Why is a 302 better that Chevy's 305?
Easy,the 305 is one of Chevy's very very rare bad engine ideas.

Like somebody eles said Chevy had a 302ci small block that was great! it hade a 4" bore like the 350 and thats part of what makes it so much better.

The size of the bore in relation to the total displacement must be proportioned in a balanced way.

LOL,like a buddy of mine once said"a 305 is a retarded 350" and thats true the 305 lacks a critical design feature.

Engines with a strokes from 50% of or equal to their bore are among the most effective power producers,just look at what the Nascar Goodies Dash guys can get a 4.3L V6 to do.

Unlike the 305 the 4.3L or 262ci V6 has a 4" bore and is a more balanced power producer that a 305 and can be made to out preform a 305.

Another example of this is the Caddy. 500ci,boy did that thig suck with out tons of work.

The best way to deal with all of this is the just bore every thing out as much as you can

 

About an hr. and 10 mins so what does that mean? I said hook me up with someone that you personnaly know......Also I don't think that thing is street driven!

 

1. That may be street driven, but 4 wheels and a spin around the block doesn't make it a street car. John Force could do the same... so that would qualify as a street car? That is a purely dedicated drag car.

2. 8.47@167 - Um... no. Technically he did run that time, BUT it was with an illegal setup. He hasn't come within 7 MPH since. I know Chris Little and his stang that run with Big Daddy.
3. He runs in NMRA for a reason. If he went over to NMCA, he would get his butt kicked. They have several quicker drag radial cars (with extremely similar rules) running tenths quicker, legally. Oh, and the quickest happens to be a SBC Nova

 

Not really.

You have to remember how heavy 3rdgens are. My car with driver and half a tank weighs 3542 pounds. If I had lighter car I would agree totally but the 3rdgeners need the tq to get rolling.

Unrealated but Rx how are the little rotary engines in the early 80's mazada trucks? I can pick one up cheap that would be good for a dd.

 

There is a dude in NJ running a Chevy block in the 5's. I think he was just mentioned a few posts up, set a track record at E-Town. I know a few dudes in the 7's that will be in the 6's soon also. I have to agree, here on the streets all the fast cars and cars to look out for are Chevy's, all of them.

You see more 80's M*****gs than Third Gens fast at tracks and a big aftermarket for that particular engine because in all honesty, there were alot more 5.0's made than L98's and TPI cars in general, ALOT more, and they're cheaper to mod. Yes there is an even bigger aftermarket for the 350, but not for TPI because of its price. If you think that a person that knows what they're doing couldn't make a 350 faster and easier/cheaper than a 5.0, you're mistaken. It all depends how its done.

It is true that the Chevy is used over F**d in practically every kind of racing. I know a former NHRA racer, now a performance builder for all makes and a great mechanic, he ONLY uses Chevy designs still in the cars he builds. After all, Chevrolet is the winningest brand in racing history. Notice how you'll see F**ds (and other makes too) with Chevy engines but never a Chevrolet with a F**d engine or any other. Ask a long time builder, they'll say you can have a F**d, just make sure you put in a Chevy engine if you're serious. Its almost like the 9" discussion, although I see alot of people running different rear axles too.

Speaking of good 302's, the best to ever leave the factory was the Chevy 302!! Rated at 290HP but made more like 400HP!! The 67-69 Z28 with its 302, great handling, braking, and all around performance, still holds the record for most wins in its class in SCCA Trans-Am, it beat all the other competitors back then.

 

the answer to this question is much simpler than you think.....

there arent many small block chevys in the 6's......wanna know why? Because we were graced with such things as the big block chevy.....we dont have to make small block chevys run 6's hhuhahuhauhuahuhuauhhauhaua :rockon: :hail:

seriously though, they run 6s on small block fords because big block fords are pretty sh*tty for the most part, really really expensive to build....and the reason they do that to the small fords is ford arrogance.....theres no need to be that tough on yourself.....but they want to use a ford motor.

chevy guys say, hey i wanna run 6's guess i'll go get a big block, put a big crank, big pistons and a big blower on it and use some methanol and make 2000hp. Does that sound really really simple? thats because for the most part it is that simple (except how much the parts cost) good example is doug coles monster truck, blown thunder....540ci donovan chevy with an 8-71 bds blower running on methanol.....the blower is only overdriven 10% (thats the rule in our race sanctioning body, ProMT) we actually suck we only make like 1500hp cause we're poor lol.

 

Correct. Many that wanna go incredibly fast just go to BBC's instead for the extra ci.

 

true....id say its probably only 2/3 the cost of doing the same with a small block as well.

the only people ive seen with really great big block fords are the 'foot team guys.....and i dont even wanna know what they spend on those motors.

 

Fellas, fellas....

This is getting a bit silly. Ford's 302 is a great motor. Chevy's 350 is a great motor. Hard to beat either of them when it comes to modability. There are many thousands of fast cars with both engines. 95% of the crap in here is due to brand loyalty and not a well researched opinion. I've tried to research this topic and from all in the chevy camp I hear that the 350 is the cheaper, easier, and better way to make a car go fast. Guess what I hear from the guys in the ford camp? After all of the research I did, I haven't found a definitive answer, but I honestly couldn't be happier with my choice and I'll put it up to any buddy's SBC.....Dan.

I say: to each, their own. There are so many ways to build a fast car. It doesn't simply come down to cubic inches as some so blindly would lead you to believe, but it's also not as simple as looking at the revability of the motor, either. There are so many factors in making a fast motor that the real truism in making a car fast can be summed from two variables: money, and ingenuity. Both Chevy and Ford provide an engine platform to start from that is cheap and has immense potential. The aftermarket on both of them is equally as huge with either brand. I love ford, but I am not so naive as to try to prove that they are superior in every single aspect of a performance car.

I think the original point of this thread should not be taken further than it was meant to. I believe it was more a comparison between the 5 liter motors than of the 350 and the 302. I'm not sure what my fellow stangers here are trying to prove. This hardly seems the place for such a debate.

FWIW, I accept that the 350 is a great motor. In fact, I had one in the form of a 1990 GMC suburban when I was in highschool.....Oh, and all the times that I got to drive the corvettes dad had over the years.... They won't be my last experience with the SBC, I'm sure.

Chris

 

Its because everyone and their mom makes turbo kits for Fox body mustangs. I really wish more companies would start making them for sbc applications

 

so if both a ford 302 person and a chevy 350 person had an infinite amount of money to spend on their cars, they most likely would end up runnin close to the same times?

 

More ci = more power. If they were both done the same, the 350 would be faster.

 

I have never really understood why people think Chevy motors are better than ford and vice versa. The only problem I have is with the damn distributors being in the front, its just ugly lol.

 

Mustangs are very popular whereas thirdgens are not, and I believe that explains why there are so many more modded stangs around. Mustangs also have a great forced induction aftermarket to chose from whereas thirdgens really dont (no turbo stuff). TPI isnt really a great building block for a race car either. I like to think of thirdgens as motor swap cars. I swapped my LG4 and 200c for a real motor and tranny, not many other thirdgenners have that option due to smog laws.

 

It's easy as hell to do a tuneup when it's right in front. Every time i see a distributor in the back I cringe at the thought of climbing on the engine to change a cap and rotor and wires.

Any of you guys ever do a tuneup on a dodge ram? The dist. is in the back...right under the lip of the cowl. I had to sit on the engine and fight just to change the wires. I didn't even bother with the cap and rotor...i already had enough cuts

 

haha i give you that much. that and if you get a nice distributor like an MSD pro billet its not as bad. hell i with i could see more of my pro billet lol.

 

So then it follows that a chevy 305 will outdo a ford 302 "if they were both done the same?" You are a brand loyalist and one of the blind I mentioned in my post.

It doesn't come down to CI alone. First, you can't do them both the same. You can't put the same heads and cam in both and see which comes out on top. Hell, the fast 350s don't deliver fuel the same way - Carbed vs. Fuel injection..... Both have their merits and their drawbacks, and an aftermarket that has taken them two different directions. This is why there are SBFs running 6s where SBCs do not. Second, you have to consider other factors like the revability of the motor, and how much power can the motor take before it destroys itself? If all aspects of a motor are the same, and assuming the motor can handle any amount of power, then yes more ci does = more power, but don't quote that from me without quoting this: In the real world you can't assume all else will be the same and that a motor can handle any amount of power. Those two assumptions are rarely valid.

Chris

 

That's a hard question to answer because it's too vague. In a way, yes. You'd have to set some ground rules. If you were to stay with the stock blocks, the question would become: which makes the most power before the block splits? If you go completely into the realm of the aftermarket, I'm not really sure what's out there on the high end of the chevy aftermarket, but there are aluminum 302 blocks capable of pushing 1000+ HP and there are people blowing them up. As has been unanswered in the thread, there are SBFs running mid 6s with no SBC around. Does that mean that the Chevies can't do it? Of course not. There's no magical ingredient that Ford has and that Chevy doesn't. It's just more practical to push an SBF to that extreme than it is to push a SBC. I don't think anyone can answer the question, "how far could you go with infinite money."

Chris

 

Think again. Maybe you should read some of my other posts on this subject even in other topics.

We already know the 305 is not a fair match against a 302. The 350 and 302 are close but the 350 will make more power mod for mod. You are not gonna see alot of SBC's in the 6's when there are good BBC's to use instead, it just makes more sense.

 

The point is that your statement "more ci = more power" is wrong. That isn't the case with the 305 vs. the 302, and neither is it the case with the 302 vs the 350. The 350 may indeed have more potential, though it apparently hasn't been realized on the high end of performance, but it isn't as simple as cubic inches. I think you made that claim directly to spite of my earlier post, it obviously an incorrect assertion, and that is why I'm shooting it down.

We need to get rid of the slogan, "there is no replacement for displacement." Whomever said that was a fool or too emotionally attached to the big blocks of yore, because the statement leaves itself too open to interpretation. There are too many replacements: Nitrous, superchargers, turbos, motor design. The only way this works is if you go back to the unacceptable assumption that the engines are otherwise exactly the same. If you keep doing this, the assertion becomes useless because you have to live in a world of speculation instead of the world of racing.

Chris

 

Yes, I agree. And I know the Chevy AND F**d 302's are good, deceptive engines. Better than some with higher displacement. But I didn't make that statement based on displacement alone, I meant it just between those 2 engines. Since I know the 350 and 302 are close, but the 350 has more displacement, mod for mod, dollar for dollar, the 350 wins. It was an answer to the question "what would happen if you modded both the same" or something like that a few posts up. We should say it more like, if both engines are nearly equal, good performance designs, (350, 302) then there will be no replacement for displacement, N/A that is.

 

Fair enough . When it comes to dollars and engines on a stand, it's very hard to beat the old carbed 350s that chevy put out, but I don't think it impossible. If there is another engine to build as cheaply it has to be the 302. To reiterate, IMO there is no reason to think that Ford's 302 Windsor is a superior engine design, that, I think, was the crux of the debate here, though that was never the point of the thread. The thread was supposed to be an explanation of the weaknesses in the 305 and the comparison of the 302 and the 350.

If I had to directly compare the 302 vs. the 350, I'd say the most signficant difference between these two motors, as I see it, is the length of the stroke. The 302's advantage will be it's ability to rev higher than the 350. With all forged internals, stock, and a slower piston speed at any given RPM, the 302 is not without it's advantages. It naturally should be capable of revving higher than the 350. This, in fact was the point of this engine design in it's incarnation as the Boss 302 - I know that the Boss 302 had cleveland style heads, but I'm pointing out that the bore and stroke along with it's forged internals are what truly let this car accel on the track, just as the 302 windsor should theoretically have the same advantages. This is exactly why you see the really mean 302s running 9s, and even 8s N/A are running huge rpm - 9 - 10k rpm. The advantages of the 350's added displacement are obvious and substantial. It's extra displacement can create a higher force for each stoke of the piston. This doesn't make it in less need of strong internals, though because in this application it may not need to turn as fast, but even so the same amount of power at less rpm requires more piston force and hence more force must be absorbed by the internals of the motor.

Now, as to which is less expensive to build. As I stated in my first reply to this thread, the answer differs with each person that you meet. I can say with 50% () certainty that the chevy is. It's advantages are that it has been put in countless vehicle platforms over 50 years, carbs are usually cheaper (though more troublesome) than fuel injection systems, and it has a substantial aftermarket following. The ford's advantages are that currently its aftermarket is even larger than the chevy's, and it's easy to turbocharge fuel injected cars. Both have been around long enough to establish recipes for any power level you will ever practically want. Both have been around long enough to find parts in any junkyard in America. The practical answer is that the cost difference at a given performance level is irrelevant because the two are so close that if you can afford to build one, you can afford to build the other.

For 99% of the car enthusiasts using the stock factory blocks, there's no need to go this in-depth because In the world of factory blocks, both start self-destructing at 600 hp, at which point the cost difference is still negligable. I think the truth of the matter is that it comes down to which car you would rather be seen in.
______________________________

The debate gets even nastier and more convoluted when you include the platforms that these engines come in. The weight advantage in the mustang vs. the ugliness of the camaro . The choice in platforms is obvious, and I begin to like the 302 more and more:hail:

Jus' teasin' :lala: ,

Chris

 

Now you say that there no replacement for displacement, However when you artificially enhance the breathing characteristics you've essentially altered the cubic inches. By going forced induction you are making that low cu.in. motor seem like a larger one. With 18 psi my little 231 moves just as much air as a 468 BB, however that is FI and not what the thread was about in the first place.

So you see the slogan does hold true!


:lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala:

 

12smustang......im not sure if you read all the posts in this thread or not, but i think i pretty much layed out why the 302 seems to go past the SBC in alot of cases. here it is again in case you didnt see it.

 

This just proved my point, thank you!

AS far as the 350 verse 302, it goes like this. The fast carbed small blocks will mostly be SBC. The fast fuel injected motors will most likely be SBF. The 350 has been making great and cheap power for many years and there are so many around is one reason they are great motors and seem to be very popular. But when you start talking late model performance, the 302 Ford has the market cornered. If you want to build a cheap and reliable 12 second motor, that can pass an emissions test and retain fuel injection, most guys will choose a 302 Ford. Why, because the aftermarket is HUGE and the fact that with a simple heads, cam and intake you could run easy 12s on street tires, makes it desirable.

Sure a 350 TPI can do the same but it will cost you more, and the best route to go is a carbed 350, but in a newer car, we have moved past carbs to make power, and now we can do it while getting good gas mileage and being very reliable.

I have heard that the Ford 302 of now has been compared to the Chevy 350 of the 60s and 70s. They compare thefact that with the technology of the day these two motors in their time are the best. The 350 Chevy is still a great motor, but for a fast street car with good manners and the ability to run good numbers reliably the Ford 302 is the motor to have!

 

I'm not really sure what that has to do with what I said. Your assertion is logical, but not convincing because at the higher end of racing everything becomes assininely sponsored. People at that level make decisions for money. It usually comes down to whomever gives the money or equipment to the team. That's why nobody runs dodge in nascar. Its not that their engines or cars suck, it's that they didn't pursue that type of racing actively and fell so far behind that it's impractical to step in without a boat-load of money. I don't see too many ford sponsored teams in the NHRA, but there are some fast fords there, nonetheless. I know that they don't win, but I think that's due more to the number of Chevies than inability of Ford design teams.

How much better are the Chevies than the Fords in Drag Racing, anyway? Pro 5.0 is in the mid 6s with FORD small blocks. Top Fuel dragsters are in the 4s at the true peak of engine performance. That gap may seem pretty wide, but not when you consider that in the last ten years Top Fuel has still been in the 4s and Pro 5.0 has moved from high 8s to mid 6s. So what are those badass SBCs and even BBCs running over in the NHRA?

I think this conversation has moved passed the point of practical discussion on the 302 vs 350 debate because just like the cars at that level, the engines are no longer true SBCs and SBFs in the way that we see them on the street. They don't mark the potential for us on the streets because there are certainly no 6 or 7 second streetable small blocks on the road for a sunday cruise. When the envelope can be pushed that far with both types of engines, that the result is too far from reality to mean anything.

Chris

 

well not really you see,

because that perspective was meant to illustrate an advantage in design between the major engines.

its not just about who sponsors you, because we dont have a sponsor. When your into the professional level you use the best regardless of cost in most cases. and you just dont see the fords there.

its not because ford doesnt sponsor people....chevy doesnt sponsor 99% of the people that use their equipment, nor does dodge sponsor the majority of top fuelers who are using hemis.

while its true that pro 5.0 has progressed from 8's to 6's and top fuel has remained where it is, there is a good reason for that. First of all, regulations severely limit what the teams can do, and they are limited to 500ci which isnt much considering the make 6000hp. they are also limited by traction. Finally, its not a linear progression....its not as if going from 8's to 6s is the same as going from 4's to 2's......its an exponential function, not a linear one.

but as i said, it was just to provide a perspective on the advantages of using certain engine platforms. Teams use them because they perform, not because they are sponsored to do so in most cases. because its all about winning. I was trying to use that point to shed some light on the sbc vs sbf debate.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 12sMustang
[B]...The thread was supposed to be an explanation of the weaknesses in the 305 and the comparison of the 302 and the 350.QUOTE]

Boy did my simple observation get you all thinking...

In all actuality the thread is supposed to be a presentation of the "engineered flaws" present in the Chevy 305 in relation to it's big brother the 350 and the 302 Ford.

The early 80's marked a change at GM. That was when they decided to have total "corporate" powertrains. ie all divisions (Buick, Chevy, Olds, Pontiac, etc) were to use 305 or 350 Chevy V-8s in lieu of there own divisions power plants. Therefore if you are a GM guy on a budget you build a 350 Chevy since there is a larger aftermarket for parts. Other choices are available and some of them are cheaper to build than you might think. The next engine I build will be the one that truly deserves to be between the framerails of my '88:

455 Pontiac
Weight (lbs) 650

Bore 4.151 Stroke 4.21 Cylinders 8
Displacement (Cubic inches) 455.79 Displacement (Liters) 7.47
Rod Length 6.625 Rod/Stroke Ratio 1.57 Bore/Stroke Ratio 0.99

Rev Limits
4,988 RPM Stock short block with cast crank
5,558 RPM Forged crank and heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect)
7,838 RPM Forged crank, rods, pistons, heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect), and studs(head & main caps)

It is not a high reving engine but it makes LOTS of torque!!!

 

383backinblack,

Well, I'm sorry, but I don't see the relevence in the argument from what racing teams use to what I should. What is it exactly in the design of the 350 that seperates it from SBFs? Lets see, 4" bore, 3.48 inch stroke vs a 4" bore and a 3" stroke in the 302s and a 3.5" stroke in the 351s. Well if it ain't that, it must be in the aftermarket, but whoops, the best aftermarket components are not from the manufacturers. So where is the mythological design expertise in the Chevy small block? Hint: This is a trick question.

Chris

Ps. Combustion engines have not changed dramatically, with the exception of the rotary motor, in about a hundred years. And, if there were something magical that chevy did to their motors, ford would have ripped them off long ago and made their own design the same way. So unless you can give me some more concrete evidence of design dominance than the fact that people way up high (with chevrolet stickers on the sides of their cars) use chevy motors and win in a class full of other chevy motors, there is no more to argue about.

 

This is kinda funny. I just wen't to google and typed in: "ford vs. chevy debate" and found that the way it is used now is to define a situation where the debate is pointless. Basically, the phrase "ford vs. chevy debate" to popular culture has been around for so long with neither side at a clear advantage that the term now represents and is defined as a pointless and unending argument. I would like for once, for a ford and chevy debate to come to the conclusion on both sides that the true debate is about the brand loyalty and not the true design. I am utterly convinced that neither Ford's Windsor series nor Chevy's SBs have a clear design advantage over the other.

Chris

 

hehe, maybe thats true........But what about big blocks!!! lol

im just messing with you man, on the fundamental level at the street driven car there is no clear undeniable advantage. at least for small blocks

 

"Ps. Combustion engines have not changed dramatically, with the exception of the rotary motor, in about a hundred years. And, if there were something magical that chevy did to their motors, ford would have ripped them off long ago and made their own design the same way. So unless you can give me some more concrete evidence"

The first serious attempt at a commercially viable V-8 was by De Dion around 1910. Cadillac examined this design as well as the Hall-Scott aero engine, and released their vastly superior engine in September 1914.

Cadillac is generally regarded as having the first successful production V-8 engine. They were also the first to introduce an inherently balanced V-8 (quartered crankshaft with integral counterweights vs. a flat 4 cylinder crank). However, none of these were OHV designs.

In 1917 Henry Leland, the former head of Cadillac, started the Lincoln Motor Company.

In 1927 the last of the Model Ts were built. (4-cylinder)

Ford came out with their V-8 engines in 1934. The "FLAT HEAD" V-8.

Chevrolet briefly produced a 265 CID OHV V-8, from 1917 to 1919

The Oldsmobile Over-Head-Valve (OHV) Rocket V-8 was first produced in 1949 and was the first to be produced in a sustainable quantity. This engine was big in NASCAR, in fact the "Rocket V-8" won 8 out of 10 races in 1950. This engine had a number of interesting features: overhead valvetrain, hydraulic lifters, oversquare bore-stroke ratio, forged crank with counterweights, aluminum pistons, full-floating wrist-pins, and a dual plane intake manifold. (Sounds Familiar???)

In 1957 Olds released the J-2 Golden Rocket. This was a 371 inch engine with a six-pack that put out 312 horses.

The first Ford OHV V-8 was produced in 1954.

In 1955, Chevrolet began producing the 283 CID OHV V-8.

Looks like GM got the ball rolling early on... Although Ford's flat head V-8 was a good engine the "Olds Rocket" ran circles around it.

Indeed a major dramatic change took place only 54 years ago with the introduction of the Olsmobile OHV V-8.

 

Thank you for that correction, FRMULA88.

I suppose I should straighten my facts out before I try to make a dramatic statement. My apologies, and correction:

Combustion engines have not changed dramatically, with the exception of the rotary motor, in about 54 years. And, if there were something magical that chevy did to their motors, ford would have ripped them off long ago and made their own design the same way.

Oh, and after all the ruckus over small blocks, I'm not touching the BBs with a 10 foot pole.

Thanks for the entertaining discussion,

Chris

 

*cough* 427 D&L code - 657bhp/575lb-ft of tq *cough* *cough* 428 Super Cobra Jet - extremely underrated - held the D-pure stock national record in 1970 *cough* *cough* Damn, this cold is getting bad...

 

There are SBC's out there running in the 7's and whatever.

I think its time for this to be moved to Tech/General Engine!!

 

"*cough* 427 D&L code - 657bhp/575lb-ft of tq *cough* *cough* 428 Super Cobra Jet - extremely underrated - held the D-pure stock national record in 1970 *cough* *cough* Damn, this cold is getting bad..."

*cough*, try and find one *cough* if they were so great *cough* why doesnt anyone use them now *cough*

 

hey this is all in good fun, this is cool....

why cant all these threads be like this, without people starting trouble.

oh and as for the cobra jet and what not, zL1 427 anyone?

these were all limited production engines, and as great as they were they dont really contribute to the overall spectrum of big blocks.

Ford just never really went after the big block i couldnt tell you why, but look at what the BB chevy has to offer. there are so many to choose from.....366, 427,454,468,496,502,520,540, etc. gotta love those donovan 540's. ooooh i cant wait until they release the 572.....

 

What the hell do you do with a 572???? Jeezus that's huge.... that's a damned 9.3 liter. Damn, that's more than a liter per cylinder. Who does that.....honestly... :hail:

 

Yes....the much anticipated 572:lala:

I want mine 60 over with a 12:1 CR and a nice ram-jet on top.

"Thats a bomb" you say? but what a way to go

I'm the type of guy who can't help but put something like that in a car it really should not be in.
Don't get me wrong I'm in to being safe,just so long as it does not stop the fun.

I know I could get one in a F-body or maybe I'll hold off until I can snag a SSR(4th gen. El Camino)

 

so how about this...we'll start with a few well known engine sizes from both ford and chevy...and no, the blocks dont have to be stock....so ford 302, chevy 302, chevy 305, chevy 350, 396, 427, 454, ford 351,460 and so on....like i said b4 what if each person had an infinite amount of money to spend on his respective motor...can u really say which one is gonna come out faster?

 

its just big block man lol. if you take a 4.5" square motor, its a 572 but thats not what the new chevy is.

we are limited to 575ci by the MTRA for the truck, we were gonna make the 4.5" stroke and 4.5" bore version for next season, if we get the cash. we could nail 2000hp out of that bad boy right quick

but on the outside its the same size as a regular big block, so it will fit in pretty much anything.

the new chevy crate 572 is supposed to come in a street and a race version....the street makes about 620 hp.....and the race version is over 12:1 compression with a wilder cam and such, and makes 720hp on race gas.

i cant wait to see that thing, but i bet its gonna be huge money

 

I can't believe all of this from a couple of days. If you really want to know which small block head design is better(which is where all of the power is made), look no further than the SB2 NASCAR race head. HHHMMMMMM..... I wonder why it looks just like a Ford head. Maybe that siamesed port idea wasn't so great after all. I wonder who came up with idea to use an even spaced port design with canted valves. Oh yeah, I remember it was Ford.

If you wanna talk big blocks, all I have to say is Bob Glidden whooped everyone's *** in the '80s and 90's.

Ford stuff is hard to find and expensive because it wasn't factory backed in the aftermarket like chevy was. There are so many chevy sponsored racing series it isn't even funny anymore.

 

Think before you speak...https://www.spoperformanceparts.com/...=694&CATID=671

Have you ever seen a head like this before? Looks like a siamese bore to me. And the stock flow numbers on those are quite superior to Ford's offering
The SB2.2 is better than the older SB2. Wonder why?

 

Spread port exhaust doesnt really do anything for performance....it doesnt really change the shape of the runners that much either as opposed to a SBC head.

it does make everything symmetrical, and easier to work on though. Dodge small blocks have non-spread port exhaust too. From a performance standpoint, that doesnt really mean a whole lot....and as for the ultimate small block cylinder head, this is it.....

http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm.

32 valve small block heads anyone?

they make them for fords too

 

hmmm.....exactly.....

if ford did sponsor more racing maybe their products would improve lol.

the problem is fords Vag hurt too much to develop their big block technology, so they got worked over by chevy. :rockon:

 

On a sbc head you have to snake your way around the pushrod leaving some flow in there. A truly symmetrical head moves the exhaust runner and clearing the obstruction by the pushrod enabling a better short turn radius. Or so the theory goes.......

 

you have quite a few other motors out there that take advantage of comustion not listed also

can't remember them off the top of my head though


oh well

 

Whaaa????? Worked over? Please. Give me a 429 Boss over a silly little 454 any day of the week.

You know why chevy works so hard on developing their suff? It's because it was such crap out of the factory. Ford started with good stuff so it didn't need extensive aftermarket imporvements.

If you wanna talk about being a Vag, where's Chevy's big dog now? I guess they just got tired of being beat by the Mustang every year.

 

Settle down now...

Besides I'll take 426 Hemi any day over a Chevy or Ford...

Close 2nd would be a 455 Pontiac and the 455 Buick...

The 455 Buick is a killer motor and with alum heads weighs the same as an all iron small block...

 

The Z06 is alive and well last time I checked . Don't open that argument, because almost everyone can agree that Chevy favors the Corvette over EVERYTHING. But I guess if we're asking questions like that, why did Ford discontinue the 302?

I'm just pulling your leg man, Ford had it right with the big bore/short stroke in the 302, I'm just a little disappointed they stopped using it.

And I'll second the above comment, you can take your 429, I'll use the 426 Hemi, and we'll race, winner gets a beer . Damn I wish I could afford an engine like that.