First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
09-12-2024, 07:40 PM
#1
First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
Hello, first time poster and on mobile, apologies for any typos/errors. Also apologize for the long read. TL;DR and summarized list at the bottom
Little bit of back story, i was recently gifted a 1989 transam GTA 5.7L V8,(skippable useless info ahead) i have never built an engine for performance, nor have i tore down an engine fully. I have only done repairs at the time of needing them in my personal vehicles, i am a novice in the world of motors. (For those interested, so far i have dropped a tranny 3 seperate times, fully replaced it once, replaced starters/alternators, fuel pump, Tie rods, and less complicated/common repairs) So i have surface level experience but nothing like rebuilding the top end. Also plan on learning how to rebuild trannys soon. That being said, eventually i want to turn this transam into something i can have alot of fun at a strip with. Ever since it was gifted to me, my brain says "gotta go fast" on repeat lol. (Also have never drag raced...yet) My final vision is twin tubo with possible supercharger as well? Idk if that works. But its for the distant future.
To start, i want to rebuild the engine and go ahead and do upgrades that i will need further down the road when i turbo it, such as upgrading the crank, heads, pistons, and etc. where do i start? What are some suggested brands/parts? This is a long term project so im not too worried about cost as i will buy it piece by piece if i must. However i dont want the final cost being more than 10k if i can help it. What are the most suggest reading materials? Im stepping into the performance world for the first time and feel like a kid in a candy store, i see so much that i want but i dont know if itll all work together, or if i upgrade one thing, what has to be upgraded as well to accommodate it? Any and all help is appreciated. I also dont fully know the name of every part in a engine or what they do exactly so any reading material on that would be nice. Last thing, i already plan to reinforce the body with sfc, but for the transmission, can i upgrade it or do i need to replace the transmission? I want 700-1000hp out of this car when its all said and done. It will be done incrementally since im a novice, im not jumping from normal daily drivers to a 1000hp beast, i know i would **** up immediately from lack of experience.
TL;DR: got gifted a 89 trans am gta, fairly new to mechanic work, want to build drag car
Summed up list of what the post is asking
1)reading material on how to build an engine/where to start
2)reading material on every engine part and what it does
3)suggested order of upgrades
4)i want to upgrade the crank, pistons, heads, etc.(top end) what else do i have to upgrade to accommodate those and suggested parts for top end.
5)can i upgrade the trans or do i need to swap it
EDIT: 6) various good trustworthy part suppliers would be helpful
Little bit of back story, i was recently gifted a 1989 transam GTA 5.7L V8,(skippable useless info ahead) i have never built an engine for performance, nor have i tore down an engine fully. I have only done repairs at the time of needing them in my personal vehicles, i am a novice in the world of motors. (For those interested, so far i have dropped a tranny 3 seperate times, fully replaced it once, replaced starters/alternators, fuel pump, Tie rods, and less complicated/common repairs) So i have surface level experience but nothing like rebuilding the top end. Also plan on learning how to rebuild trannys soon. That being said, eventually i want to turn this transam into something i can have alot of fun at a strip with. Ever since it was gifted to me, my brain says "gotta go fast" on repeat lol. (Also have never drag raced...yet) My final vision is twin tubo with possible supercharger as well? Idk if that works. But its for the distant future.
To start, i want to rebuild the engine and go ahead and do upgrades that i will need further down the road when i turbo it, such as upgrading the crank, heads, pistons, and etc. where do i start? What are some suggested brands/parts? This is a long term project so im not too worried about cost as i will buy it piece by piece if i must. However i dont want the final cost being more than 10k if i can help it. What are the most suggest reading materials? Im stepping into the performance world for the first time and feel like a kid in a candy store, i see so much that i want but i dont know if itll all work together, or if i upgrade one thing, what has to be upgraded as well to accommodate it? Any and all help is appreciated. I also dont fully know the name of every part in a engine or what they do exactly so any reading material on that would be nice. Last thing, i already plan to reinforce the body with sfc, but for the transmission, can i upgrade it or do i need to replace the transmission? I want 700-1000hp out of this car when its all said and done. It will be done incrementally since im a novice, im not jumping from normal daily drivers to a 1000hp beast, i know i would **** up immediately from lack of experience.
TL;DR: got gifted a 89 trans am gta, fairly new to mechanic work, want to build drag car
Summed up list of what the post is asking
1)reading material on how to build an engine/where to start
2)reading material on every engine part and what it does
3)suggested order of upgrades
4)i want to upgrade the crank, pistons, heads, etc.(top end) what else do i have to upgrade to accommodate those and suggested parts for top end.
5)can i upgrade the trans or do i need to swap it
EDIT: 6) various good trustworthy part suppliers would be helpful
Last edited by Mind_Phazer; 09-12-2024 at 08:06 PM.
09-12-2024, 09:40 PM
#2
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Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
That's too open-ended to answer.
How long is a stick?
Something like that.
doesn't belong in the same book, let alone Internet post, with
That's COMPLETELY in fantasy land. Hell, my wife is on Fast Track all the time, and her max bid for stuff most times is $0.17; I doubt SHE could even come up with JUST THE PARTS for $10k, even at that little per piece. You're asking how somebody making McDonalds money can move into Brentwood or Calabasas or Malibu. Fantasy land.
To start out with, you're about at the point of a baby taking its first steps, to planning for the 100m dash at the next Olympics. One Internet post isn't going to get you from leisurely one-afternoon driveway level repairs like changing an alternator to that sort of thing. Time to get realistic.
Tell us a bit more about what's going on here. What are your goals? (HP, ET, lap times, "fun driving in the country with my SO on a pretty Sunday afternoon", etc.) What's your budget? (REALLY; not pie in the sky) What's the time frame? What tools do you have? How much time do you have to work on it? (pressures from job, school, family, ???) How good are you at tuning? Wiring? Plumbing? Math? Any moron (hell, even I) can drop a motor that makes however much horsepower into a car; what about making it hook up? Last? Stop? Turn? How nice is the car now? How bad are you willing to tear it up and risk it turning into a yard ornament? Do you want the AC to work? Retain the rear seat? Glass windows (HEAVY) or acrylic (no way to drive it on the street for a whole day)? How much of the interior are you willing to gut? You DO realize that the engine you have now (SBC dating back to 1955) will be TOTALLY outclassed in every manner way shape form and fashion by newer engines such as the LS series? And so forth.
I'd suggest that rather than reading books about engine building, that you just kinda surf sites like this one, LS1Tech, YellowBullet, ChevyTalk, and so on, and kinda get a feel for what others have experienced.
How long is a stick?
Something like that.
twin tubo with possible supercharger as well
i dont want the final cost being more than 10k if i can help it
To start out with, you're about at the point of a baby taking its first steps, to planning for the 100m dash at the next Olympics. One Internet post isn't going to get you from leisurely one-afternoon driveway level repairs like changing an alternator to that sort of thing. Time to get realistic.
Tell us a bit more about what's going on here. What are your goals? (HP, ET, lap times, "fun driving in the country with my SO on a pretty Sunday afternoon", etc.) What's your budget? (REALLY; not pie in the sky) What's the time frame? What tools do you have? How much time do you have to work on it? (pressures from job, school, family, ???) How good are you at tuning? Wiring? Plumbing? Math? Any moron (hell, even I) can drop a motor that makes however much horsepower into a car; what about making it hook up? Last? Stop? Turn? How nice is the car now? How bad are you willing to tear it up and risk it turning into a yard ornament? Do you want the AC to work? Retain the rear seat? Glass windows (HEAVY) or acrylic (no way to drive it on the street for a whole day)? How much of the interior are you willing to gut? You DO realize that the engine you have now (SBC dating back to 1955) will be TOTALLY outclassed in every manner way shape form and fashion by newer engines such as the LS series? And so forth.
I'd suggest that rather than reading books about engine building, that you just kinda surf sites like this one, LS1Tech, YellowBullet, ChevyTalk, and so on, and kinda get a feel for what others have experienced.
Last edited by sofakingdom; 09-12-2024 at 10:57 PM.
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09-12-2024, 11:01 PM
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Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
If you do it incrementally, sure it's possible. I think the best way to make sure you're getting bang for your buck is to avoid having to do things over again. The challenge is that when you're doing something for the first time, you'll make mistakes. My advice is to treat it like a process, have fun with the "journey" part of it, and just gradually improve. Improve the car, improve your driving, improve your instincts and knowledge.
You can do it with a small block. You'll want a forged bottom end, as much cubes as you can get on a budget, and decent heads that have room for growth (read: can be ported later). You won't want to try and maximize N/A performance at the expense of working in the future for boost. So probably lower compression and a smaller, lower-overlap cam, and bigger heads. Heads are going to be the most important part for making power. The forged bottom end is just table stakes if you want to eventually hit 600+ HP with boost.
To get you started on the budget part, here's what you're looking at for just a quality crank and rods.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-435337505700
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-crs6000bst
As you can tell, it's going to get expensive in a hurry. So be prepared for that.
I'd also suggest going aftermarket engine management, just for the sake of finding a tuner who can help you if nothing else. You'll want to decide if you want an auto or manual long-term before you buy that, since it''ll likely dictate which you need. Manuals are fun, but an auto is going to be faster and more consistent.
Supercharger kit will run you about $7K by itself. You'll want to be sure that 1) the engine and driveline can handle it, and 2) you have the engine management (read: fuel and ignition control) to support it.
When you start getting into BIG HP numbers and boost, it all becomes about how much fuel can be delivered. Probably dual pumps, maybe larger lines.
If you have it available locally, I'd plan for E85. It'll be either that or $10-12 per gallon race fuel, if you can find it. E85 means replacing a few fuel lines with PTFE. Maybe your hard lines, depending who you ask.
So...
1) Build a solid bottom end
2) Get a solid drive train
3) Build the engine with headroom to grow
4) Get good engine management
5) Figure out how you're going to deliver the fuel
6) Figure out how you're going to get traction
Hope this gets you started.
You can do it with a small block. You'll want a forged bottom end, as much cubes as you can get on a budget, and decent heads that have room for growth (read: can be ported later). You won't want to try and maximize N/A performance at the expense of working in the future for boost. So probably lower compression and a smaller, lower-overlap cam, and bigger heads. Heads are going to be the most important part for making power. The forged bottom end is just table stakes if you want to eventually hit 600+ HP with boost.
To get you started on the budget part, here's what you're looking at for just a quality crank and rods.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-435337505700
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-crs6000bst
As you can tell, it's going to get expensive in a hurry. So be prepared for that.
I'd also suggest going aftermarket engine management, just for the sake of finding a tuner who can help you if nothing else. You'll want to decide if you want an auto or manual long-term before you buy that, since it''ll likely dictate which you need. Manuals are fun, but an auto is going to be faster and more consistent.
Supercharger kit will run you about $7K by itself. You'll want to be sure that 1) the engine and driveline can handle it, and 2) you have the engine management (read: fuel and ignition control) to support it.
When you start getting into BIG HP numbers and boost, it all becomes about how much fuel can be delivered. Probably dual pumps, maybe larger lines.
If you have it available locally, I'd plan for E85. It'll be either that or $10-12 per gallon race fuel, if you can find it. E85 means replacing a few fuel lines with PTFE. Maybe your hard lines, depending who you ask.
So...
1) Build a solid bottom end
2) Get a solid drive train
3) Build the engine with headroom to grow
4) Get good engine management
5) Figure out how you're going to deliver the fuel
6) Figure out how you're going to get traction
Hope this gets you started.
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Mind_Phazer (09-13-2024)
09-13-2024, 01:23 AM
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Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
Wrong order of importance. Here's how your decision tree should REALLY look.
1. Figure out what you REALLY want.
2. Figure out how much you can REALLY spend on it. Like, are you willing to forego college or trade school or apprenticeship or whatever, in effect MORTGAGING THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, to this project? Maybe having "The Car Of Your Dreams" seems like it's worth that, NOW. In 30, 40, 50 years, ... who knows?
3. Figure out how much time you can REALLY spend on it. After you come to grips with question #2, how much of a priority in YOUR life, is this "car" thing, REALLY? Remember, it's not 1954 anymore. Money, life, choices, priorities, ... leave PERMANENT effects.
4. Decide how much of your LIFE you're willing to devote to this "project". Not saying you shouldn't build a nice car; not saying this is A Bad Idea; NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. Only, once you've HONESTLY confronted what "twin tubo with possible supercharger as well" will SUCK OUT OF the whole REST OF YOUR LIFE, is this REALLY the rabbit hole you need to be going down? Maybe you have ALOT more money than I ever did; maybe there's something in your life that totally obliviates the CONSEQUENCES of your decisions; butt I can assure you, if there's NOT, then this is a pipe dream.
5. Determine if "car" is REALLY going to be a life-changing factor for you.Will your social status somehow rise because of "car"? Will whatever unpleasant facts that you DON'T like go away, and PLEASANT ones replace them, because of "car"? I was in a bar once (yeah just once) a little while ago and a girl who was hitting on me (real pretty one I should add) tried to tell ME (a man) that "the first thing a man notices about a girl is her shoes". I lost an almost certain date that night by laughing at her: I told her that "shoes" on a woman were like "car" on a guy; yeah sure, he's gonna look at you, and if you're in public barefoot, he's gonna think you're a skank; butt beyond that, it's like OK you've got some shoes on, let's move on to more important factors. "Car" is like that. OK you've got one. NEXT.
6. Decide if this is the right "car" for your "car" dreams. Are members of the sex you desire, going to FLOCK TO this "car"?
7. Once you've cleared ALL THOSE hurdles, start on "car". Which is NOT, what engine should I build. It's more about THE CAR.
Unless you're willing to confront those kinds of issues HEAD ON, you're headed for disaster.
Forgive me for using the word REAL so much. REALITY is utterly critical. We can talk about 2 kinds of thinking; "normative", and "positive". "Positive" is thinking about things that ARE. Reality in the world as we know it. "Normative" is thinking about things the way we'd like them to be. Both are important; without the "normative" kind of ideas, we'd never make any progress, either as a person or as a species. Butt ignoring "positive" thinking while chasing "normative" leads to all manner of disastrous results. Gotta start from where we ARE before we can REALISTICALLY strive toward where we want to be. Honesty, and leaving off the rose-colored glasses, is the first step.
So I'll ask again:
What are your goals REALLY?
What is your REAL budget?
Is this your only car? If so, how convenient are the bus routes near your house? If not, is it reliable, and will you maintain your sense of urgency toward this one?
What facilities do you have access to? Garage, tools, etc.?
How much time are you able to devote to this?
You'll see that people who start out down this road often end up with their cars irreversibly damaged. AC gone, interior butchered, a "nice" car no longer "nice". Are you willing to accept that for THIS car?
What else are you ready for RIGHT NOW - not "later", not "someday", not "if I need it", not "if it breaks" - what are you willing to devote to THE REST OF the car? Drive train, suspension, brakes, etc. You may not need those things RIGHT NOW, butt I can 110% guarantee you, you WILL, and it will be REAL SOON (there's that "real" word again) and will come at a moment NOT of your choosing. Will you be prepared to deal with all that?
Give us some HONESTY and we can start talking about engines.
1. Figure out what you REALLY want.
2. Figure out how much you can REALLY spend on it. Like, are you willing to forego college or trade school or apprenticeship or whatever, in effect MORTGAGING THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, to this project? Maybe having "The Car Of Your Dreams" seems like it's worth that, NOW. In 30, 40, 50 years, ... who knows?
3. Figure out how much time you can REALLY spend on it. After you come to grips with question #2, how much of a priority in YOUR life, is this "car" thing, REALLY? Remember, it's not 1954 anymore. Money, life, choices, priorities, ... leave PERMANENT effects.
4. Decide how much of your LIFE you're willing to devote to this "project". Not saying you shouldn't build a nice car; not saying this is A Bad Idea; NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. Only, once you've HONESTLY confronted what "twin tubo with possible supercharger as well" will SUCK OUT OF the whole REST OF YOUR LIFE, is this REALLY the rabbit hole you need to be going down? Maybe you have ALOT more money than I ever did; maybe there's something in your life that totally obliviates the CONSEQUENCES of your decisions; butt I can assure you, if there's NOT, then this is a pipe dream.
5. Determine if "car" is REALLY going to be a life-changing factor for you.Will your social status somehow rise because of "car"? Will whatever unpleasant facts that you DON'T like go away, and PLEASANT ones replace them, because of "car"? I was in a bar once (yeah just once) a little while ago and a girl who was hitting on me (real pretty one I should add) tried to tell ME (a man) that "the first thing a man notices about a girl is her shoes". I lost an almost certain date that night by laughing at her: I told her that "shoes" on a woman were like "car" on a guy; yeah sure, he's gonna look at you, and if you're in public barefoot, he's gonna think you're a skank; butt beyond that, it's like OK you've got some shoes on, let's move on to more important factors. "Car" is like that. OK you've got one. NEXT.
6. Decide if this is the right "car" for your "car" dreams. Are members of the sex you desire, going to FLOCK TO this "car"?
7. Once you've cleared ALL THOSE hurdles, start on "car". Which is NOT, what engine should I build. It's more about THE CAR.
Unless you're willing to confront those kinds of issues HEAD ON, you're headed for disaster.
Forgive me for using the word REAL so much. REALITY is utterly critical. We can talk about 2 kinds of thinking; "normative", and "positive". "Positive" is thinking about things that ARE. Reality in the world as we know it. "Normative" is thinking about things the way we'd like them to be. Both are important; without the "normative" kind of ideas, we'd never make any progress, either as a person or as a species. Butt ignoring "positive" thinking while chasing "normative" leads to all manner of disastrous results. Gotta start from where we ARE before we can REALISTICALLY strive toward where we want to be. Honesty, and leaving off the rose-colored glasses, is the first step.
So I'll ask again:
What are your goals REALLY?
What is your REAL budget?
Is this your only car? If so, how convenient are the bus routes near your house? If not, is it reliable, and will you maintain your sense of urgency toward this one?
What facilities do you have access to? Garage, tools, etc.?
How much time are you able to devote to this?
You'll see that people who start out down this road often end up with their cars irreversibly damaged. AC gone, interior butchered, a "nice" car no longer "nice". Are you willing to accept that for THIS car?
What else are you ready for RIGHT NOW - not "later", not "someday", not "if I need it", not "if it breaks" - what are you willing to devote to THE REST OF the car? Drive train, suspension, brakes, etc. You may not need those things RIGHT NOW, butt I can 110% guarantee you, you WILL, and it will be REAL SOON (there's that "real" word again) and will come at a moment NOT of your choosing. Will you be prepared to deal with all that?
Give us some HONESTY and we can start talking about engines.
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09-13-2024, 08:39 AM
#6
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Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
Some very solid advice from Sofa dude above. Couldn't have been any more blunt myself.
09-13-2024, 08:44 AM
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Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
All good advice here. Probably not what you want to hear, but most of us experienced (old) guys have been down this road and have the scars, lighter wallets and unfinished projects to show for it.
Love the enthusiasm, but like sofa said, the questions are much too broad, which is an indicator that you need to scale way back, start small and simple and incrementally work up to bigger and more complex projects on the car.
Let's start with this. What is wrong with the current motor? Does it run? Why do you feel it needs to be rebuilt?
Love the enthusiasm, but like sofa said, the questions are much too broad, which is an indicator that you need to scale way back, start small and simple and incrementally work up to bigger and more complex projects on the car.
Let's start with this. What is wrong with the current motor? Does it run? Why do you feel it needs to be rebuilt?
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09-13-2024, 09:27 AM
#8
Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
Do you know a good engine machine shop? That is usually a big problem for most as they are few and far between any more. The quality of their work and the length of time to get your parts back can be a very big problem for many. Too many horror stories, a lot like trying to get a car painted.
09-13-2024, 11:49 AM
#9
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Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
Again, I see zero issue with starting incrementally, and I think it's cool that you want to do it in a third gen. Better than being the millionth turbo LS foxbody at the track.
There's always going to be someone faster than you anyway. Make it a hobby, more about the journey and gradual improvement, and you'll be much happier in the end. Shoot for 350hp first. You might be surprised how much faster that feels than a stock GTA. Go from there.
There's always going to be someone faster than you anyway. Make it a hobby, more about the journey and gradual improvement, and you'll be much happier in the end. Shoot for 350hp first. You might be surprised how much faster that feels than a stock GTA. Go from there.
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09-13-2024, 07:51 PM
#11
Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
Again, I see zero issue with starting incrementally, and I think it's cool that you want to do it in a third gen. Better than being the millionth turbo LS foxbody at the track.
There's always going to be someone faster than you anyway. Make it a hobby, more about the journey and gradual improvement, and you'll be much happier in the end. Shoot for 350hp first. You might be surprised how much faster that feels than a stock GTA. Go from there.
There's always going to be someone faster than you anyway. Make it a hobby, more about the journey and gradual improvement, and you'll be much happier in the end. Shoot for 350hp first. You might be surprised how much faster that feels than a stock GTA. Go from there.
09-13-2024, 07:58 PM
#12
Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
All good advice here. Probably not what you want to hear, but most of us experienced (old) guys have been down this road and have the scars, lighter wallets and unfinished projects to show for it.
Love the enthusiasm, but like sofa said, the questions are much too broad, which is an indicator that you need to scale way back, start small and simple and incrementally work up to bigger and more complex projects on the car.
Let's start with this. What is wrong with the current motor? Does it run? Why do you feel it needs to be rebuilt?
Love the enthusiasm, but like sofa said, the questions are much too broad, which is an indicator that you need to scale way back, start small and simple and incrementally work up to bigger and more complex projects on the car.
Let's start with this. What is wrong with the current motor? Does it run? Why do you feel it needs to be rebuilt?
09-13-2024, 08:55 PM
#13
Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
Wrong order of importance. Here's how your decision tree should REALLY look.
1. Figure out what you REALLY want.
2. Figure out how much you can REALLY spend on it. Like, are you willing to forego college or trade school or apprenticeship or whatever, in effect MORTGAGING THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, to this project? Maybe having "The Car Of Your Dreams" seems like it's worth that, NOW. In 30, 40, 50 years, ... who knows?
3. Figure out how much time you can REALLY spend on it. After you come to grips with question #2, how much of a priority in YOUR life, is this "car" thing, REALLY? Remember, it's not 1954 anymore. Money, life, choices, priorities, ... leave PERMANENT effects.
4. Decide how much of your LIFE you're willing to devote to this "project". Not saying you shouldn't build a nice car; not saying this is A Bad Idea; NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. Only, once you've HONESTLY confronted what "twin tubo with possible supercharger as well" will SUCK OUT OF the whole REST OF YOUR LIFE, is this REALLY the rabbit hole you need to be going down? Maybe you have ALOT more money than I ever did; maybe there's something in your life that totally obliviates the CONSEQUENCES of your decisions; butt I can assure you, if there's NOT, then this is a pipe dream.
5. Determine if "car" is REALLY going to be a life-changing factor for you.Will your social status somehow rise because of "car"? Will whatever unpleasant facts that you DON'T like go away, and PLEASANT ones replace them, because of "car"? I was in a bar once (yeah just once) a little while ago and a girl who was hitting on me (real pretty one I should add) tried to tell ME (a man) that "the first thing a man notices about a girl is her shoes". I lost an almost certain date that night by laughing at her: I told her that "shoes" on a woman were like "car" on a guy; yeah sure, he's gonna look at you, and if you're in public barefoot, he's gonna think you're a skank; butt beyond that, it's like OK you've got some shoes on, let's move on to more important factors. "Car" is like that. OK you've got one. NEXT.
6. Decide if this is the right "car" for your "car" dreams. Are members of the sex you desire, going to FLOCK TO this "car"?
7. Once you've cleared ALL THOSE hurdles, start on "car". Which is NOT, what engine should I build. It's more about THE CAR.
Unless you're willing to confront those kinds of issues HEAD ON, you're headed for disaster.
Forgive me for using the word REAL so much. REALITY is utterly critical. We can talk about 2 kinds of thinking; "normative", and "positive". "Positive" is thinking about things that ARE. Reality in the world as we know it. "Normative" is thinking about things the way we'd like them to be. Both are important; without the "normative" kind of ideas, we'd never make any progress, either as a person or as a species. Butt ignoring "positive" thinking while chasing "normative" leads to all manner of disastrous results. Gotta start from where we ARE before we can REALISTICALLY strive toward where we want to be. Honesty, and leaving off the rose-colored glasses, is the first step.
So I'll ask again:
What are your goals REALLY?
What is your REAL budget?
Is this your only car? If so, how convenient are the bus routes near your house? If not, is it reliable, and will you maintain your sense of urgency toward this one?
What facilities do you have access to? Garage, tools, etc.?
How much time are you able to devote to this?
You'll see that people who start out down this road often end up with their cars irreversibly damaged. AC gone, interior butchered, a "nice" car no longer "nice". Are you willing to accept that for THIS car?
What else are you ready for RIGHT NOW - not "later", not "someday", not "if I need it", not "if it breaks" - what are you willing to devote to THE REST OF the car? Drive train, suspension, brakes, etc. You may not need those things RIGHT NOW, butt I can 110% guarantee you, you WILL, and it will be REAL SOON (there's that "real" word again) and will come at a moment NOT of your choosing. Will you be prepared to deal with all that?
Give us some HONESTY and we can start talking about engines.
1. Figure out what you REALLY want.
2. Figure out how much you can REALLY spend on it. Like, are you willing to forego college or trade school or apprenticeship or whatever, in effect MORTGAGING THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, to this project? Maybe having "The Car Of Your Dreams" seems like it's worth that, NOW. In 30, 40, 50 years, ... who knows?
3. Figure out how much time you can REALLY spend on it. After you come to grips with question #2, how much of a priority in YOUR life, is this "car" thing, REALLY? Remember, it's not 1954 anymore. Money, life, choices, priorities, ... leave PERMANENT effects.
4. Decide how much of your LIFE you're willing to devote to this "project". Not saying you shouldn't build a nice car; not saying this is A Bad Idea; NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. Only, once you've HONESTLY confronted what "twin tubo with possible supercharger as well" will SUCK OUT OF the whole REST OF YOUR LIFE, is this REALLY the rabbit hole you need to be going down? Maybe you have ALOT more money than I ever did; maybe there's something in your life that totally obliviates the CONSEQUENCES of your decisions; butt I can assure you, if there's NOT, then this is a pipe dream.
5. Determine if "car" is REALLY going to be a life-changing factor for you.Will your social status somehow rise because of "car"? Will whatever unpleasant facts that you DON'T like go away, and PLEASANT ones replace them, because of "car"? I was in a bar once (yeah just once) a little while ago and a girl who was hitting on me (real pretty one I should add) tried to tell ME (a man) that "the first thing a man notices about a girl is her shoes". I lost an almost certain date that night by laughing at her: I told her that "shoes" on a woman were like "car" on a guy; yeah sure, he's gonna look at you, and if you're in public barefoot, he's gonna think you're a skank; butt beyond that, it's like OK you've got some shoes on, let's move on to more important factors. "Car" is like that. OK you've got one. NEXT.
6. Decide if this is the right "car" for your "car" dreams. Are members of the sex you desire, going to FLOCK TO this "car"?
7. Once you've cleared ALL THOSE hurdles, start on "car". Which is NOT, what engine should I build. It's more about THE CAR.
Unless you're willing to confront those kinds of issues HEAD ON, you're headed for disaster.
Forgive me for using the word REAL so much. REALITY is utterly critical. We can talk about 2 kinds of thinking; "normative", and "positive". "Positive" is thinking about things that ARE. Reality in the world as we know it. "Normative" is thinking about things the way we'd like them to be. Both are important; without the "normative" kind of ideas, we'd never make any progress, either as a person or as a species. Butt ignoring "positive" thinking while chasing "normative" leads to all manner of disastrous results. Gotta start from where we ARE before we can REALISTICALLY strive toward where we want to be. Honesty, and leaving off the rose-colored glasses, is the first step.
So I'll ask again:
What are your goals REALLY?
What is your REAL budget?
Is this your only car? If so, how convenient are the bus routes near your house? If not, is it reliable, and will you maintain your sense of urgency toward this one?
What facilities do you have access to? Garage, tools, etc.?
How much time are you able to devote to this?
You'll see that people who start out down this road often end up with their cars irreversibly damaged. AC gone, interior butchered, a "nice" car no longer "nice". Are you willing to accept that for THIS car?
What else are you ready for RIGHT NOW - not "later", not "someday", not "if I need it", not "if it breaks" - what are you willing to devote to THE REST OF the car? Drive train, suspension, brakes, etc. You may not need those things RIGHT NOW, butt I can 110% guarantee you, you WILL, and it will be REAL SOON (there's that "real" word again) and will come at a moment NOT of your choosing. Will you be prepared to deal with all that?
Give us some HONESTY and we can start talking about engines.
ill start from the top and work my way down.1) i just want to go fast, and i want it to be in this transam. Not trying to break any records, i just want a good solid amount of power. I cant give a specific number for hp or 1/4 mile time because ive never built a performance car, so i dont know what numbers correlate to the feeling i want to achieve.
2) not getting too deep into personal finances, but about 5k a year of disposable income will go to this project. It will be a multi-year project, not something i will have complete in a years time. I want to steadily improve on the build without making redundant upgrades (I.e: i dont want to upgrade the heads for a bit more hp, just to have to upgrade them again next year. i want to upgrade it once, and be done)
3) planned on working on it on the weekends
4) i appreciate this one especially. Reading all the replies, i dont think i will be supercharging any car ever lol. Didnt realize just how much money goes into supercharging. I will turbo it eventually. Then i will eventually add a 2nd turbo. The timeline for this is not set, i have 50+ years to do whatever i want with this car.
5) idk if itll have an effect on my social status, nor do i really care. Im not egotistical like that, nor am i a social person. I want to do it for myself and only for my own happiness. I simply just want to do it.
6) i dont care if people flock to the car, or if men or women dig me for it, im married and anti-social. My dream car is a car that goes fast. Just a bonus it happens to be a beautiful trans am.
My goal is to go fast
My budget is 5k a year for 50+ years(starting at 5k a year, but will increase over time)
Not my only car. I have a few trucks, work truck, tahoe, and just sold a car that i never drove.
I have access to a garage full of tools. No lift sadly, but i got a tractor i can pick it up with if needed (not being a smartass, i live in the country)
Yes i plan on upgrading drive terrain/brakes/suspension and anything else necessary.
im prepared as well as i can be ig? Im always prepared for vehicle maintenance.
I want the outside of the car to look as it does now for the most part. If i got to mount a intercooler on the front bumper then so be it. Dont care what the inside looks like. I mean its from the 80's, it doesnt look the most beautiful inside now, got some wear on it.
This reply is what i needed, and i value your input. I just want to have fun and go fast, without making dumb purchases on things i dont need for the build/waste of time.
09-13-2024, 09:09 PM
#14
Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
If you do it incrementally, sure it's possible. I think the best way to make sure you're getting bang for your buck is to avoid having to do things over again. The challenge is that when you're doing something for the first time, you'll make mistakes. My advice is to treat it like a process, have fun with the "journey" part of it, and just gradually improve. Improve the car, improve your driving, improve your instincts and knowledge.
You can do it with a small block. You'll want a forged bottom end, as much cubes as you can get on a budget, and decent heads that have room for growth (read: can be ported later). You won't want to try and maximize N/A performance at the expense of working in the future for boost. So probably lower compression and a smaller, lower-overlap cam, and bigger heads. Heads are going to be the most important part for making power. The forged bottom end is just table stakes if you want to eventually hit 600+ HP with boost.
To get you started on the budget part, here's what you're looking at for just a quality crank and rods.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-435337505700
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-crs6000bst
As you can tell, it's going to get expensive in a hurry. So be prepared for that.
I'd also suggest going aftermarket engine management, just for the sake of finding a tuner who can help you if nothing else. You'll want to decide if you want an auto or manual long-term before you buy that, since it''ll likely dictate which you need. Manuals are fun, but an auto is going to be faster and more consistent.
Supercharger kit will run you about $7K by itself. You'll want to be sure that 1) the engine and driveline can handle it, and 2) you have the engine management (read: fuel and ignition control) to support it.
When you start getting into BIG HP numbers and boost, it all becomes about how much fuel can be delivered. Probably dual pumps, maybe larger lines.
If you have it available locally, I'd plan for E85. It'll be either that or $10-12 per gallon race fuel, if you can find it. E85 means replacing a few fuel lines with PTFE. Maybe your hard lines, depending who you ask.
So...
1) Build a solid bottom end
2) Get a solid drive train
3) Build the engine with headroom to grow
4) Get good engine management
5) Figure out how you're going to deliver the fuel
6) Figure out how you're going to get traction
Hope this gets you started.
You can do it with a small block. You'll want a forged bottom end, as much cubes as you can get on a budget, and decent heads that have room for growth (read: can be ported later). You won't want to try and maximize N/A performance at the expense of working in the future for boost. So probably lower compression and a smaller, lower-overlap cam, and bigger heads. Heads are going to be the most important part for making power. The forged bottom end is just table stakes if you want to eventually hit 600+ HP with boost.
To get you started on the budget part, here's what you're looking at for just a quality crank and rods.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-435337505700
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-crs6000bst
As you can tell, it's going to get expensive in a hurry. So be prepared for that.
I'd also suggest going aftermarket engine management, just for the sake of finding a tuner who can help you if nothing else. You'll want to decide if you want an auto or manual long-term before you buy that, since it''ll likely dictate which you need. Manuals are fun, but an auto is going to be faster and more consistent.
Supercharger kit will run you about $7K by itself. You'll want to be sure that 1) the engine and driveline can handle it, and 2) you have the engine management (read: fuel and ignition control) to support it.
When you start getting into BIG HP numbers and boost, it all becomes about how much fuel can be delivered. Probably dual pumps, maybe larger lines.
If you have it available locally, I'd plan for E85. It'll be either that or $10-12 per gallon race fuel, if you can find it. E85 means replacing a few fuel lines with PTFE. Maybe your hard lines, depending who you ask.
So...
1) Build a solid bottom end
2) Get a solid drive train
3) Build the engine with headroom to grow
4) Get good engine management
5) Figure out how you're going to deliver the fuel
6) Figure out how you're going to get traction
Hope this gets you started.
"So probably lower compression and a smaller, lower-overlap cam, and bigger heads."
Few questions, particularly about this quote. Why lower compression? What is a lower-overlap cam, and how does it function differently than a normal cam?
And i live in the country, i can get any kind of gas lol. i can get some jet fuel from the local airportXD
09-13-2024, 09:13 PM
#15
Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
That's too open-ended to answer.
How long is a stick?
Something like that.
doesn't belong in the same book, let alone Internet post, with
That's COMPLETELY in fantasy land. Hell, my wife is on Fast Track all the time, and her max bid for stuff most times is $0.17; I doubt SHE could even come up with JUST THE PARTS for $10k, even at that little per piece. You're asking how somebody making McDonalds money can move into Brentwood or Calabasas or Malibu. Fantasy land.
To start out with, you're about at the point of a baby taking its first steps, to planning for the 100m dash at the next Olympics. One Internet post isn't going to get you from leisurely one-afternoon driveway level repairs like changing an alternator to that sort of thing. Time to get realistic.
Tell us a bit more about what's going on here. What are your goals? (HP, ET, lap times, "fun driving in the country with my SO on a pretty Sunday afternoon", etc.) What's your budget? (REALLY; not pie in the sky) What's the time frame? What tools do you have? How much time do you have to work on it? (pressures from job, school, family, ???) How good are you at tuning? Wiring? Plumbing? Math? Any moron (hell, even I) can drop a motor that makes however much horsepower into a car; what about making it hook up? Last? Stop? Turn? How nice is the car now? How bad are you willing to tear it up and risk it turning into a yard ornament? Do you want the AC to work? Retain the rear seat? Glass windows (HEAVY) or acrylic (no way to drive it on the street for a whole day)? How much of the interior are you willing to gut? You DO realize that the engine you have now (SBC dating back to 1955) will be TOTALLY outclassed in every manner way shape form and fashion by newer engines such as the LS series? And so forth.
I'd suggest that rather than reading books about engine building, that you just kinda surf sites like this one, LS1Tech, YellowBullet, ChevyTalk, and so on, and kinda get a feel for what others have experienced.
How long is a stick?
Something like that.
doesn't belong in the same book, let alone Internet post, with
That's COMPLETELY in fantasy land. Hell, my wife is on Fast Track all the time, and her max bid for stuff most times is $0.17; I doubt SHE could even come up with JUST THE PARTS for $10k, even at that little per piece. You're asking how somebody making McDonalds money can move into Brentwood or Calabasas or Malibu. Fantasy land.
To start out with, you're about at the point of a baby taking its first steps, to planning for the 100m dash at the next Olympics. One Internet post isn't going to get you from leisurely one-afternoon driveway level repairs like changing an alternator to that sort of thing. Time to get realistic.
Tell us a bit more about what's going on here. What are your goals? (HP, ET, lap times, "fun driving in the country with my SO on a pretty Sunday afternoon", etc.) What's your budget? (REALLY; not pie in the sky) What's the time frame? What tools do you have? How much time do you have to work on it? (pressures from job, school, family, ???) How good are you at tuning? Wiring? Plumbing? Math? Any moron (hell, even I) can drop a motor that makes however much horsepower into a car; what about making it hook up? Last? Stop? Turn? How nice is the car now? How bad are you willing to tear it up and risk it turning into a yard ornament? Do you want the AC to work? Retain the rear seat? Glass windows (HEAVY) or acrylic (no way to drive it on the street for a whole day)? How much of the interior are you willing to gut? You DO realize that the engine you have now (SBC dating back to 1955) will be TOTALLY outclassed in every manner way shape form and fashion by newer engines such as the LS series? And so forth.
I'd suggest that rather than reading books about engine building, that you just kinda surf sites like this one, LS1Tech, YellowBullet, ChevyTalk, and so on, and kinda get a feel for what others have experienced.
09-13-2024, 10:26 PM
#16
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Car: '89 Formula
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Re: First time building an engine 350 5.7L V8
4) i appreciate this one especially. Reading all the replies, i dont think i will be supercharging any car ever lol. Didnt realize just how much money goes into supercharging. I will turbo it eventually. Then i will eventually add a 2nd turbo. The timeline for this is not set, i have 50+ years to do whatever i want with this car.
Few questions, particularly about this quote. Why lower compression? What is a lower-overlap cam, and how does it function differently than a normal cam?
And i live in the country, i can get any kind of gas lol. i can get some jet fuel from the local airportXD
And i live in the country, i can get any kind of gas lol. i can get some jet fuel from the local airportXD
All cams have some kind of overlap, which is just the window during which, as the cam spins, the intake and exhaust valves are open simultaneously. If you want to make big power naturally aspirated, you generally want a more aggressive, higher-overlap cam because it makes the engine more efficient at higher RPMs. Like the compression, that can be a negative when you go to boost it. So a smaller, less aggressive cam will make less power initially, but again you won't be redoing it again later.
I'd strongly consider E85 if you have access. It's 100+ octane and gives you a big safety cushion in the tune and design.
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