Cruz'N Bruz'R

Coming home from a cruise night on Wednesday. Lined up with a , oh, I'd say 66-67, non split window coupe.
At the light we both launched, and I didn't see him after that, my taillights all the way.

Saw him at the car show today. It was a 327, 365hp SBC, I'm guessing all original. It was nice to run a classic instead of the usual ***** and what not.

curt86iroc

sweet kill. my dads friend has a 66 coupe with the 427. what a ride......

84CamroHO

That is definatly a refreshing win. That beats killing rice burners.

Mark A Shields

Now there's a kill. Good job.

iroc22

My Dad had a 65 with the same engine and it ran mid 13's bone stock. With slicks it's possible to hit high high 12's I bet.

fast86z28

man my dream car is a 67 vette with the 450horse 427....huge sidepipes runnin below the door...that is 1 beautiful car...

jocww

u know he wasnt trying rite?????? my uncle has a 63 stingray covert with a 327 350 hp i think and he can beat alot of cars with it and its all original downt to the shifter and lights and stuff

5.7L OF JUSTICE

If I'm not mistaken I think 67 was the first year for the stingray, I could be wrong. And just so you dont **** off any hard core Vette guys, 63 was the only year they had a split window. Just a little FYI there. Also somebody previously said the 427 had 450hp. This number is what they were rated at but in actuality they had closer to 600hp. Chevy underrated them just so they didnt sound too insane.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

1963 was the first year it was called stingray

in 1967 4 different 427's were available in the vette........
390HP
400HP
435HP
and the L88 rated at 430HP, but having an actual output close to 560HP
hope this helped



oh yeah, i would kill to have a race like this

1991tealRSt-topGuy

you do realize that Cruz'N Bruz'R has a highly modified car dont you?

also HP was calculated differently pre-1972........so in todays numbers that vette only has about 280HP

Nic

Nice! What's that beast of yours run?

nbn792

my grandfather has a green with white stripe on the hood 67 427 corvette. he has a rare one, all original including the crappy paint, tripps, side pipes, 435(old school) hp etc. the only problems with it are, bad paint, speedometer cracked, and the carbs are a little eaten away from the 1 p.o. running alki for a short time. beautiful car, takes it out on weekends, its his HE-MAN machine, it gives meaning to life.

Cruz'N Bruz'R

I have no idea what it runs. The vette was definately a sure runner. I made sure first it wasn't a big block, I still would have run it though. Anyways, I saw him at the car show and its got the stock Tirbo Fire 365hp sbc. I'm not sure if it was a stingray or not, but it wasn't a split window. Gorgeous car anyways.
Oh and for the one with the uncle with the 63, 327 350hp vette.
Check the sig. I'm rated,supposedly, for 452hp.

84TAProject

My mom has a 69 with a non original 350/2bbl motor with peanut cam, 4 speed, and 3.73 rear. It moves along pretty good off the line, but my firebird would smoke it. It is a sick car, and gets a buttload of looks and is great for top down cruising (its a convertible). I'm not alllowed to drive it either. I merely state, "Ma, if your afraid of me and the power, drive my T/A, its got more power anyway." It still looks sweet with the 69 red vette, my bird, and my father's 67 camaro in the garage. There used to be a 61 vette in there but that got sold 10 years ago to buy a boat. I remember watching my father burn his eyebrows off when the carb backfired.

As a side note, I was reading an older motor trend that had an article about a ZL-1 corvette (all aluminum 427, an absolute beast of a motor) that they made two of in 69. Apparently given a set of drag slicks it would run low 11's high 10's. Thats abolutely obscenely fast. Apparently its top speed was like 140 and it was pulling through the traps at like 135.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

WHAT? They only trapped 112-114 WITH slicks. Sounds like 430HP to me. Underrated maybe... but in torque. NOT HP. And while we're on the subject, the 69 Z28 was NOT underrated either. I've seen a GENUINE 69 302 with headers and full exhaust, 4.30's and slicks trap at only 101. 290 sounds right there too. Some claim it's got over 400!

Cruz'N Bruz'R

I won't be satisfied until I get to run a 454 SS Chevelle. That is, in my opinion, the ultimate test for my car.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

ok, know-it-all...............i took those figures directly from several corvette history books, because i am a big vette fan.........................would you like to explain the difference in net vs. gross HP to me?

curt86iroc

you know its sad but true......

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

Sure. Net is real world HP, with all applicable accessories and manifolds for that specific vehicle. Started in 72 i believe. Gross HP was using no accessories on the motor, dyno provided headers and intake setup (above carb). NOT AS INSTALLED IN CAR HP - Modified HP. BTW - most older BBC cars with unrealistically high HP numbers put less RWHP down than an average LS1. I don't know it all just because I can point out BS when I see it. From Corvette books huh? I've got 2 Camaro history books in my posession with so many errors it's ridiculous.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

whatever

RockinIroc91

1966 was the only year that the L88 427 was rediculously underrated. It was rated at 425hp and produced more like 560hp. There was another 427 option in 1966 that was rated at 435hp but cost less then the L88 so obviously everyone bought that. The reason they underrated the L88 was so people on the inside of GM could buy the cars and use them specifically for drag racing. The engine was all aluminum and had like 12.5:1 compression. There was somthing like 19 L88's sold in 1966. I am unsure of the power the L88 made in other years but i know it was not as high as it was in 1966.

Cruz'N Bruz'R, make sure the SS 454 chevelle you race is a 1970 with the LS6 454 and not a LS5. The LS6 made 450hp and ran 13 flat in the 1/4. The LS5 made 365hp barely breaking mid 14's in the 1/4. 1970 was the only year the LS6 was available in the chevelle.

RockOn

MarcZ,

The original camaros with a 302 did have 400 + hp....ask somebody from back in the day thats hardcore in to Chevy's and they will tell you the real scoop of things.

Thanks

iroc22

Dude it was a iron block coupled with the L89 RPO code. The ZL1 was all aluminum. There wasn't any change to the L88 through it's production so I am unsure of how there could be a difference in power between the years.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

RockOn:

He is a friend of my father's. He agrees with me, and HE OWNS ONE! A genuine 69 Z28 302, beautiful shape and he's not a bench racer like most other 302 Z28 owners who are afraid to drive their overrated cars. He feels he's pushing close to 325 with his mods. Still pretty damn impressive for an old 302. Older muscle cars are nice strong performers, but many were overhyped. Virtually NONE were in the 13's without slicks and headers. The only exceptions I can think of that ran well were the LS6 Chevelle's, 396 Nova's, most 426 Hemi's, and L88 Vette's. Factory racecars like the Thunderbolts and COPO and ZL1 cars excluded. Everything else was a 14 second car, even with decent tires. Rather than talk to some dude seated behind a car at a show, stop by your local track and talk to the guys who actually race their cars. Watch any Nostalgia Street class and see what it takes to run the times some people claim they ran stock.

TunedPortZ

i would have to agree with marc, aside from factory performance cars such as the super stock mopars etc. most muscle cars were solidly in the 14's. theres even an article on this sight when they put a g92 optioned camaro against a 69 z28 , and the third gen ate it up. and if i remember correctly it was a 305 at that.i will always love old muscle, those cars are pretty, and they are quick, but they are overrated. not trying to flame, just my .02 worth

Stormshadow GTA

don't forget about the old trans ams the 455HO and the 455SD,the 455SD went 13.5 and it was the auto not the 4 spd

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

455 TA's quick? Weren't the super-duty engines smogger era engines in heavy cars? I know the 70 455 Judge ran pretty damn good though. Don't know that much about BOP's However I do know enough about the Fords to know they couldn't compete back then. Little different story with the mid-80s and later.

330hp_91RS

Most of the time if those stingrays aren't heavily modded, they keep those cheesy wheels on the rear, you know, the kind you wish you could put on your car once in a while to see if you can burn um' till they pop!!!

My uncle had a 65 convertibe stingray w/327 h.o. couldn't hook
up for crap,
those ones w/427 and 4 speeds are impossible to launch... Not saying that he would have won by any means, just that you would have beat him off the line no matter what, hard to fit decent rubber on the rear of those years....

330hp_91RS

Maybe that 302 Z-28 is a friday car or somthin' cause 302's are about the baddest motor chevy produced in that era. My dad was and ol' gearhead 1st car 68' RS -SS w/350 2nd car 67' Nova w/ 327 3rd car was the baddest: 61 vette with an all roller 396 BB, ran high 10's on the street with slicks on the track!!! He said that the only car that could play with him then were: HEMI"S, 302 Camaros and Cobra jet stangs (427's and 428's) He said he had a bunch of buddies w/ 302 cars and yes thay were UNDERRATED, with headers and a full exhaust and slicks: 12's all day, heavy mods will make that motor a real bruiser.
Right now my dad just bought mom a 77' stingray and it's got a beefed 350 in it, he says "If I ever put a motor in this car, it's gonna be an old Z-28 302 motor."

Stormshadow GTA

the 455SD were awesome engines until they started to get smogified,best engines to sit between the fenders of a TA in y opinion

Black 91 Z28

I'm a big fan of the 302s as well. So if you'll go over here http://1967z28.com/index.htm you can see where I got all the stuff I'm about to post. Sorry Dial up guys.

Black 91 Z28

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Black 91 Z28

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Black 91 Z28

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Black 91 Z28

Here is another GM dyno sheet but I don't remember where I got it from. Wish I knew. Sorry it's hard to read, I got a clearer one but it's too big to post.

Ok, Flame on!

David

jocww

hey what about the z-11 camaro and the hemi road runners and daytonas and how about the boss 429 and shelbys?????

Sitting Bull

When I was in grade school, up until 1972 (stone age, I know), my school's music teacher had a Stingray with a 427. Oh man, was that car ever beautiful :hail: :hail: :hail:

And was it ever fast ...

My little home town must have been the muscle car capital of the world. There was EVERYTHING available from Detroit on the streets there, and I saw many an excellent race

jocww

hey dont u guys think a tripower 389 gto is fast my dad had one when he was a kid in the late 60s and my uncle had a firebird 400 both had a m21 in it and they said that they could whoop on alot of cars back int he dya. how about a 409 65 impala does are sick as hell or a fairlane with a 427 those are wicked:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: the car gods

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

403 Gross HP? Read the above posts. What does that translate to - 325 net HP? Funny how EVERY magazine back in the day couldn't get any better than low 15's in the mid 90's out of them. The 302 COULD NOT compete with the big block torquers of the day - nuff said. They were awesome road race cars, but were not designed for drag racing. They ran well once modded but were not that impressive stock.

302 the "baddest" engine? I'd take an LS6 or even LS5 over a 302, a 426 Hemi too. Most never compete in Nostalgia not because they're rare and expensive, but because they can't compete. The LS6 and Hemi cars pretty much mop up the competition. 409 Imp's ran good in the early 60's but the 396 Nova's dominated them on the strips when introduced.

BTW - the 427 Stingray IS one of the exceptions. I've got an old (1968) Car&Driver video clip of one running 12.7@112 on the stock tires <---- impressive!

330hp_91RS - put an original 302 in a late 70's Vette? I hope he's rich An LS1 swap would be cheaper, and a lot faster too. Friday motor? ET was 13.2 spinning almost to the 60'

I guess we should all just forget about the big block cars that really made close to 400 HP and all get old 302's. Who needs a true 450HP 454 when we have 302's making just as much power. Better yet, why did Chevrolet ever make a big block SS? We all know 302's stomped them big blocks back in the day. Give it a rest.

And for those who STILL doubt me...

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/articles/zvsz.shtml

Pretty much says it all. The MIGHTY 302 taken down by the lowly 305. Now all you 302 defenders please be quiet because i dont like the 302

1991tealRSt-topGuy

i'd certainly hope so!

1991tealRSt-topGuy

kinda funny how marc strayed away from conversation about the L88/ZL1 and pulled the 302 out of his hat :sillylol:

Black 91 Z28

67 Z28- 14.9 in the quarter. -Car and Driver
http://1967z28.com/articles/cc-4.html

Cruz'N Bruz'R

I would rank the LT5 up there with those. But the insane 427 would be number one.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

The 302 comments were made to RockOn and Black 91 Z28.

And dropping out of the L88 argument - NOPE. I agree they ran strong but not 560HP strong as you stated. They were probably good for 460-475HP.

Yup, it went one tenth faster than all the others. I guess it really does have 403HP Thanks for helping MY argument. BTW - what was the MPH?

Cruz'n Bruz'r - Hell yeah I'd take a LT5 or the gen III LS6, but those are a totally different time period.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

hmmmm which means i am correct because 460 NET HP is about equal to 560 GROSS HP

Black 91 Z28

97 mph (thanks for using the link)
I never said the 302 would run 12s in stock form. In the article I got the time from they were shifting around 6000 rpm. Well below peak power for the 302. I was just posting that to go against your statement that they all ran 15s. I'm just sick of folks saying that the 302 sucked and couldn't get out of it's own way. I don't think they would blow 429s and LS6s out of the water. Thats crazy to say that. I suppose given the right conditions it would be possible.
I do find it funny how today we look at times in a magazine and laugh cause they have Z06s running low 13s but we're quick to assume they were dead on back in the 60s and 70s.

What did you think of the 302 when you drove a car powered by one? I know I enjoyed it and it didn't feel like a 15 second car.

Not trying to start anything,
David

330hp_91RS

Can anyone else remember why the 302 ran high 14's, because of the 14 inch wheels and weenie tires!!!! The good numbers were obviously run on slicks ( like I said ) and also, don't forget that the tire quality in the late 60's early 70's were SUB- PAR!!!

Sure a lot of people would rather have a LS6 or an L88, but how about the most desireable SMALL BLOCK??? 1st off, the 302 has the best power to weight ratio, they are very light ( 283 block ) that is why they were used for Trans American competiton ( aqnd they could rev to darn near 8,000 rpm ) 2nd they snap, and twist so fast and are so quick to the throttle, driveability is awesome!!! The shortetned stroke make that motor so snappy it's rediculous, totally noticeable on the street.


If you think those cars are slow, let me know of the outcome if you ever race one on the street, especially from a rolling start!!! so a STOCK 92' Z-28 can run a mid 14 sec et, and the 302 runs slower, KEEP DREAMING!!!

ericmac450

Hey Black 91 Z,

you think we should take Marc 85Z28 out for a ride some time in a stock SLOW 15 second 69Z? Hell, I will put the motor back in myself just to see the look on his face when we fire it up

Anyway, What do I know...I just have a slow cavalier

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

ericmac450 - I'm getting the feeling that your 302 isn't stock, and if it is, you'll be seeing my taillights.

330HP_91RS - I got beat by 1 carlength from 30 MPH roll to 90 MPH by the car mentioned above. And like I said, he's not stock. He was wise to shut it down before 100 where the aerodynamic factor would have come into play. He whooped me from a stop to 60 or so by 4 lengths - and he was running ET Streets. And slicks/ET Streets means the car is no longer stock BTW.

1991tealRSt-topGuy - Gross HP hasn't been used for 30 YEARS !!! Why do you still continue to measure power output by a method that hasn't been used in 3 decades - were you even alive then? By that account a stock TBI 305 is making close to 260HP

Black 91 Z28 - never driven a Chevy 302. I've driven numerous Ford 302's, and ALL felt faster than they actually were. The 302 was not a dog - I never said that. They ran good, but not 400 HP stock good. Almost all Z06 tests I've seen are in the 12's.

Motorweek got a 12.4 @ 118 out of a Z06. With 405 HP. If the old 302 had 403 HP, why does it run more than 20 MPH slower? Traction affects ET, and affects MPH very little, so tires are not an excuse.

jocww

hey what about the original 63 z06s how fast where they