92superram

I don't know if it really counts as a race but... I was on going south on I 75 into dayton going about 75-80. This black convertible s2000 pulls up going about 85(some rich kid on a cell phone). I pull up right beside him, and he speeds up, so I gun it. I was doing a little over 100, and he was doing about 90-95, when my girl askes me to slow down. I slowed down to 80 and let him go. I guess it wasn't worth loosing this girl on our 3rd date. There will always be more races, but who knows how many more hot girls i'll be able to get in my car.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

LOL. Pretty cool anyway.

ZZ42Fast

iTrader: (2)

I just blew one of those away at the track. I've been hearing that those little Honda's are blowing their engines all the time as they can't really handle the 9000 rpm red line ops: Shame isn't it

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

Hahaha thats funny! Lets see, award for most useless engine goes to........... the S2000!! Has no low end so you have to wind it out, but when you do, it breaks!!

85transamtpi

No kidding V6canvas,
I drove one of these SOB's. Floor it at 3 grand or so and its a waiting game. Its like come on, come on, you can do it....ahh there you are. Then you look at the stupid tach and see youre pulling 9 grand. And the engine bogs like hell if you try to launch at anything under 7000rpm.

On the highway it might have been a good race, but in general John Force has to be driving for these cars to be competitive.

92superram

lol, looks like i got a much better car at a much lower price than him. The only thing one of those "sports cars" has that mine doesn't is a ragtop, a really high redline, and over 30mpg. Oh well, I enjoy the hardtop, the redline i can work on when i get enough money to rebuild, and 30mpg just aint going to happen in a 3500lb sportscar.

TBI305Camaro

how fast are those things? what kinda times do they run some guy i know swears a stock s2000 with beat a new trans am i know hes full of crap i thought i remember someone saying they had trouble keeping up with TPI 305s

CrazyHawaiian

well for the price s2000's suck. they are like 30 grand and performance parts are so expensive. the worst is after 2 grand worth of boltons you only gain about 15 hp overall. the engines are just tuned to the max from the factory. i've even seen bodykits for this car for more than the evo (more than 7k!!). and you guys are right they pull like crap under 5k. i think the only thing the s2000 has going for it is its RWD. i have to admint tho .. on a closed road course and a good driver keeping it between 5k-9k those cars are badass. but for me ... i'd rather get a vette for that kinda price!!

o btw they run high 14's stock w/ good driver

cort351w

LS1's get 30+ mpg on the highway. My dad's 98 M6 got 32 mpg routinely.

89camaroRSV6

i wouldnt say 30mpg for the s2000 i drove one @ a dealerhsip here and on the banner it says 16 in the city and 24 in highway...

92superram

Wow, really, i would have expected much better mileage for such a small car. I guess the higher revs suck it down. I can't believe people actually pay over 30k for a car like that.

Ghour_Demon

S2000
Its basically a large motorcyle engine bolted into a sports car (what other ways will ricers do to gain power by ignoring displacement)

1997cc
240hp @ 8300rpm = 152ft/lbs @ 8300rpm
153ft/lbs @ 7500rpm = 218hp @ 7500rpm
2810lb curb weight

expect mid to high 14's

5.0mustang

Thats way too much money to spend on that car. I have a 1/4 of that into my car and I would run circles around it at the track and who cars about the 120 hp per liter, or whatever, it still has 2.0 liters!!!

1992_25t_1letpi

my cousin who lives just up the street from me has a 2000 S2000. he never takes anybody for a ride. and when he drives it you can't wear your shoes in the car, and they better be a bran new pair of socks. he takes real good care of the car, it has never seen 5000 rpms.....never. just rolls out of the driveway and rolls down the road. Get this, he couldn't pick up his own son from school because of gravel on the parking lot.

92superram

my 2 cents:
That is sad. He spent too much for a crappy car, then won't even use it. The moron could have gotten a perfect cond lt1 vette for way less. It makes me mad that people waist money on stupid stuff when they could just give the money to me. CARS ARE MENT FOR DRIVING NOT PAMPERING.

Barwick

No it doesn't count towards a race.. the S2000 isn't a drag race car, nor a highway race car, and never was meant to be.

Have your overweight, large displacement cars just gone to your head? Does a car's 1/4 mile time govern your life now? Sure it's cool to have massive acceleration, but there are other things that make a car.

Any of you live in Michigan? I'll guarantee you, take your F-body to Waterford Hills race track, and you will get SPANKED by an S2000 on that track. Why? Because it's a tight course that maintaining speed is more important than acceleration. Sure it's a "slower" car than yours, but the only thing an F-body has going for it in the handling department is the fact that it has large tires to keep it to the ground. It's way too heavy for anything besides circle track or drag racing in my opinion. If you didn't do some serious prep to your car, you'd have glowing brake rotors by the fourth lap around that track, becuase you accelerated too fast to be able to take the next turn with your handling/weight setup, so you have to lay on the brakes all the time.

The S2000 is a sports car, not a muscle car. An F-body is a muscle car, not a sports car. Muscle cars go fast in a constant direction, ovals and drag racing, start tossing that thing left and right and the balance gets all upset and it's not happy. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having one to tool around in once in a while, but since everyone and their grandmother in Southeast Michigan has one, I get sick of seeing them.

Remember the Acura Integra Type-R? It isn't exactly the best daily driver out there unless you're a real car enthusiast who doesn't mind a loud car with a pretty stiff ride.

The S2000 is a purpose built racecar for the street. Where do racecar engines spend 90% of their time? Within the available powerband. How are they kept there? With close ratio gearboxes that keep the engine from coming out of the powerband when you shift. They handle very well in stock form. They often aren't focused on pure power. Are you going to argue with me that the MG Midget, Austin Healey Sprite, Triumph Spitfire, and others like them were not sports cars because they had small engines with not much power? Whenever you mention them, people say "oh yeah, one of those old British sports cars".

And about the engine's reliability.. they don't come into the shop because the engine blew (do you honestly think that Honda can't build an engine to handle 9000 RPM after they've been building high-RPM motors for decades?) They came into the shop because the idiot owner tried to do an 8000 RPM clutch dump and snapped something. That's a lot of energy stored up in the engine/flywheel to be doing a clutch dump.

If you want to pick on a "sucky import" for the straight line, go find a Supra owner, and then tell me how the race went before saying that they suck. Or take me up on my offer, I'll put my '80 RX-7 up against your F-body at Waterford Hills any day of the week.

Barwick

Honestly, I would buy an S2000 over any Corvette from '60-'96. The only Corvette I'd buy over that one (if the same price) is a '50's or a Z06. Honestly, for the price you cannot beat the performance of the Z06 anywhere. That's one car that WILL beat the S2000 at Waterford Hills. But then again, it costs fifty g's to buy. At any rate, the Z06 will overall outperform just about any car up to twice its price, in handling, braking, acceleration, etc.. THAT is why I'd buy one. But anything else and I'll stick with the S2000.

Nic

I raced an S2000 one time and it blew me away...of course I was driving a 4 cyl. Sonota at the time

CamaroFreak406

Am I lost is this the right web page? I thought this was for Third generation Camaros and Firebirds not Honda s2000 fans.com. I don't give a **** how fast they are at a road course. The street race is all that matters to me and most people. So when you are sitting at a red light in your s2000 and I pull up in my Camaro remember you don't have a chance. "But if we went to the track...." I don't care this Board is called Street Racing, and the s2000 stinks at it so live with it.

91rsrider

i think barwick is seriously confused.sure the s2000 is a purpose built race car.everyone knows how well it handles in the twisties.but NO ONE ROAD RACES FOR PINK SLIPS,CASH,OR RESPECT!!! thats whys theres drag racing,and to pretty much everyone,thats the only type of racing that matters.you cant go and say to someone "yeah i bet my camaro will beat your honda in a lap around my neighborhood."on the street its all about going in a straight line,and who can do it the fastest.so yes,it DID count as a race,and the s2000 LOST.
just my 2 measly cents......

92superram

Barwick, I'd be glad to take your offer. I would love to show you what an f-body can do. I'd put cash on it. Plus, i have respect for some inports like supras and rx-7s, because they are great cars. I never said anything about "sucky imports" I just don't like the s2000.
What safety equipment will i need to race there?
Just keep me posted, and i'll come up to race sometime this summer.

Inwo

Haha, S2000 a race car, that's a good one! Race cars have to have accelleration, not high 14s accelleration either. You underestimate the power of the f-body. Maybe you should drive one before badmouthing them? OH! Better idea! Go back to h0nd4tun3rz.com and brag about how your car took the Porche's in the 'twisties.' Oh, and Supras suck as drag cars. 13.25@155 doesn't impress me in the least.

tpi_roc

Put a yoshimura Can on the s2000, maybe some boysen reeds, or a new Keihin carb on that motorcycle and It'll really be a drag race.

Dont forget to wear your leathers and knee pads when riding it cuz you never know when taking a corner you might knee down or lay it flat

Barwick

It's nice to see that there's some people around here who aren't just a bunch of rednecks that think all imports suck.

On another note..

Oh, so the one of the most unsafe form of racing is all of a sudden better than all the rest? Street racing isn't exactly high on the list of "real racing". Yeah it's cool to pull up to a stoplight and blow somebody away, but going twice the speed limit before the race is over isn't very safe. If your girlfriend/wife (or kids, or whatever) got killed because some punk was on the street doing 90 in a 35 zone trying to beat the car next to him when something unexpected happened and he spun out and turned your wife into a red splooge mark on the sidewalk, how would you feel about street racing then? Is it still such a great idea?

From what I understand, domestic owners are pretty good about taking it to the drag strip though, but I don't know the whole story. But if you can go to the drag strip, then why can't you go to a road race track too?

if the supra runs a 155mph trap speed... well.. I've seen it, and it's going to be a little quicker than 13's.

And the S2000 doesn't run high 14's. I'm not sure on the numbers, but I would give it at least high 13's stock, but that's not the discussion here.

And about "race cars have to have acceleration".. what crack are you smoking? You're saying becuase it doesn't have 300+ hp then it's not a race car? Then by your oh-so-smart definition, 95% of the race cars at Waterford Hills aren't really race cars, becuase you know, we've got Formula V's, Formula 500's, Formula Continentals, Honda CRX's, Mazda RX-7's, 4 cylinder mustangs, and on and on and on.. most of them are pretty well under 300hp, but strangely enough they'd whoop the CRAP out of your F-Body if you didn't put some serious $$ into the suspension/tires/lightening/whatever else.


And whoever asked about the race track: You can get out there on days when one of the clubs is out there with just a Helmet. Otherwise you've got to have an SCCA legal rollcage and a license to get out on the actual race days. The Club days (Porsche club, Corvette club, etc) are more for getting some laps in around the track.

Here's the Porsche Club webpage, look at the Drivers Ed page, it'll give you a list of days.

http://vista.pca.org//rsp/events.html#track

I can't legally take my '80 out there because it's "too loud" during the week, and the neighbors are real ***** about it, but within a month or so, I can have my overweight '90 TurboII out there, don't know what times I'll pull in that thing, but if anything we can compare lap times from the '80 race car during a race to yours during Porsche Club days if you want.

Camrs89

Inwo-13.25@155. Damn, that supra mustnt be hooking up. Are you sure you typed that right?

92superram

I consider my car a "sports car" if you don't agree with me, i'll take you for a ride.

KeithO

Barwick -

One clarification. No, you don't have to do major mods from stock to run a 3rd gen (hard) on a road course. The brakes shouldn't over heat (unless you are left-foot-braking and resting your foot on the brake). If you don't believe me, come see me at Watkins Glen on May 6th. Bring your stopwatch.

Quite frankly, the S2000 that I was at the track with (a guy I autocross with weekly) at my last event could just barely beat me. ...and he was on Hoosiers and I was on Pep Boy tires. I would have eaten him with the same treadwear tires.

I have 95,000 mile stock IROC. He has a one-year-old car...

vortecfcar

Im curious which import site you stumbled in from. The reason we drive thirdgens is because we know they are the BEST cars ever and because we all have ******s. Why is it that all import drivers think that a thirdgen cant take a turn (Im not saying every thirdgen is a corner carver, but what about 1LE cars)? Is it published in your owners manual that our cars are slow. Im also curious what this fascination with underpowered 2.0L cars is....is there some sort of tax writeoff you get for having a car that makes over 100hp/L? You have to expect to get shaken down a if youre gonna stroll in here with 8 posts and tell us how we should all buy road racing cars with turbo rotarys. Torque is fun and so is beating any ****box honda that wants to run on the street. If road racing is so important then dont pretend to have a fast car on the street because it only makes you look bad. I drag race, mostly because I dont have the money to make my car go fast and turn. However, I dont pretend I have a "twisties" car. I stick to what Im good at and will continue to post kills on overpriced imports just as long as they continue to line up next to me!

Inwo

Nope, Supras cannot hook. 13.25 is an average 1000 hp Supra number, take a look at some of those Supra worship sites sometime, these idiots have 15k in mods and are running stock f-body numbers cause they can't drive and their cars can't hook. Hell, I'll take my Camaro with stock suspension against Barwick's trolling *** any night of the week anyplace any time. Sure he might be able to get in smaller parking spaces with his grocery getter but my car still looks better, sounds better, and performs better than his 120hp POS. Also, you're saying that accelleration is NOT required to have a race car? Are you doing drugs or just amazingly stupid? Show me a race car that doesn't accellerate well that has EVER EVER EVER won a race (which assumes there is speed involved and not a decelleration race) If you can show me a car that cannot accellerate, even for a short burst out of a corner, that has had any success then I'll happily leave you alone on this point. But you see... accelleration is REQUIRED to race. You might not NEED 300hp but it sure as hell doesn't hurt.

costill91Z

put in a t-56 and you'll get just as good gas mileage as him. i think that 2.0liter vtec doesn't actually get that good of gas mileage...oh and you can chop the top if you want a vert...
they're nice cars, and look pretty cool, but id take the 30k and buy a used vette if i wanted a droptop

Crazy Firebird Kid

http://www.boosthard.com/list_ride_d...der_rides&id=1

I'm not sure what this guy has into his car, or what he's putting out for HP, but he's running 11.4 at bandamere (in Denver, CO @ 5800 feet). I love F-bodies, and I always will, but to say a 1000 HP supra will run with a stock FBody is insane unless the driver has no idea how to drive.

Inwo

It depends. I'd be willing to wager that 50% of the 1000hp supras that seem to be floating around are running 12s or worse. They can't seem to hook from what I've seen and read. People post all the time about their "mad fast" supras running 13s at 150+ Yea, basically they can't drive and their cars don't intuitively hook due to the IRS.

CrazyHawaiian

Well Barwick, I'll have to apologize for everyone else here on the boards. Most of them don't understand the point you are trying to make, and they are taking what you are saying as a personal attack. To most of the guys on this board, a 'race' is a dragrace from a stoplight to 2nd or 3rd gear. There are a few exceptions but most of the ppl here don't set their cars up for road racing or high speed (140 mph+) street racing. I do know what you're saying though, and I would have to agree with you. A S2000 with a good driver on a tight road course keeping the rev's between 5-9k is one badass car. I've seen them in action. They might be silly for daily driving, or racing from a stoplight, but on a roadrace track they are very fast in stock form. But for me personally, for that price you could get a brand new corvette that will handle damn close and outaccelerate on the straights. But anyway ...

I think f-body's can be built to roadrace. My current Camaro is basically stock but I attend monthly drifting comps. I know its quite different from road racing (grip vs drift), but drifting is a handling/braking sport that relies more on the suspension and weight disribution than the power or speed. Even with a basically stock 90 RS suspension / wheel setup I can hit turns like this:



and still keep going (thats about 45 mph btw). For my next project Camaro (91 z28), I will be doing a full suspension setup and I fully expect to pull over 1 G. I'm gonna be going with a coilover setup from Ground Control suspension. I will not drift that car though (its so nice and i dont wanna crash it!!); I have given the new drifting duties to a 85 mustang svo (4 cyl turbo, rwd).

And about the Supras ... you guys are partly correct, lots of the Supra guys neglect to modify their suspension to run good 1/4 mile times. Like a S2000 those cars are usually setup for road racing or high speed street racing. Instead of 'calling it out' at a stoplight, why dont you try it at about 60-80 mph??? You will see taillights if its a 1000hp supra. The guys who have modded their 1000 (+/-) hp supras to run 1/4 mi are in the 9's in street trim and daily driven (www.turboimports.com front page). A guy here on the island has a 635 rwhp supra that runs in the low - mid 12's. Supras setup for drag on the mainland US with comparable numbers are in the low 11's. Supras are good high speed street racing cars.

92superram

Were you talking about s2000 at 60-80mph, or just supra's? If you read the first post, the race started about 75mph and went a little over 100. It would have got way over 125mph if I was alone in the car, and the other guy had the ***** for it.

CrazyHawaiian

I meant the supras .... and only because they are turbo ... gotta watch out for any highly modded turbo car in a real street race ... they shine at the higher speeds ...

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

The Third Generation F-Body is 1 of the best all around cars you can get and does many things great. Take an IROC-Z 350. You've got a car with a 5.7 Liter V8, 245HP, 345TQ, runs very low 14's, weighs 3,341lbs. base, hits .92 G's, brakes nicely, have a Cd. of .34, looks incredible, gets 16MPG (cty.) and 26MPG (hwy.), sounds great, and more. That can also be had at a really good price. Thats a real car. A real performance car.

ZZ42Fast

iTrader: (2)

The S2000 weighs a mere 1100 KG or so, has the lateset electrical gadgetry and 240 bhp. I tell you now, I would hope that it would have a 1970's designed thirdgeneration IROC or equivelent around the twisties of a race track.. The two biggest factors here are weight and brakes (both linked) No matter what you do 1600 KG's of metal will need some help to keep up with the younger rival.

It won't take too much though to update a few key items on our suspensions and brakes and be with them every step of the way and with something called torque - don't come crying to me with excuses when we blow you away at all the tracks.

ZZ42Fast

iTrader: (2)

Oh, and the S2000's that have been blowing their engines up are all at track days, no clutch dumping there. The engine is so stressed and the tolerances so tight, I think Honda have actually created an engine that wont last, at least if you drive it like you need to, to get good performance. This is fact btw and not poetic lecense.

Barwick

I'll take you up on that offer. Do you not understand the fact that lightweight helps all the following:

- Acceleration
- Braking
- Handling

AND being light is contagious. If you pull 200 lbs off the car, you don't need as big brakes as before, there goes another couple pounds, the suspension can be a little less beefy, tires don't need to be as wide, wheels can be smaller, etc.. etc..

Power/Torque helps the following:
- Acceleration

That's not a huge list.

This is why the lightweight, short wheelbase cars win at Waterford Hills, because it's a 1.5 mile track, Mario Andretti once visited and commented that it is in his opinion one of the most technical tracks in the country. The times for the one-ton GT cars (tube frame) and the one-ton Honda CRX is only a few seconds. The CRX runs about a 1:16, the GT cars run 1:13 or so, even though they have probably 4 times the horsepower.

My friend set up Circle track cars at Berlin Speedway and he would watch the 600+ hp cars regularly get beat by the 300 hp cars becuase they just could not hook their tires up to the track. These aren't rookies we're talking about here either, this is people who "professionally" travel around and race (that'd be a cool "job").

Matter of fact, I'll take my SCCA prepped (limited by lots of rules) '80 RX-7 against you. Come on out to Waterford Hills some time and have some track times done while you're out there. I'm not trying to give you crap, but just understand that a 2400lb car with 130 horsepower WILL beat a 3000lb car with 300 horsepower on this track.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

You will huh. You do realize the Third Gens take the top places in autocrossing all the time right?! Its not like hitting 1 G is even a task for us on the skidpads either.

Inwo

Oh, but don't you KNOW that unless your car is under powered and fwd you can't win an autox or road race?!? Come on keep up IROCZTWENTYGR8! Obviously if it's applicable at some track in MI it's applicable everywhere! Whatever.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

LOL.

JAY87GTA

We'll run ya 2 races. Race 1 at your track in Michigan. It's setup for a low power twisties type car. Then we'll run at a place like say, Watkins Glen, or Mid-Ohio. It's setup for our type of car. Average the difference in the timeslips and declare a winner. I'd place money on the fact that if the thirdgen doesn't win it'll be so close that it wouldn't matter. Plus our cars are on average 15 years old with close to 100,000 miles on them. Taking all that into account I'd say the thirdgen kicks ***! So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

92superram

There is a lot more to handling than just vehicle weight. That is moronic. Weight distribution, oreintation, suspension, and tires are all very imporntant. Are you trying to tell me a 3500lb diablo couldn't outhandle your car? The lower the center of gravity, and the closer to 50/50 f/r ratio the better. Heavier cars have more inertia, which means they resist change in direction more, but the added weight ads friction between tires and the road. Smaller, lighter cars tend to handle better, because they have a lower center of gravity, which puts most of the force in a horizontal direction. Higher cars tend to "roll", this redirects more of the horizontal force onto the outside tires, and lifts off of the inner ones. The total weight of the car has much less to do with handling than center of gravity does.

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

I know this guy, although he says that he'd love to have an f-body, for race you'll never convince him to abandon his lightweight underpowered cars.

BTW I think I have only lost to him in one autocross (out of probably 5-7) in my automatic (3 speed) neon. This is against his "supirior" 5-speed civic w/ cold air, exhaust, upgraded brakes and possibly more. The only advantage I had over him was lower profile tires, though at the track we were at the surface was slick wnough so that the gain was marginal at best.

Bluebird

I smell a lot of B.S. what about you folks?

anyways.. my suggestion to you.. is take your stale
import rice burning fart car, and go to some other board
with people that give a crap.
You are among the many people that watched fast
n furious and got it in their heads that these little rice
cars with a "tootpick" axle, a large "fart" pipe, and clear
taillights and a "type-R" sticker stuck on teh side of your
fender will make you beat muscle cars.
it's until you've wasted your money and bought the car
and then get your baby butt spanked on the street by every
L98 or LT1 camaro that comes across you.
my Friends LS1 will spank you like a little baby and make you
run off crying like a little girl.


now go run off to your rice-site and hang with your import
loving buddies.

5.0mustang

Okay, so adding up everything Barwic is fighting about comes out to the fact that you need to spend $30,000+ for the most high tech import to keep up with a 3rd gen on a road course, get spanked anywhere on the street, whether top-end or acceleration, and get comparable gas mileage, all before breaking at 25,000 miles!!! And he will put his specially built SCCA race car against your daily driven street car!!!!! Go home you troll, I would probably spank you with one of the worst handeling sports cars out there, the Ford Mustang!!!!

CrazyHawaiian

my svo handles pretty good and its still stock ... cant wait to step up to a Griggs system ...

Barwick

My car is a 1980. Next..?

I've spent about $4000 on buying my car, my personal safety equipment, about 3 years worth of spares, some rollcage work, etc.. next..?

You've only raced me in I think two autocrosses since my Civic has been beyond stock. Before it had those "skinny as **** even for a Civic" tires on it, understeered like a piece, and is STILL slow as ***** (just like your automatic POS Neon, and don't argue with me, you've called it a POS too.) Yeah, you beat me when I had my Accord, way to go!!!! Quit talking smack like you're this great driver.

And another thing.. how did this conversation turn to my Civic? Did I not call it a piece of crap already? We were talking about the S2000 and my '80 RX-7. By the way...

Are you ignorant or just stupid? Can anyone here tell me which wheels drive the car on an RX-7? Anyone? Go ahead, take a stab in the dark at this one, you've got 3 choices.. All of them, the front ones, or the rear ones.

Seriously, you guys are a waste of my time. You can't accept the fact that your car isn't perfect at everything in the world. I try to point this out to you and you whine and complain like I'm speaking heresy or something. I've already admitted that a 200hp 2400 lb RX-7 will probably lose to a 400hp 3500lb F-body on the oval track, highway, and drag strip. Can't you just admit that that same RX-7 will probably beat the majority of the F-bodies out there on the road track, unless the F-body was seriously prepped for racing. Stock vs stock I'd put my money on the RX-7 against a Z28 at the road track.

But then again it all depends on the driver.

Inwo

Aww don't cry! Just because you know your POS can get outhandled by a RWD Camaro doesn't mean you have to start calling names! If we're such a "waste of time" go back to H0Nd41337tun3rzzzzzzzz.com and leave the guys who own GOOD cars alone kthxbye.