kevin-design

Okay, so Monday is my last opporutnity to pass Chicago emissions before they suspend my cars' liscense and its a pain to get it to emissions once that happens. So, I'm doing everything I can to get it to pass. Last attempt, it failed only the extra hydrocarbons one. I am replacing the O2 sensor tonight, I was trying to get a new 3" catalytic converter in time to install by monday, but it seems that it won't arrive in time, so plan b is to use some flexible exhaust tubing to connect what's left of my old cat and piping (2.25") to the currently installed 3" muffler and pipes in back. I will re-do it later. I heard tonight that it would be a good idea to replace (or at least test) the coolant sensor also. I plan on using some of the slick-50 engine cleaner, and running though a tank by monday. I know there are a number of ways to "cheat" emissions with temporary additives, but I want to know what actually works, and what is urban legend. (bring on the cheating!). I plan on also having a nice hot engine for my next test and running aamoco ultimate. What else can I do?
thanks!
-Kevin

rezinn

Don't use engine cleaner before you take the test, it will increase your emissions. Make sure you run it fully through before the test if you do use it. Hydrocarbons are unburned gasoline, so you may be running rich, may need a tune up, may need a new coolant temp sensor. The cat is very important here because it converts hydrocarbons to co2 and water.. so you need to make sure you get a good one.

kevin-design

Again, I WON'T get my new cat in time for emissions, so that's why I'm looking to wing it here. I just got though hooking up the exhaust temporarily, that flex-pipe worked well, but it' still running off the old cat. I hope it's in decent shape but I have my doubts.

One additional thing that I forgot to mention in my original post: Using tips from this forum, I modified my TBI unit to increase the fuel pressure a little (drilling the hole and adjusting the screw). I didn't make any major adjustment, but I wanted to bump it up a little to compensate for the fact that this is a 350 block using the stock induction from a 305 engine. I don't have a means to test the fuel pressure myself, but it *should* be a tiny bit higher than it was when it was running my 305 block.

*also- i'm going back out again to try switching out the 02 sensor, last time I couldn't find it on the exh. manifold. Where is the little bugger specifically?

Thanks!
-Kevin

ChevyLuva3

Run racing alchohol and retard your timing.

86Tra/maro

Instead of rushing ahead with the old cat on the car, I would just wait until the new cat arrives, have it installed & then take the test! I can tell u this much for sure. If u go down there & fail the test because of the old cat not doing its job youre going to just hate yourself for that! If u need your car for work drive it & hope that there is no road block for valid Reg. stickers. Do this until u get the cat.

kevin-design

No can do. The liscense is officially yanked if I don't pass on or before this coming monday. My new cat won't be here by then, so I'm stuck. I'm just going to do the best I can with the old one. Here's what I learned at the emissions testing place today (trying to get an extension): You are violating the law if you change your engine or have it changed to ANYTHING other than stock!!! I had asked the guy if I could update my record to reflect my engine swap- thinking that more cubes=proportional emissions accomodation. I was pretty shocked to hear this news, but managed to just take my paperwork and go. Is this guy for real? Anyone?

In other news: I just checked my trouble codes, and though I have seen the check engine come on on occasion in the past few months- it's doesn't currently have any stored codes. Should I still replace the 02 sensor? Would the ECM pick up a bad one? How can I test?

Thanks for any help!
-Kevin

Ukraine Train

there's an additive called all-u-need by bardahl's. it's $6 and they guarantee you pass the test or double your money back. put it in a full tank and take the test when it's almost empty. i used this in a car that failed along with new plugs, wires and pcv and it passed. i dunno if it was the additive or the tune up or both that made it pass, though.

mattRS

a buddy of mine uses that bardahl's stuff in his grand national running straight pipes and has never had a problem. like chevyluva said, retard your timing, but also turn down your fuel pressure. less fuel=less emissions. last i checked they sold that bardahl's stuff at O'Reilly's.

kevin-design

I saw some stuff that sounds almost exactly the same- to the point that they will refund you double the difference if you don't pass emissions. I don't think it was bardahl's though, but the name was something similar. I think it may be the same stuff, but branded differently for us midwesterners (northerners?). Anyway, it's great that you support both those points. I would like to encourage anyone else reading this thread to chime in even if just to support one of the previous suggestions listed simply because it adds credibility. Also, I would like to hear people state what rumored fixes are proven NOT to work.
What do you guys think about:

1. Alcohol/Racing Fuel
2. High-octane/octane booster/additives
3. Slick 50 additive/engine cleaner
4. Gumout pre-oil change treatment
5. Sensors? (still deciding whether or not to install 02- current one seems fine)
6. Timing- (retard to what setting?)
7. Fuel pressure- (again what setting?)
8. Various mystical/magical potions and auto folklore.

Keep in mind that I passed all categories last time except excess hydros. Thanks for the help, please keep it coming!
-Kevin

Synapsis

I've heard of this in California on vehicles after a certain year, but not in my state of Arizona. That would really suck.

If you're failing because of too many Hydrocarbons, I think using octane booster would compound the problem. I dunno too much about the other ideas. Some engine shops around here have a sniffer, and people go there to have their cars tuned (detuned) just to pass emissions... then take it right back after the test to set everything back.

mattRS

i dont know why racing gas would help...its higher octane so it seems to me(seems is the key word there, so dont flame me if im wrong) that race gas would cause higher emissions.

2vmodular

HC is unburned fuel.

would start by checking ignition system for problems. worn spark plugs, oil fouled plugs, bad wires, faulty coil, etc. could cause excessive HC emissions.

also check fuel delivery system for problems such as a bad pressure regulator, faulty injectors, failed computer sensors, etc.

change oil before smog check too. even in the best of engines, some blowby gases escape into the crankcase oil.

Vader

Kevin,

In your last post about this problem, I advised that you check/change you O² sensor. Guess that one must have passed by you...

And forget about the Amoco Ultimate. IIRC, they are still using MTBE for the oxgenating additive for the crap coming from the south side refineries. Use any off-brand premium that has 10% ethanol instead. It will burn a lot cooler and cleaner.

Hook up you cat converter ASAP and run the car as much as you can afterward (before testing) to burn the cat hot enough to light it off and get the catalyst active again.

Get your fuel pressure back to normal again.

Test the CTS to make sure it is reporting the correct coolant temperature to the ECM.

Make sure you have a hot thermostat installed.

Clean the throttle body, IAC, and PCV system. The PCV admits quite a bit of air and leans the mixture more than you might believe.


Yes, while it may not be illegal to alter your engine, it must still meet the emissions standards for the model year and engine that was originally installed in the vehilce. Howsoever the guy that you spoke with in the garage interprets that law is his problem. Isn't it great? Everyone in the Great State of Chicago apparently doesn't understand the federal mandate. It's bad enough to have to live in Ill-noise with all the other crap we have to endure - you get the priviledge of living in Cook county as well.

Good luck on the sniffer. Remember to get some penetrating oil on the O² sensor well in advance of trying to remove it.

Steve89GTA

I did my emission test last year on my 89 GTA. With a dynomax highflow cat, new 8mm taylors, bosch platinum plugs (new!), new ignition coil, A/C fan disconnected to let car run warmer (was 35' F outside) not good with 160deg thermo...new PCV and fuel injectors cleaned 5 months prior...My HC reading was 0.43...guess what the legal limit is 0.43 here in Toronto. WTF, why isn't my car burning the gas? I think it's a conspiracy and lack of planning on the govenerments side concerning this standard. Isn't .43 extremely low? especially for a 14 year old car???
What's the HC limit in your areas?
Anyways, I got the pass cause it tied the limit but next year...there's no way I'm gonna snake it.

Oh, and entire distrubor including cap and rotor are NEW as well..not rebuilt, NEW. Car runs and starts perfectly. Doesn't smoke either. I have an autometer oil temp guage and the oil was warm enough and so was the coolant before I brought it in.
One thing though, my AIR pump isn't connected. I was thinking of running the AIR from the pump directly to the CAT (my diverter valve is toast)... Would this help? It would increase the amount of Oxygen in the exhaust that's for sure. My other two exhaust readings were low.
oops, Oxygen sensor is 3000 miles old.

darbleinad

Steve,

whats the deal with the emissions testing here in Ontario?...i have my license renewed till 2003 and i live out in the countrty...but in 2003 my car will be 19 and i think it still has to be tested (provided my area has the testing by then...it likely will). i removed the emissions stuff when i bought it in 2000 (i knew full well i may need to pass emissions someday, but i hoped to have an answer to that problem by then) and i was wondering if there were any exemptions to gettting tested (ie a "hot rod" or "performance" classifcation)?

thanks

Steve89GTA

When your car reaches 20 years of age (MODEL YEAR), it is no longer required to take the emissions test. Note, a friend of mine was in a similar bind as you (19 year old car) and he argued that it was manufactured the year before (as most cars are) and convinced the dude at the Ministry of Trans counter. .... Only 2 weeks later he got a letter saying his car required an emissions test.
The laws are strict as hell. Someone here mentioned that our emissoins test limits are modelled after the california ones...bad news. If you fail (which you probably will)...sit out the year and you'll be home free after that. I can't wait till my car is 20years old when I can finally remove the catalytic and get some long tube headers...hee hee.

darbleinad

hahahah...i was actually thinking about the whole arguing it was made the year before trick...thats great......yeah i guess if there is no way around it i will have to just take the car off the road and keep fire and theft on it. there is not a chance in hell that i would pass...there is no emissions stuff on the car.

what i didnt realize was how tough the actual standards are...that just sucks...

thanks for the info

kevin-design

Okay, so tomorrow's the big day. As I'd feared, my new catalytic converter won't be here in time, but rather than buy a crappy little one to temporarily install, I will just take the test- and if I fail, they pull the liscense. No big deal, I get my new cat, install, (get a temporary waiver to drive) re-take the test (and pass?!), then they re-instate the liscense. That's my plan anyway. Still, it would make it a lot easier on me if I passed w/o a new cat. Therefore, I have applied some of the advice on the forum and within the last month I have replaced or repaired:
Air Filter
Oil Filter
Crankcase filter
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump Filter
Fuel Pump
PCV valve
Changed oil
Distributor cap/rotor (cleaned out- was quite dirty)
New Exhaust system- not including cat or Y-pipe.
Added Slick-50 oil and gas additives- burned entire tank as instructed.

Prior to tomorrows test, I plan to:
doublecheck the O2 and coolant sensors to verify they are working properly

Maybe change to bosch 4x plugs (like splitfires but 4 contacts)
Lower fuel pressure via my now "adjustable" regulator- might need to get a gauge to see what I'm setting it to.
Retard timing (what setting?)
Cardboard the radiator and drive around until engine is nice & hot.

It sounds like octane addtives are a bad idea- I know that fuel system cleaners (additives) would make things worse if they're still in the tank during the test. Are there any additives that would be wise to put in the tank for the test?

What pressure do you recommend setting the fuel at?
What timing should I retard to?

Also- for the record, my car seems to be pretty happy about all the attention as it is running stronger as a result. Hopefully it will pay off tomorrow. Any last minute tips? Thanks!
-Kevin

farm-kid/88camaro

Heres what i've found out about the "Hot-rod" clause


The "Hot Rod" Clause as they call it is for cars which currently have an engine in them which was NOT available in that type of car.
To pass as a hot rod the levels are much more forgiving, and the only emissions equipment required is a working gas cap, cat converters are not.

What you need to do to pass is tell them that you've got something like say a 383, or a 334 (whatever a stroked 305 is).

From what i've learned this will get you into the hot rod catagory as this is now a different sized motor. Give it a shot, it may work for some, it did for me.
You can always argue with them and say you want them to prove to you it is not what you say it is. This will involve pulling the heads, which they're not going to want to pay to have done.

any questions, just ask
i've learnt more than i wanted to on this subject, the e-test drove me nuts.

darbleinad

so farm-kid,

if i have to get my 84 Trans Am (305, 4bbl., no emissions stuff) tested, i just go into an "accredited emission testing facility" and tell them i have 335 stroker (i have seen these stroker kits advertised for the 305) and they will put me into the "Hot Rod" classification? and if not i just keep arguing or show them a fake receipt for the machine work or soemthing and this is all i need to do? and then i can pass no problem?....seeing as i do have a working gas cap.

thanks for the good info...........

by the way, what shop did you get your car tested?...because i would be willing to drive to Woodstock to get my car tested if the need arises

thanks

farm-kid/88camaro

ya, that would be what i'd do first. Im sure it will take quite abit of arguing to convince them but it may work. Your other option is to tell them is a 400 small block, and if they're lazy enough they wont check, i believe the casting #'s are on the back of the block?

I actually did it at a local guys shop that wasnt in woodstock, he was pretty understanding of my situation, and it helped that my brother knew him. He did say that the others should have to test it as a hotrod if you told them it was a 383 for example. My motor is down as a 5.8, which it is being a 355.

Try you luck with a few local guys, im not sure which route is the better one to go, i might actually try to 400 first.

Good luck, its an agonizing process
I ended up failing the hotrod test, but my car was very out of tune. Next time i imagine i'll have very few probs

If this doesnt work out for ya, private msg me and i'll try to dig up the guys name for ya

darbleinad

thanks for the info man...i am currently good till next year...but when that time rolls around i am in serious trouble if i cant find away around the testing.....so i am starting to do research right now to figure out how to weasel my way out this.

thanks again

farm-kid/88camaro

check out the ontario board, they've got a discussion going on over there...
sounds like some of the laws may have changed.....
check it out

MrNova

Um, just out of curiousity. I don't live in Canada, but here in NJ we have something called $20 to your local mechanic=emissions pass, hehe. Well now its more like $40, but you guys get my point.

darbleinad

believe me Mr. Nova, i have thought about bribing a mechanic...except the guy i go to doesn't have the emissions testing stuff cause it is very expensive to purchase. so i dont really know any other mechanics/shops...so i am not sure if can find someone to do it. i have been asking around and looking for some shops that will just give me a pass.

but thanks for the suggestion..becasue really just bribing someone would be the easiest way

thanks

farm-kid/88camaro

just a thought about bribing, its hard to find anyone to do it. These guys have alot of money invested in these machines and dont want to risk it, trust me, i've tried.
Another problem with that is the computer in whereever, toronto or whatever, control wheather you fail or pass, so essentially you'd have to put a different vehicle on in order to trick it.

I think a 50 might convince a few of the smaller guys

darbleinad

wow i didnt realize the actual data for each test was sent to a central computer to determine pass/fail. but it makes complete sense if they want to avoid things like bribes and such. this emissions stuff just keeps getting more complicated.

thanks for the info

camaro6spd

I had to pay $100 , but it worked, the sniffer sniffed a Impala SS , insead of my car. That is how it works. Took me 3 different shops to get it to someone who would pass it. Oh well, it is not like i am running wround with a superpolluting car forever, just untill the summer when I can put the new engine in there.

89formula#1

hey MRNOVA i live in NJ also i live in the cinnaminson area. Where are u from? i am look to pass emissions and if u could let me know wut shop u go to i would really appreciate it thanks alot man

Kingtal0n

My old engine, 355 with a huge cam, 245/255 @ .050 for circle track / bracket racing...
Of course theres no emmisions crap on it...
but I passed!
how you say? Well you see theres this stuff called denatured alchohol (i think) and it came in a clear bottle without a label ("from a friend") 2 of those things in a 1/4 filled tank and a little timing retard (to make the car less "lopey") and i pass!
I hear alchohol / water injection also helps your emmisions ALOT. supposedly, alchohol is cleaner burning than propane even, and propane is clean enough to breath after being burnt (obviouselly)----
good luck!

Vader

Well?

Either Kevin passed and is out partying and tearing up the Chi-Town streets, or he is cuffed and collared and sitting in the Cook County graybar hotel....

Any word?

ragtopcaprice

What kind of gas are you using,hopefully it's not regular. I don't know where you're at but in the old days we used to run Amoco premium (white gas) about a tankful,then the car would run clean. Try to find out if there's a 76 station around, they are the one's who bought Amoco, maybe they're gas is close to the old Amoco. I can't believe they would pull your license just for a few hydrocarbons.Looks like we have to go out and vote to get these idiots out of office, we pay so they can drive in new cars, then make legislation to get us out of our cars, maybe if they had to buy there own cars and maintain them, they would know what the real world has to put up with.