HP Books SUCK!!!
02-09-2002, 12:28 PM
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HP Books SUCK!!!
I've got a pontiac engine and a 305 and deciding which one to put in my car (not the 305). Oh, I guess I just decided. Ok, so I've got a "How to rebuild your Small block. . . blah blah" but I can't find a Pontiac one. Since it's GM, is it all the same?
Take care,
Jon
Take care,
Jon
02-09-2002, 12:58 PM
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Car: 1982 Z28
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
I don't think you have enough data to conclude on HP Books' sucking or not.
Pontiac and Chevy engines are different designs, don't know which specific Poncho you have but I've worked with their 400ci engine and didn't resemble Chevy SBs at all. If you're considering dropping a Pontiac engine into a 3rd gen, you may have some fabrication work ahead of you. Engine mounts may not match up, trans bellhousing bolt pattern is likely different, accessory locations may be different, etc.
If you want a book that covers all engines, buy one of the generic Chilton engine repair ones...and you'll *really* know about what sucks when you're done reading it.
Do a search on Amazon under "Pontiac" and see if there's a book.
Pontiac and Chevy engines are different designs, don't know which specific Poncho you have but I've worked with their 400ci engine and didn't resemble Chevy SBs at all. If you're considering dropping a Pontiac engine into a 3rd gen, you may have some fabrication work ahead of you. Engine mounts may not match up, trans bellhousing bolt pattern is likely different, accessory locations may be different, etc.
If you want a book that covers all engines, buy one of the generic Chilton engine repair ones...and you'll *really* know about what sucks when you're done reading it.
Do a search on Amazon under "Pontiac" and see if there's a book.
02-09-2002, 10:17 PM
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Yes, I know about the motor mounts and stuff and all that other stuf like how the starter is on the other side etc. . . . I said that HP books suck because they don't have any rebuild books for pontiac engines. I mean, I know how to rebuild an engine, but are pontiac engines something I SHOULD go out and buy a book for? Or is it pretty much the same as an SBC?
02-10-2002, 12:26 AM
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JMB,
There are a LOT of books on building Pontiac engines, but most of them were printed some time ago. They are NOT the same as Chevrolet SBC nor BBC engines, and each of them has their own quirks. Pontiacs tend to make their power at lower RPMs due to a generally longer stroke and rods, and can be serious torque monsters depending on displacement. Chevrolets tend to rev a little higher and have a flatter torque curve. That isn't to say that either engine can't be built for either purpose, but it is just a tendancy. I had a 326 Poncho that would smoke most 327 Chevys at the line but couldn't keep it up past 5,000 RPM. It did do well enough to run over 75 MPH in first gear, however.
You likely won't find a four-bolt Pontiac case, because they never needed one. The main journals on the Poncho blocks are so friggin' big the numnber of bolts is irrelevant. Pontiac V-8s (even the small ones) have rod and main journals larger than even the Chevrolet Big Block engines. The 455 Poncho is a full half-inch larger in the mains diameter, and they are wider than the BBC 454 journals as well. They are some very stout bottom ends.
Because of that, the cranks are also more massive. That can be a plus for strength but a detriment for accelleration rates. The rods are way different and generally almost an inch longer, which translates to more torque. The deck heights are necessarily taller, thus the larger case design. Along with the larger journals, the wrist pins journals are larger and wider. The design in undeniably slanted toward lots of torque and stability. The case is very strong but heavy and physically large.
The stock head design is actually better than the SBC heads in some ways, with massive port volumes and valve sizes that can be impressive by SBC standards (2.11"/1.77" is pretty standard). Valve springs are generally larger and longer, allowing for more lift. Push rods are necessarily longer due to the deck height and head size, which makes teh valve train heavier but more resistant to thrust wear.
Generally, GM almost had is backward. Pontiac should have built the truck engines and Chevrolet should have built the car engines. They would have been better suited to the tasks. The Pontiac blocks are more like the tall-deck BBC truck engines than anything else, and were just about as worthy of the torque output. With a lot of weight reduction, they can rev up very nicely, too.
Unfortunately, the selection of aftermarket parts is not anywhere near as extensive, including intakes, headers, pistons, cams, etc.
Your choice, but I can almost guarantee the Poncho is going to be more expensive to build and operate, let alone the problem of getting it to meet emissions standards if you have to.
The lack of availabiltiy of books is the least of your worries in deciding which to build, especially when you consider used 350 SBC engines are so readily and cheaply available.
There are a LOT of books on building Pontiac engines, but most of them were printed some time ago. They are NOT the same as Chevrolet SBC nor BBC engines, and each of them has their own quirks. Pontiacs tend to make their power at lower RPMs due to a generally longer stroke and rods, and can be serious torque monsters depending on displacement. Chevrolets tend to rev a little higher and have a flatter torque curve. That isn't to say that either engine can't be built for either purpose, but it is just a tendancy. I had a 326 Poncho that would smoke most 327 Chevys at the line but couldn't keep it up past 5,000 RPM. It did do well enough to run over 75 MPH in first gear, however.
You likely won't find a four-bolt Pontiac case, because they never needed one. The main journals on the Poncho blocks are so friggin' big the numnber of bolts is irrelevant. Pontiac V-8s (even the small ones) have rod and main journals larger than even the Chevrolet Big Block engines. The 455 Poncho is a full half-inch larger in the mains diameter, and they are wider than the BBC 454 journals as well. They are some very stout bottom ends.
Because of that, the cranks are also more massive. That can be a plus for strength but a detriment for accelleration rates. The rods are way different and generally almost an inch longer, which translates to more torque. The deck heights are necessarily taller, thus the larger case design. Along with the larger journals, the wrist pins journals are larger and wider. The design in undeniably slanted toward lots of torque and stability. The case is very strong but heavy and physically large.
The stock head design is actually better than the SBC heads in some ways, with massive port volumes and valve sizes that can be impressive by SBC standards (2.11"/1.77" is pretty standard). Valve springs are generally larger and longer, allowing for more lift. Push rods are necessarily longer due to the deck height and head size, which makes teh valve train heavier but more resistant to thrust wear.
Generally, GM almost had is backward. Pontiac should have built the truck engines and Chevrolet should have built the car engines. They would have been better suited to the tasks. The Pontiac blocks are more like the tall-deck BBC truck engines than anything else, and were just about as worthy of the torque output. With a lot of weight reduction, they can rev up very nicely, too.
Unfortunately, the selection of aftermarket parts is not anywhere near as extensive, including intakes, headers, pistons, cams, etc.
Your choice, but I can almost guarantee the Poncho is going to be more expensive to build and operate, let alone the problem of getting it to meet emissions standards if you have to.
The lack of availabiltiy of books is the least of your worries in deciding which to build, especially when you consider used 350 SBC engines are so readily and cheaply available.
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