prOject-IrOc

Sorry its kinda long....

I think it was a friday, few weeks back, i was up early so after taking a friend to work, i decided to go find something to feed the roc. After driving around mesa for about an hour with no luck, as i go through the light at power and main, i see this little civic (bodykit, fastnfurious lookin *****) sittin in the turning lane , about to go my way. So as i go by him through the intersection i put it in neutral an give him a lil rev. Not thinkin anymore about it, i continue to look for a mustang. I get up to the next light and i see a mustang fly through the yellow light. so i turn right and begin to chase him. Unfortunately, he made it just through all the other yellow lights by the mall, and i got stuck at everyone of them. Lo and behold, that blue civic rolls right up beside me. I hold the brake n start givin the car a lil gas to jus squeek the tires.....i look over and him an his friend are laughing..

light turns green, i nail it and put 2 cars on him instantly.. but he doesnt fall back anymore. next light (southern & higley), he pulls up again, and starts revving on me hard...they look over and im the one laughing this time. light turns green....same thing....2 cars instantly..

finally i decide to turn right an he follows, as he cruises up on my side, he yells out to me, "What you do to that thing?"
I tell him..."It's stock...cept for the muffler..."
He asks again....same tone..."What you do to that thing?" ...
i say a lil louder..."IT's STOCK....."
He says..."I beat them things all the time"....
I say...."you must have been racing the 305's....i got a 350..."
He then turns around in disbelief and i continue home...very satisfied.


:sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: the ricers will never learn...

Dan88IrocZ

Seems like he has a respectable civic though. Still, you put him in his place.

prOject-IrOc

yah, i have to give him credit....his car was fast....

but still....you want muscle...buy a muscle car...

lolz

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Wonder what kinda power adder he had. Nice win anyway, but imports aren't worth it IMO, its better to just ignore them, as if they didn't matter at all, which they don't.

MinionII

I like that 'looking for a mustang'.

They pretty much are the direct competition. I'm amazed at the 60' times I see from the camaros...that 3 link works hella better than my crappy 4 link, plus you can turn corners...kinda makes me want one, and I've been learning a lot on this board. My brother really wants one, and I've been steering him to the 87-89 TPI 305, or the 90+ with the cam option. Mods would come slow so might as well start with a decent car. 5spd definitely. I find the options more varied and confusing on the maros...all 5.0 stangs are the same, but you've got diff exhausts, gears, cams, the whole bit. I'm learnin' though!

MinionII

look out for the bloody SRT4...there still are a few fast ones, the **** really isn't worth the gas.

prOject-IrOc

a 3rd gen in the makin...

go with the 350 though...IMO i would take 350 w/auto over 305 w/manual any day....

others may disagree.....

but even more others will agree...
lol

Dan88IrocZ

I'd take a 305 5 speed over a stock 350 700r4. Why? 305 TPI 5 speeds were only 10hp slower than 350's from the factory.

jbonz28

since my 86 roc was so tragically killed, i am looking for either 305 5speed or 350 and i wont settle for anything less both will be a big improvment over the previous roc

CamaroFreak406

That just means the 350 was more underrated that the 305.

Later, Garrett

MinionII

Your joking right....the 305 TPI 5spds were rated at 230 and 300 weren't they? I'm a little biased, but I though stock to stock a 5.0 GT mustang would outrun a 5spd TPI 305 camaro...am I wrong?
I was reading the curb weights on f-body.org, and the camaros seem to be right about the same weight?
I really don't know a lot about camaros yet, but I'm learning.

EFI 5.0 is rated 225@~4400, 300@3000. I know the bore/stroke of the ford shortblock is a better power producer, but the heads are CRAP along with the intake.

I think both ford and chevy made a really nice street motor with there 5 liter feul injected engines. It never ceases to amaze me how much torque you get with the TPI intake. It takes a really built ford 347 stroker to match the torque out of your 'mild' L98 TPI build.

I'm just here to learn! I like both cars.

prOject-IrOc

but...as the sig says....90 Iroc - 5.7 auto, 245 hp/345 tq - stock.
i eat stock mustangs all day. they gotta put some money into thier cars....or they have no chance.
90 Iroc 5.0 manual, 230 hp/300 tq - stock.
gets eaten by stock mustangs, daily.

no offense to you 5.0'ers (unless you drive a mustang), but there is no way i would take the 5.0 over mine.

beating mustangs is my reason for living.

jbonz28

i dont think the tpi 5.0 would get walked 5.0 5speed vs 5.0 5speed is a drivers race while 5.7 vs. 5.0 fox (stock) should result is an *** reeming by the 5.7 way too much torque for the stang but the 5.0s in 5speed form is a close race

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Well I have never had a problem with the newer Mustang GT 4.6's. The 5.0 Foxes on the other hand make good power. The one I had a couple years back would eat an LS1 alive. And did on a couple occasions.

But overall for style and handling. Comfort too I would rather have my 305TPI Trans-AM any day of the week.

However I will go hunting for Ponies as soon as I get a 383.

MinionII

You musta had some serious mods into it...a 5.0 mustang might take it for the first 100 feet, but an ls1 will rip by 2 seconds later.

I own a 5.0GT vert, with full exhaust and an intake. It's too heavy to be fast, but I have beaten a TPI 305 5spd coupe. I don't doubt the 350 TPI could hang me out to dry. Those things make SERIOUS torque. I'm impressed.

Handling I 100% agree. TQ arm PHB from the factory? That is simply awesome.

Style, well obviousely my taste is mustangs, but I've seen plenty of NICE camaros.

How are camaros for build quality? I have heard they can be rattle traps. And also, the seating in the camaro is much more laid back?

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I'm glad to see that you wanna learn and are interested in Camaros. That is not true, I've been in many Camaros that are kept nice that are nowhere near that description, even with our tight suspension for handling. If any car is uncared for that will happen. IMO go with an 87-92 350 TPI Auto G92 or an 89-92 305 TPI 5-Speed G92. The later 305's did get close and they are good engines but make no mistake, they are not 350's, which are just better engines for building, power, and being faster stock. The Chevrolet 5.0 and F*rd 5.0 (4.9L really) are very different. The F*rd 302 is a little more like a Chevy 350. (and the Chevy 302) The 350 5.7L will obviously make more power over a 305 mod for mod and also have a higher capability. For real power and the most fun, the 350 is the way to go.

lockdude

No rattles in mine, and the seating makes the car "feel" huge compared to the 'stangs....I kinda like my 305, 'cause it's no longer stock, and saying "my 305 can beat you" is fun I'm a dead heat with the turbo 'stang on a roll, but I need a new rear before I can beat him from a stop: lotsa smoke and no motion
And nothing beats running you're own gears!

prOject-IrOc

my car does have a number of shakes and rattles...specially at high speed. but, it still has the stock suspension, and i have wrecked it before. body was restored, but im sure it didnt help my rattling problem.

seating is great if there is no more than 2 people. im 6'4, so my seat is alllll the way back. i have had 9 people in my car though. VERY, VERY Uncomfortable ride to the bowling alley, but we made it ok.

on another note, i have never been beaten by any stock mustang. i havent raced a 03' gt yet, but eagerly await the day. the only form of a mustang that gives me troubles is the cobra. i have lost to a black 98 cobra, and i have beaten a 97 cobra. i raced a couple of the early 90's cobra's, when they had the old box style, but they are always modded to hell and beat me by a car length or so...

Josh

MinionII

HAHA...I see you cencored the word Ford....

Yeah the Ford 4.95 liter (close enough...come on ) has a 4 inch bore, whereas the chevy 305 has a 3.8? and a longer stroke...the bore/stroke ratio of the ford makes it a better HP builder, whereas the chev is better for torque. BUT, the long runner intake on the ford builds plenty of lowend. The TPI intake I think is even longer, further strengthening the low end power production on the chevy. In a mustang, the best shift points are around 52-5500. On a stock camaro, where is the shift point? Under 5000 right?

If the creak and rattle rumor isn't true, I'll have to rethink my options. I'm considering selling my 91 GT vert. I want something that is good all year round in all weather.

I MUST have a 5spd. Is the swap to T5 easy? I figured the hydralic clutch would make it very difficult and expensive?

I love the factory 3 link, and some camaros have rear disks! It is soooo expensive to properly put disks on a Fox, and let's not start on the suspension swap.


Maybe I'll keep the 91 GT vert for the summer, and grab a coupe to play with the rest of the year. Kinda hard to afford at my age, and I DO want to go to school at some point.

Need4Speed1387

I'm 6'4" too and i can't stand to have anyone in my back seat!!! 9 people?!?!? is that a mistype?!?! no way 9 people could be in a 4 person (yeah right) car. your suspension would be soo bottomed out too!! please explain....

BadBowtie88

The 5.0 has some excellent qualities. But, it really depends on whose driving it. The fastest "factory" 5.0 I've seen went 14.91 at the track, not saying they aren't faster, but that's all I've personally seen. Now I have also seen 5.0's run 15.6's, b/c the driver didn't know his *** from a whole in the ground. The notorious 305 that I like to refer to as a wonderful boat anchor is a different story. Quite a few people on this site have made this motor very fast. One says he runs low 11's even. Very impressive. They are making due with what they have, I like that. However, I've yet to personally see a 305 break past a 15.35 at the track, 5-spd or auto. IMO it's just easier to run faster with a 350 or 302.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Find an L98 car with lower miles and swap in a good manual if you want, not a T-5. You could always manually shift the 700R4. It is alot better than the AOD your guys might be used to, especially when built. Again, the 350 is the way to go, no SB makes TQ like a TPI 350. If you know how to build engines, throw in a 400 crank and get your 383 on. Incredible power. IMO if you get in a good L98 Camaro you'd want 1 by the way you sound.

lockdude

They're gonna blast me for this, but it sounds like you just need a daily driver. I'd say keep the vert, even if it is a 'stang, and get something cheap for the weekdays. Keeping the daily driver cheap leaves you money to turn the vert into something that'll demand respect. Trying to run 2 street rods is more than the average person can afford(especially since you mentioned school).

BadBowtie88

I agree with lockdude, unless you just have some cash layin around unused. You need to pick between the Iroc and the Stang. If you try to keep both, you'll be broke all the time trying to get both of them where you want them. I have an '89 honda accord for my work ride. Do I like it? No. But, I can go a little over week before having to fill it up, and I drive 30 miles to work and 30 miles back every day. Just depends on what you want, and noone can decide for you. Manual trans are fun, 302, 305, or 350. But, if you start getting into serious power, remember, unless you got some cash for a T-56, you'll go through trannys like a fat woman through an all you can eat buffet.

MinionII

I never plan to build a strip car. I have no strip anywhere near me. I live on Vancouver Island., and the nearest 1/4 is like 100mi and a ferry ride away. (Mission, B.C.)

I've really been thinking of selling the vert, as it has qualities I really dislike. It is still flexing over driveway entrances, and rattles too much over tracks and bumps. I already welded 5'6" long 2.5x1.5x1/8 inch pieces of steel to the bottom in an attempt to get this under control. I think I may have super hard cut springs, my car is about 2" low. Am I giving up too soon? Should I get new springs/shocks, and somemore frame stiffening (K-brace, STBrace)? I could get a custom inner liner installed to help with the top noise, road noise, and coldness.

I'm really torn. I wouldn't ever get any money back if I did all the above, and if it didn't work I wouldn't be too happy. Plus the car weighs 3660 with me, a full tank, and my stereo in it. I geuss I could downgrade the stereo, and get alum heads in the future. That should bring it down to under 3600. But still...

I don't want to bring it up to stock hieght. You guys I'm sure know that stock mustangs look like 4x4's.




So, what are the optimal shift points on a stock 305 TPI? I was thinking they would be less than an SEFI 5.0l?


thanks a lot for listening guys.

prOject-IrOc

sell the f-word. (not ***) lolz
if you want a good 3rd gen, buy a late iroc. you will probably have a few problems with it, unless you put some money into it (tranny, cooling system, tires going bald too fast ), but despite all that, i don't think i could ever get rid of it. i l*ve my car.
i know i can fix anything that ever breaks if i jus fix it slowly.
if you REALLY can't afford the Iroc right now, drive the stang, and save for the Iroc

hell, keep the stang, let your friends borrow it, race em, and enjoy whoopin a mustang whenever you want...

im not sure on the shift points...for the 305 that is.

Me


oh yah, my car weighs 3600 with me in it. it handles it well.


Edited: cause i forgot sumptin..why else?:

prOject-IrOc

Quote:

9 people?!?!? is that a mistype?!?! no way 9 people could be in a 4 person (yeah right) car. your suspension would be soo bottomed out too!! please explain....

6 in the back (2 on 2 on 2), driver, passenger (seats almost all the way foward), and one tiny chick laying half in the middle console and half on the passengers lap. they were all drunk, and needed a ride to the bowling alley, so it was pretty fun. lol.

yah, im sure the car was saggin low, but i didn't get out to see it. i do remember scraping really hard pullin into the bowling alley though.

Dan88IrocZ

I walk all over 5.0's now, I've left 3 in the dust since my car come out of storage.

Don't be afraid of the 03 GT's either. Race'em from a light and you got'em. They are so overrated for HP, and their TQ blows really bad.

Majority of the 03 GT owners here are all muscle-head jocks, no offense lol. But they all buy their cars with Daddies credit and drive it like they stole it.

I lined up with a black 03 GT that had been hunting me for a couple of nights, and I didn't want to run until I learned more about them. Finally he caught me at a set of lights and I pulled him 3 lengths at the lights and he couldn't catch up any. We lined up twice and both races were the same.

MinionII

Hmmm...my car weighs about 3650 with a full tank, me, and the 75lbs of bass in the trunk. Race weight would be something like 3530 or so.

I've heard stories about how horrible it is to do plug changes and routine type maintenance on the f-body. That stuff true? In my car, I can reach each sparkplug with ease. Even with the headers roasting hot, I have enough clearance not to burn myself.

I geuss it's just the flexibility and rattles/squeaks I don't like, and the coldness in the mornings and roadnoise. I have 2000 bucks of stereo gear in the car, and it doesn't sound good once I start driving. The roadnoise just overcomes it.

I have a line on a 91GT hatch, don't know the mods, but at least it would weigh about 300lbs less with driver gas and whatnot. But then I'd still have the crappy fourlink rear...


What were the EPA feul economy numbers for the various models of TPI camaros?

Black 91 Z28

Changing plugs isn't fun. They do take a while and I'd never try to change them with hot headers. I'd say get a L98 but I'm biased :-)

David

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Nah, changing plugs on a 4th Gen isn't fun, Thirds are easier because our engines aren't in our dashes.

L98's are rated at like 16/26 MPG, they're pretty good. LB9's should get about 2 MPG better both ways, but as always, its really how you drive.

jbonz28

changing plugs with stock exhaust manifolds = no fun
just get a set of headers and its a breeze

BadBowtie88

Correct.

MinionII

Well, I test drove a 91GT hatchback to replace my 91GT vert, and no go. The car was not worth half the asking price. It rattled and squeeked more than my vert!

So, I'm really opening my mind and seriousely considering the 3rd gen TPI cars. I think I have to have a 5spd though. So, prehaps an L98 car than a 5spd swap.

Hmmm...me and my bro would both be driving camaros.

BadBowtie88

I like it...

lockdude

Don't know what brand of headers came with my '83, but I have to totally unbolt them to get to 2 of my plugs

BadBowtie88

Wow, that sucks dude. I had $100 Flowtech 1 1/2 headers on my '88 and it was a little tough with the stock heads. When I put on my other heads though they were angle plug heads and changing them was a snap.

lockdude

That sounds good to me. Can you PM me with a brand, pic, and performance specs on those heads?

jeff1367

iTrader: (1)

You should sell all that stereo equipment and mod the mustang or buy an f-body and dump the leftover money into it. With 2 grand, you could get that stang into the high 12s, low 13s!

prOject-IrOc

soundz like the ONLY choice to me....hehe

i don't have headers (yet). i have done about 4 or 5 tuneups to my car since i have had it. With the stock manifolds, they aren't too bad. If you have a swivel, and a couple long extensions, changin' the plugs shouldn't be a problem at all. i don't have to get under the car to do it.

Josh (dE.fUsEd)

MinionII

I'm actually trying to sell a JL 15W3, and an Alpine 1507 as a set. I should get some decent coin, as the sub is unused, and the amp barely used. Can't fit them in my trunk! I'm also selling a pair of JL 10W1's in a box, and a clarion 400.2 amp as well.
I just don't need that much extra weight in the car. I'm going to go to a single 10w3 with a good class D, so I get lots of output with like a quarter the weight.

This isn't an add... :lala:
No one in the states would want this stuff..the price would be to high, considereing the exchange right now.

I haven't settled on a decision yet, but I'm going to do a little cosmetic work on the vert and throw in a clutch. I just need to make it stop rattling. If it was dead quite driving down the road, I wouldn't consider selling it. Not many vert gt's in great shape rolling around these days. People buy em, beat the crap out of them, then try to sell them for 4x there value.