TransAm

What do you use? Why do you use it?

Thinking about switching over... worried about creating oil leaks though.

JAY87GTA

I'm running dyno juice. Valvoline Max Life 10W-40 to be exact. 123,000 miles and the valve guides are leaking. I can't justify the extra money in my mind, let alone convice the wife. I do run M1 5W-30 in her '02 mustang though. Can go longer on the oil changes and the synthetic makes me feel better with that thin of an oil in Florida's heat. Later

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Synthetic.

Why?

Thinner when cold, better lubrication at any temperature, increased resistance to heat breakdown, reduced wear, increased fuel economy, fewer oil changes, cleaner engine, increased seal life.

"Creating" oil leaks is a bit of a myth. "Exposing" leaks is probably a better way to put it. I changed over at 123k, changed the valve seals soon after. Some minor seeps started around the oil pan (enough to wet, not drip) in the first year, by the second year, pan was dry again.

Danno

Synthetics are just the best choice since they provide much better protection than mineral oils. This could be especially important should you develop a cooling problem or a failure of a hose or belt. What actually sold me and I have used synthetics for years is something more recent. My wife bought a 98 Blazer with a vortec v-6. After the breakin period I noticed that it consumed quite a bit of oil. I was constantly adding oil. GM actually addresses this issue in several TSB's outlining what is normal. You would really be surprised. Some mechanics say to bump up tp a 10-30 instead of the factory recommended 5-30. A five weight stock is light and when using mineral oil it tends to cook off causing deposits and sometimes cokeing. When I switched to Mobil1 5-30wt. synthetic it goes 6k on oil changes and I have never had to add a drop. The flash point of the syn. is so much higher than dino oils that there is little or no cookoff. I believe that if are diligent about oil and filter changes almost any premium oil will provide good engine life with little wear, however a synthetic provides superior protection even when all conditions are not exactly ideal. You have to decide if the higher cost is justified. If you choose to run mineral oil then look for flash point, viscosity index as the two most important factors. Flash points of 400 deg. or higher are good for dino, viscosity index will tell you how stable the oil will stay over its operating temp.

99Hawk120

I use synthetic in all my motors that are in good shape. The Olds and the Vette get conventional oil, because they burn it (the Olds only burns 1 qt in 3000 miles, but the vette burns a quart in 500 or so).

By the way, it's "Dino" juice. No y. As in, "dead dinosaurs".

camaro6spd

1 qt in 500 miles is BAD......i burn a 1 qt in 300...LOL I run Moble 1 in that for one reason only......burns cleaner...LOL, My new motor get is Catrol GTX....i may switch...depends, 305 have been known to to run to 200,000+ miles with conventional., If my 305 lasts that long I would be set. I might run 0w-30 in winter because my school is 10 min from me....start drive shut off, start drive shut off.....not to good on the engine. I dunno, after the work I put into it putting the engine in car, that might justify synth. I dunno I am in the debating stage of switching as you can tell...LOL

99Hawk120

Yeah, I'm well aware of how bad 1 qt in 500 miles is. That motor is on its last legs anyway. I can't imagine how much money I'd be throwing away using synthetic in that car.

I consider the 1 qt in 3000 miles acceptable for a car with 118,000 miles on it.

camaro6spd

I keep telling my self.....$25 for 5 qts of synth, $7 for 5 qts of conven....i could change the oil every 1,000 insead of the 3,000 and be spendng about the same money..i wonder what is better for the engine, conven every 1,000 or synth every 3,000?

Danno

6 speed, If you are going to change synthetic every 3k you ARE wasting your money. Three thousand oil changes are for "Dino" oils(yes I know about "dem big lizards) which are operated in the what manufacturers term severe service. This is basically stop and go driving of 10-20 miles or less. If your primary driving is highway high speed conventional oil can be changed every 6k. Synthetic severe service interval is 6k. If you use a premium oil you will spend anywhere from $1.50 to $2.50 for convential or a blend oil. I think you see my point. While I know that there will be arguments about frequency of oil changes among motorheads even the manufacturers are beginning to go to longer intervals. My friend got a Toyoto Tundra and I believe he told me that oil change interval is 8-10k with convential oil. Even bottom line name brand Dino oils have a largely synthetic additive package. I believe that no matter which oil you choose if it is a name brand your engine will have a long and happy life. Danno

camaro6spd

see you think the same way I do......brand name oil changed at the right times.....I dunno 3,000 is ALOT for my car, it is like every 2 months or so, usally it si 3,000 or 3 months so I will stick with that and conventional oil, ACDelco filter PF1218

2vmodular

10k miles is too long to go between oil changes unless the truck is seeing 200+ miles of solid highway driving a day.

synthetic oil may well last longer than convential oil, but the amount of combustion byproducts trapped in the oil is still the same. for instance, ever seen an oil pan corrode from the inside out, don't change your acidic oil frequently enough and you may well see it.

while on topic of oil changes, i've seen some severe instances of lack of maintenance. it's amusing when people come into a dealership service department with "only 60k miles" complaining of engine noises, and the service tech finds the original factory oil filter on the car. person then wonders why the manufacturer won't honor it's powertrain warranty.

Danno

2V, I am not recommending one way or another. I am only pointing out what the manufacturers of the various oils on the market say as to the frequency or mileage they recommend with a particular product. I put 3-4k on my camaro a year and change it twice a year. I use time vs. mileage. Most oil companies recommend a change every six months if mileage is below thier recommendations. My point was that if he switched to syn. the frequency of changes would be cut in half, hence it would help to offset the higher price.

99Hawk120

I also change my synthetic and filter every 3,000. Whether or not the oil needs changing is a subject to dispute, however, it seems most people agree that the filter really does. Once I've gone to all the trouble to get under the car, etc etc I usually just go and change the oil too. Is it a waste of money? Yeah, probably.

TransAm

Ok, so it seems like the majority is in favour of synthetic... Here's the follow up...

How many miles is too many to start using it? I've seen some posts about using blends for higher milage engines... You people who are using synthetic, how many miles are on your engine / how many were on it when you started using it?
I've got 132,000 on mine... picked it up with 129,000 on it..... That's the other reason i started this thread, i'm comming up on a change soon.

Danno

First is the engine burning oil? Second do the seals leak(e.g. oil pan, front and rear seals etc.)? If all things are in good shape you should be OK. However, with that many miles on the engine I don't think any real benefits are to be gained. With a 130k the motor is probably getting tired so I don't think the added cost may be to your benefit. Aside from a longer interval between changes you may not realize any other benefit other than maybe a little more peace of mind if you push her. Danno

84TransAm

I have a question that's almost the opposite of TransAm's... How many miles is too little to start using synthetic?? I've got about 1500 on my engine now and am planning on using synthetic sometime in the future.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

There is a definate lack of information here. While it is true that the same combustion byproducts will enter the oil, what isn't commonly known is that such byproducts constitute a very small percentage of what makes your oil "dirty". In conventional oils, most of that "dirt" comes from breakdown of the base oil itself - about 85%. Another 5-10% comes from the air used for combustion. If you reduce or eliminate those two sources, you've only got a small bit left for the oil to "absorb".

I've been changing my oil at 1 year or 25k miles, whichever comes first, with a filter change halfway through that, since 1983 (which is probably before some of you were born). That's using the AMSOIL oiled foam air filter, their oil filter, and their synthetic oil. Don't try to tell me combustion byproducts are primarily what make an oil unusable, because I know better. I have yet to wear an engine out, or have any mechanical failure due to lubrication using that schedule.

The "acidic oil" part - typically only an issue in diesels or cars driven for short periods that don't get warm enough to boil off accumulated water. Using a higher TBN oil will solve that issue, and synthetics "typically" (can't speak for all of them) are better in that regard than conventional spark ignition oils.

As for the "too many" or "too few" miles for switching, that is a little dependant upon the specific circumstances. The too many part depends upon how the vehicle was maintained in the past - like I said above, I changed the Camaro over at 123k, only changed the valve seals at that point, and the engine has over 146k on it now. As for too few, a factory new car can be changed over as soon as it gets home (some are now factory filled with synthetic). A rebuilt engine, especially one with flat tappet lifters, should have petroleum in it for break-in and machining debris clean-out, but a change after the initial run-in and one more after that should be quite adequate.

Mark305TBI

That's about the same formula that I use. I use Mobil 1 synthetic and change it at 1 year/20k miles (usually 20k). I've been doing that for four years (my dad's been doing it for alot longer than that). When I pulled the heads off about a year ago there was no gunk built up or visibly appreciable wear.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Hmmmmph.

TransAm

Five7Kid and others who changed to synthetic...

I have 132,000+ on my engine... Had it just since it had 129,000. (well, that's what the odometer reads.... the guy mentioned something about the engine being changed at 60,000 miles due to fire?? but i can find nothing to confirm / deny this)

I am interested in changing over, but i noticed that some of you have mentioned changing valve seals and other work you needed to do. I'm not really interested in pulling this engine apart to do such a job-- as it is my only car to drive, and at this point i don't have a garage to do it in... (i'm @ college).

What are the risks involved in changing... will i need to do work like change valve seals?

camaro6spd

1 a year huh? That seems to INSANE...LOL U have K/N oil filters.....same thing as AMSOILS? It is true that alot of oil contamints come the the atomosphere.....sorry for th really bad spellling an such i ma really sick and can hardly see, but i am really bored too.
You are also only seeing 29 people here....I bet the majority of our 10,000 members use Dino. I am mean f it, I am just running around in a 14 year old car that "Italian retards out crusin" drive right???

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I had never driven the car because the donor was a totaled rear-ender, so I wasn't sure what shape the engine was in. I went ahead and changed it over when I put it in the '82, watched the oil level and things like smoke at startup, etc. I had blue smoke at warm startup, used a quart in 600 miles, so I went ahead and changed the valve seals. Solved both problems.

If it isn't blowing blue smoke at startup or using a lot of oil now, you aren't taking a big risk changing it over. The consumption might be a little higher for the first change, but that's normal and shouldn't be cause for concern. Changing the seals isn't too big a deal, and is a typical SBC problem when the engine's been on petroleum for any length of time.

2vmodular

ahhh, an amsoil believer. your study is far from scientific with n=1.

claims of "no mechanical failure due to lubrication" are rather vague, and do not accuaretly reflect the actual condition of internal engine components. an engine can be worn far beyond factory specs and still appear to run acceptably to the vehicle operator.

as for combustion gasses in the oil, keep in mind that engines are specifically designed to leak at a controlled rate around parts such as rings & valve seals.

it would be very interesting to see the lab results from analysis of the old oil removed from your engine.

Danno

Ahhh, I love a good oil discussion. I have researched this subject for years and collected data from almost every major oil company. 5-7 points out (correctly) that combustion by- products are not an issue if using an extended change interval, however the type of driving the vehicle gets can be an issue. In my case I rarely get out on the highway, most are very short trips. I probably don't run it hard enough to adequately vent the crankcase . That is why I use time vs. mileage. This is why this type of driving is labeled "severe service" and is why the drain interval is 3k for "Dino". My neighbors company manufactures aircraft refueling trucks and the pumps are run by the vehicle engine, hence they go twenty four hours a day. They did oil analysis after the equiv. of 25k using Mobil1 and with the exception of some small degree of contaminate the oil met all it's specs. Looking at AMSOIL specs they maintain a 25k schedule for passenger cars with gas engines. With the category of high-perf. they say to use analysis as the interval factor. Diesels are a different animal because of the sulfur content in the fuel. BY the way the API letter "S" officially stands for "service". This is oil for gas engines, "C" is "commercial" suitable for diesel engines. When you look at the quality of all modern oils I truly believe that if reasonable service schedules are maintained it is probably not a significant factor in our engines life. By the way, my first oil change was probably around(I'm Thinking) sometime after the second world war. Or so it seems. Danno

82camaro

I switched to synthetic in my 91 Jimmy with 148000 miles--it had absolutely no leaks. After 2 oil changes it start leaking from the rear main seal. I switched back to dino juice and after around 2500 miles(next oil change) no leaks from the rear main seal. I could fix the seal, but If I'm going to tear into a high mileage engine I would much rather drive it with cheaper dino juice until it finally quits. Oh, and it runs great and burn no oil(small puff of smoke on start-up. Synthetic is better, but if you don't push dino juice past it's limit(strength and oil change interval) you probably won't notice any addtional wear with the dino juice. This is probably why we(I) see alot of dino juice cars with quite a few miles.

88'camaro305TBI

iTrader: (2)

I use synthetic also but i don't really look at the milage. I change it by looking at the oil on the dipstick and see how dirty it is. I won't let it go beyond 3,500 miles though, sometimes i change sooner depending on the color. Anyone else here use this method?

Fred91TA

I'm not sure about switching to synthetic, but nothing but Mobil 1 goes into my car. It has 110,000 miles and has had the Mobil 1 changed religiously since new. The inside of my valve covers look like bare metal with a film of clean oil over it. It doesn't leak oil anywhere and it doesn't burn oil. It's in as good a shape as any internally untouched engine with 110,000 miles could possibly be.
:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

70Firebird

I got 190,000 on my engine and not burning a drop. Just confirmed today that by replacing my 8 plugs. I just follow the oil/filter change every 3000 miles.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

In 1989, I had an '80 Citation V6 oil pump commit suicide at 150k miles. I drove it about 5 miles stop&go before I heard the lifters clattering. When I dropped the pan, the crank bearings still had a film of oil on them and plastigaged within factory specs. I replaced the pump, the car was driven between my brother and me for another 100k before the body fell off around the engine. (I'm leaving out a lot of details about the pump failure for the sake of space, but it was NOT due to lubrication!)

Like I said, I've been using AMSOIL since 1983, have had numerous vehicles in that time, and have a bunch of family and friends who have also used it. I'll expand my statement about failures to say "no lubricated component wear-outs". Although just a "testimonial", it is a significant claim that no lubrication-related wear-outs have occurred amoung those whom I have known who used AMSOIL exclusively.

I don't do regular analysis, but the last one I did after one year/18k miles said "Acceptable for continued use".

Remain skeptical if you like. The only person you're hurting is yourself.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

"S" means "spark ignition" and "C" means "compression ignition". In other words, "S" means gasoline engines and "C" means diesel engines.

Danno

As I said, this is as bad as religion and politics! I would refer you to the API website but I will quote"the letter "s" followed by another letter(for example SJ) refers to oil suitable for gasoline engines. The letter"C" followed by another letter and/or number(for example, CH-4) refers to oil suitable for diesel engines. These letters officially stand for "SERVICE" and "COMMERCIAL"". This is directly from API and refers to the donut information on the container. Check it out at www.api.org. Danno