raptoryfm660r

Japan is going to start shipping them over.


When Mitsubishi brings its Lancer Evolution VII to the United States next spring, it plans to sell the car for under $30,000. The Lancer Evolution has all-wheel drive and a turbo-charged 276-horsepower engine that will propel the car from 0 to 60 in under five seconds.

Will the F-Body survive the onslaught?

Chet

Camar_Hunter_c

Try upping the Hp numbers... there. add about 30-50. And yes it is doubtfull.

5.7L OF JUSTICE

I'm not too worried. People who want American cars are going to buy American cars no matter what else is out there. Besides its just another link in the chain of cars like the 3000GT VR4, S2000, WRX, etc.

SoCo80p

iTrader: (5)

This is the f-bodys last year so no the f body will not survive, the last one standing is the mustang and there back with avengince for 03' with the 390 HP cobra so atleast theres one domestic out there to carry the torch for the US

raptoryfm660r

When you go to our local Chevy dealership its getting harder to find where the cars are on the lot. Then when I do see them besides the Camaro,(going, going, gone) and Corvette, I don't like what I am looking at.

They have acres of trucks and one very small row of cars.

Made in the USA means trucks

Chet

84TransAm350TPI

I don't think the mustang will ever die! The keep getting faster and faster.

Are you sure about the HP on those cars? Japan has differant emmisions than us... I know they have some nasty cars there that are totally illeagal here... I know the new 350 Z is coming out soon for under 30k, i didn't know the Lancer Evo was coming too! If your right,.... we better get prepared!

raptoryfm660r

84TransAm350TPI,

I believe the HP numbers to be correct. I not going to bet my life on it though.

The next model will be the Nissan Skyline GTR, described as the Chevy Corvette of Japan.

Chet

DakotaSLT

Well, then I guess we're going to have to keep buying older Camaros and just start dropping bigger engines in them . 276hp with all wheel drive is nothing compared to a 502ci-motivated camaro. A guy around here has a '68 RS with one that he swapped in and damn is it the fasted thing I've seen, hell of a project to get it to fit though. Go ahead and keep trying to get hp out of those tiny engines in the new cars , bigger is better. Always will be.

Although I do have to say that I have respect for the Skyline and new RX-8, I just have more for big V-8's.

Nic

Heck, if its easy to mod and fun to drive then bring it on over! I'm all for it.

silverstreakII

evo VII--276 rated, approx. 300 trdue spec in JAPAN, us spec, approx. 250
rx-8--280 rated us hp, 0-60 5.9, 1/4 mid 14's
wrx--227 hp awd, 0-60 5.4, 1/4 14.2
350z--280+ hp us spec, 0-60 approx 5.2, 1/4 approx 14.1
skyline aka infiniti q45- 300 hp us spec, 0-60 5.1, 1/4 1.0
viper-- 500 hp, 500 lb-ft, 0-60 3.9, 1/4 11.0
z06--405 hp, 400 lb-ft, 0-60 3.9, 1/4 12.2
03 cobra--390 hp, 390 lb-ft, 0-60 4.5, 1/4 12.4 approx
peter farell rx-7, 650 horse, 620 lb ft, 0-60 3.8, 1/4 11.2
lingenfelter vette, texas spec, 900+hp, 900+ lb-ft, 0-60 1.9 1/4 mid 9's..... legal
lingenfelter s-15, 900+hp, 900+lb-ft, awd, 0-60 1.9, 1/4 mid 8's if the transmission would last a full run
vtec--weak
vvti-- just plain quick
thirdgens-- just plain cool and sexy

the true *****---- paid 90k for a brand new 290 hp nsx, ugly and slow with odd but effective handling dynamics....
the true *****---- paid 36k for an s2000 with 240 horse and 153 lb ft at 2500000000 rpm,
the true *****---- couldve had a viper or ss for that price
the true *****---- believes in zoom zoom
the true *****---- thinks a taller car handles better (civic, rsx, matrix/vibe)
the true *****---- thinks a 4 banger five door is cool
the true *****---- is awed by 165 hp
the true *****---- thinks 400 lbs makes up for 200 hp
the true *****---- belives 140 hp @ 7200 rpm is better than 345 lb-ft@2500 rpm
the true *****---- will race ANYTHING in his 17 sec 89 accord
the true *****---- adds stickers, blue lights, a wing, afart can, and rims for 400 hp

the true import guy---- is into mods
the true import guy---- has a true 12-sec rex, 3000gt vr4, wrx, etc.
the true import guy---- has a decent amount of cash to fund his import, but doesnt waste it on stickers
the true import guy---- will race a car if he thinks itll be a good race
the true import guy---- deserves respect

the true muscle car guy---- has a few muscle cars
the true muscle car guy---- may not be the fastest, but has one of the coolest pieces of history on wheels
the true muscle car guy---- only has stickers on his race car, and only when its a sponsor
the true muscle car guy---- doesnt drive like a d*ck
the true muscle car guy---- races when its fun, and worth the gas
the true muscle car guy---- realizes there are some hot imports, and spends his time making his 20-60 year old tech whoop on variable valve timing, 100hp/liter, state of the art imports just cuz



Some imports are cool, most ricers suck, and ill take anything fast, so long as its not dependant on low weight. dont wanna bog on a hill cuz my buddies just added 250 lbs to a 2400 lb car i want somethin quick, and actually i really like the new 350z, maybe ill pick one up this year

Paul_Ishmyknob

Ill be ready this summer, all future mods under way, bring 'em on.


-Curt

raptoryfm660r

:hail: silverstreakII :hail:

Chet

HrdRockA4305

I second that. I couldn't have said it much better.

Back on topic, are you SURE that the EVO is making it stateside? Cause its been out for years in Japan and never been street legal in the US, why is it going to become legal anytime soon? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I haven't heard this and am curious.

raptoryfm660r

Their talking about a year from now and anything could happen between now and then. One stroke of the pen and its gone. A whole new market for the cars is here.
9-11-01 has slowed progress. If the stock market was 3000 points higher it would be a given.

Chet

try this site for info on the Lancer

IROCBOY

I wouldn't call a Lancer a Muscle car, anything without a 8-cylinder at least cannot be called a muscle car. If they can do 0-60 in under 4 we're in trouble though. I think i'm goin 4th gen.

Mark A Shields

Rice doesn't build muscle.

Cruz'N Bruz'R

Japan's smog control is a joke. There cars make lots of power, but with very dirty turbos. If the Lancer came over here it would be a highle de-tuned version in order to pass the North American emmisision laws.

Why do you think we don't get the Supra over here?, Not cause they don't sell, dealers couldn't keep them on showroom floors. It's cause they won't pass e-standards anymore. Skyline is the same way. There extremely fast and sorry to say, would destroy a new F-body, but realistically will never come over here in mass numbers unless a huge change occurs on them.

raptoryfm660r

Mark A Shields,

I have been riding rice since 1969. Got my first Honda that year. Think that's why I have no muscle.

Chet

vic_V8

I think that silerstreak and dakota said it best

raptoryfm660r

I think I could be swayed to that position too. I like the 93-97 models best.

Chet

trans87

I don't consider those muscle cars. They might fall under that category of sports cars but not muscle. Muscle means V8 powered cars made for speed and are American. There is always going to be a faster car so I am not worried. The important thing is that I am happy with what I have. Plus I will never like the sound of a four-banger. Sounds like a bad running weed whacker.

giovanhalen

When he said mini-musclecar I thought he was going to say Slostice or Razor. Mitsu Evo VII is too expensive. You can get a Camaro to toast it for less money. They are suppose to sell the Evo here next year.

Cruz'N Bruz'R

[QUOTE]Originally posted by giovanhalen
You can get a Camaro to toast it for less money. ]QUOTE]

Unless you spend about $15 more and up the boost then no chance in hell. Those engines can handle 600hp with stock internals.

IROCBOY

I agree, the 93-97 models look better but have less power because of LT1 vs. LS1 but the new ones have a chrysler look to them that I don't like(except SS) if I get a 4th gen I want a 96-2002 SS.

giovanhalen

Go ahead, get one and up your boost. Your not going to tell me that for $15 you can have 600hp are you? The stock engine internals can handle 600hp, fine, for how long? The rest of the drivetrain won't handle it though. An LS1 can handle 600hp with stock internals also, doesn't mean anything. If you buy an Evo you will be driving a car that only car guys will have any respect for and not so much for it's 1/4 mile acceleration. Camaro's will not be avoiding you. Gas mileage will not be good. Awd is only good for racing through low traction conditions and curves, the rest of the time it is a hindrance and something else to break. Your original purchase price will insure that lots of people will have cars they have spent less on for similiar or better performance.

iroc22

Originally posted by Cruz'N Bruz'R

Quote:

Unless you spend about $15 more and up the boost then no chance in hell. Those engines can handle 600hp with stock internals.

That's what all the Supra guys say because they have stock forged internals. But they still shoot rods really easily. The Buick 3.8's handle more boost on non-forged internals. It's too bad GM doesn't make another RWD turbo 3.8 car to battle these turbo imports. GM actually got something right with those turbo 3.8's.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

do you guys honestly think this will change anything? ricers will still buy civics because they are cheap. these cars are all expensive cars that will most likely have steep insurance, you will see middle aged guys driving these cars and occasional rich teenagers but it is not going to make a big difference. its like assuming that just because there are new SS camaros for 30,000, every domestic fan is going to buy one. not everyone has that kind of money, and i predict that when these cars hit american streets, wings west will just start making body kits so the ricers can make their cars look like the real imports

MiSFiT

whata joke. 30k for twohundred and some horsepower?
30k will make one hell of a third gen.......

Gruvin84SS

I know it is kind of a joke but Saturn is supposed to have a little turbo coupe to run against the Civics and such. Not totally on topic, but whatever.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

some muscle cars have 6's

buick grand nationals and TTA's come to mind

1991tealRSt-topGuy

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

i honestly dont consider anything without a v8 in the muscle car category. the turbo v6 crowd in my mind just gets grouped into fast turbo grouping in my mind, tho others opinions vary.

ChillPhatCat

Well, consider that the thirdgen is not really a muscle car. F-bodies were made to compete with the Mustang, and the mustang is what people usually consider a pony car. The F-body best fits the pony car description... large 6's and small block V8's are not my idea of a muscle car. I would say that a pony car is a subcategory of muscle cars.

True muscle cars for me are probably 4000 to 4500 Lbs and they came with a big block at one time. I put the Buick GN into the muscle car category because it is only made to go fast straight and it drives like a boat. Plus, it is in the same family as the Buick Regal. If someone took a Chevelle and dropped in a 270 V6 it would still be a muscle car.

BTW I got a chance to drive an '87 Buick GN recently. I want one! When that turbo spooled up, I fell in love.

My last point... I wouldn't be too scared of a 270 Hp AWD car... sure the 0-60 is probably pretty quick, but it will run out of steam shortly thereafter due to excessive drive train loss and extra weight... plus you will never beat a RWD car up top end... it defies the laws of phyisics... a division of power will never yeild to a greater total power.

iroc22

Sounds like you're talking about a 1/2 ton truck.

I can't think of any 60's muscle cars that were that heavy. The whole point of a muscle car was big power in a lighter car. The 409 Impalas/Bel Air's weren't considered muscle at the time. The GTO started it.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

i consider thirdgens sports cars actually, but in reality i think that muscle car evolved into the g/n's, thirdgens and fox bodies.

raptoryfm660r

You could be right about the GTO, but that will be forever debatable. I thought it was the rocket V8 from Oldsmoblie, the Chrysler hemi from the late 50's, the Corvette, one cubic inch per horsepower stated , but that is debatable too.

I am showing my age here because I remember the:hail: GTO from the 60's.

Chet

Ghour_Demon

Im thinking of a cadillac with a 500ci engine.
An early 70's monte carlo with the 454,
A fully loaded charger with a 426 or a 440 is pretty close.
Oldsmobile toronado, chrysler 300H, or an Imperial
Basically any large bodied family sedan or coupe, aka "a boat"
with any big block option will match that weight, maybe a little less, sometimes a little more.

Camrs89

Hey lets not forget whats replacing the Trans Am in 2004. The GTO. Its a Grand Prix body style with an LS1, 6 speed, and rear wheel drive. I am looking foward to seeing those on the road again.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

is it already decided that it will an ls1 car? i thought that was just a rumor.

raptoryfm660r

Rear-drive V-8 Pontiac GTO

They write about the goat down under in the July issue of Motor Trend.

The engine will be the 5.7/302-hp all aluminum GenIII LS1 V-8 from the corvette. 6 speed or 4L60E four speed automatic.

Chet

85transamtpi

As stated earlier,

If bringing these cars to the US market was as easy as a pencil stroke, dont you think the Japanese auto makers would have done it years ago? With the huge import craze we have in the US right now they would set themselves up to make some serious money. These cars can not pass US smog/crash tests, which is why they are not in the US now.

There is a serious demand for import "hod rods" now, and a few auto makers are starting to respond, but if we do see these cars in the US you can be sure that they will be a de tuned/body kit version.

-Doug

Cruz'N Bruz'R

Right on the money!

And Giovanhalen...it won't take anywhere near 600hp to put a turbo AWD into the 11's or 10's.

So stop blabbin you sound like an idiot!

Camrs89

"is it already decided that it will an ls1 car? i thought that was just a rumor"

No rumor about it. It is a fact!!! If you ask me. American muscle cars are far from being over. I think they are just starting...
If you want more info on the new GTO check out this webite...
http://www.ultimategto.com

iroc22

A Cadillac is not a muscle car.

An early 70's Monte Carlo had a shipping weight of 3300lbs. A well-optioned one would only see about 3600-3800lbs.

A 68-70 Charger is 3575-3610lbs. A Daytona Charger is about 3800lbs, so that's fairly close.

A Tornado is 4300lbs well optioned out, but a front-wheel drive muscle car?

A 300H is 4000lbs. That one could be thrown in the category I suppose.

The big "boat" family sedans weren't the true muscle cars. They were luxury for families and had the big blocks to actually move the cars, not for racing the guy at the light beside you. Not every car from the 60's was a muscle car.


The GTO was virtually the creator of the "muscle car" concept, althougth the most credit should be given to Pontiac advertising man Jim Wangers.

SpeedCat86

Shhh, don't tell anyone, but..............
In Australia, you can go to your local Ford or Holden(GM) dealer and buy a V8, rear drive car in Coupe, 4-Door, wagon or Ute (ElCamino) body styles. Have been for years.

The potential New GTO is the 2-door Holden, which has recieved every engine the Camaro has had over the years, and some it hasn't, like a Calloway LT-1


I think we will start seeing more cars we haven't been able to get before in the near future. I personally am looking forward to the return of Alfa Romeo to the US. The main reason that many European and Japanese cars don't come over is the Emissions check. The US much more stringent on CO and HCs than the rest of the world, which is why you see so many diesels in Europe. That's not to say that they don't do E-checks, they just look for different stuff than we do.

Japanese HP numbers are the opposite of Ford numbers. For many years now, the Japanese automakers have 'limited' max HP of any car to 280 (or 276) We all know that there were much higher numbers on those cars in the foreign market, but in Japan, they all were listed at 276, regardless of what they really made. If a Japanese-market car has 276 horsepower, I would be wary of the real numbers.

AlexJH

I hear it's the Holden Mondero, I was talking to a GM PR guy at a car show, he said they're bringing about 30,000 to North America.

http://www.holden.com.au/app/serve?page=monaroEntry

I guess the V8 version will be badged as the GTO.

ChillPhatCat

well... I don't know the numbers... just putting an estimate down that got supported and shot down... whatever.

The point I most wanted to make is that the image I get of a muscle car is a car that is good at going straight and not so good in the corners... that is where the pony car compromises with good handling and decent speed usually with a V8 engine.

If you've heard a Buick GN drive by at WOT you'd know it deserves the "modern muscle car" title.

shrp1

Im not worried about any of them!!!

raptoryfm660r

You need not worry with your car. :hail: shrp1

Chet

giovanhalen

cruz'nbruz'r why don't you learn to comprehend what you are reading before you go trying to mess with me? Where did I say it would take 600hp to run 10's or 11's, you Idiot! Someone said a mitsu 4banger could handle 600hp with stock internals and I pointed out that it doesn't mean anything to know what power it could handle. Another reason they don't bring alot of Japanese cars over here is because they don't pass crash standards. When I lived in Japan most cars were rust piles by the time they were 10 years old, that is why they have all the used japanese engine ads in the paper, the cars rusted off and they got all those engines still in good shape.