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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
My fuel sender is shot and i'm having a difficult time finding a good replacement for my 1989 Firebird Formula 5.0L, TPI (VIN Code: F). Summit has these two options but i'm not thrilled about using either one. I only want to have to do this job once. Has anyone used these either of these or have a better recommendation?
Delphi hasn't made a fuel pump module assembly for our TPI cars for years. Just the 2.8L/3.1L V6 like the one you posted a link to and one for the 5.0L TBI V8 engines.
I trust Dorman products about as far as I can pickup my Firebird over my head and throw it.
For all I know the Dorman and Spectra fuel hanger/sending unit are the same communist Chinese made junk. They are both made in China. I've had good luck with the Spectra.
I'd trust that the piece of rubber fuel hose that comes with any of these communist China made units actually being true quality submersion rated fuel injection hose about as much as I'd believe Joe Biden knows what his name is and where he is at right now.
My fuel pump is also dead and the fuel gauge always reads past full. The sender is always reading 125ohms on my meter even after I siphoned the tank out. Is it possible a dead fuel pump would cause the sender to read improperly?
The Spectra one looks good, I didn't think to check Amazon so thanks for posting! The range is slightly different compared to factory spec, 0-95ohms on the Spectra vs 0-90ohms per my manual. Will that make a difference?
I'm also taking fuel pump recs, I'm looking for something as close to stock as possible and so that I only have to do this job once. A good sales rep at summit swore on this one but I'm worried it's too powerful compared to stock (shows 90psi, stock is 40-45psi). Will this blow my fuel pressure regulator?
I'm also taking fuel pump recs, I'm looking for something as close to stock as possible and so that I only have to do this job once. A good sales rep at summit swore on this one but I'm worried it's too powerful compared to stock (shows 90psi, stock is 40-45psi). Will this blow my fuel pressure regulator?
That's the standard 255L pump replacement. That may be a rebranded Walbro. Anyways, yes it will work and will not cause any problems as any excess fuel will simple go right back to the tank via the return line.
Awesome, ty guys for the input! I was worried the stock fuel pressure regulator wouldn't be able to handle a 255L pump.
When you install the pump, how do you ensure you're splicing the plug circled in the pic for the pump properly? I'm uneasy about doing this in a fuel tank with everything submersed. Obviously you can't use electrical tape because the fuel will eat away at it. What materials am I going to need?
The connectors are such that its dummy proofed or have poka yokes to ensure it cannot be installed incorrectly. Take your time and make sure all connections are tight prior to installing. and after you get the tank up and lines installed but before installing everything else, check by turning the key on. I had a moment of panic as I thought the sender was hooked not allowing it to move but I just needed more fuel in it.
I'm running a aeromotive stealth 340. It feeds a sniper 8x100lb/hr with no prob. As for sending unit, it's either a dorman or spectra, fuel gauge reads reasonable. What I believe is a full tank reads 7/8 and when it gets into the orange it'll take about 13 gallons.
My Spectra sending unit came from Amazon and my fuel pump from Summit both came today so I assembled it and it looks great. The pump came in a TI Automotive box which I interpret to basically mean it's a Walbro. I tested the range on the sender and it's 1.4 ohms at empty and 91.4 at full so I'm pretty happy as I've heard some people get inaccurate units out of the box. Now I just need to find a Saturday where I can get out there. The plan is to do what I can in bits and pieces beforehand (remove heat shields etc.) and then devote a full day to actually drop the tank.
Thanks again to everyone for the help and particularly to @Airwolfe for the sender rec!
1) Get as much fuel out as possible
2) Jack it up at least 15-20”
3) Remove exhaust
4) Remove heat shields
5) Remove Pan hard bar
6) Detach the sway bar
7) Detach as many of the brake line attachments as you can
8) Jack under rear end
9) unhook shocks
10) Swing the rear end down
11) Make note of fuel
lines, return, evap and vent. Disconnect
12) unhook electrical connector
13) Tank has to twist and come out the passenger side. The filler neck is the trouble spot and be careful not to bend it or one can cause a leak.
I got to be honest it’s a bitch but after doing it a few times, you figure out the trouble spots. Many don’t unhook the sway bar and get the rear end down. Apologies, I probably missed something but this is the key items.
Yes, first time, thank you for sending that list. I've watched hours of YouTube videos and made a list like yours with all the bolt sizes so I feel like I have a good idea of what to expect. I siphoned the tank dry too.
One problem I'm not looking forward to is that my exhaust is welded from the tips all the way up to where they connect to the headers so I bought a chain cutting tool and 3in exhaust clamp from Summit (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ttn-51725). What's odd is back in 2007 a shop replaced the fuel pump for me. Do you think they cut and then rewelded the exhaust for me or were they somehow able to sneak it out without cutting it? The shop closed otherwise I would have called and asked. I don't see any clamps so I'm assuming if they cut it they rewelded it...?
What's odd is back in 2007 a shop replaced the fuel pump for me. Do you think they cut and then rewelded the exhaust for me or were they somehow able to sneak it out without cutting it? The shop closed otherwise I would have called and asked. I don't see any clamps so I'm assuming if they cut it they rewelded it...?
Should probably take a minute to lift your cargo area carpet... they might have cut something, but not your exhaust.
During 2023 Hot Rod Power Tour, I lost a pump and the shop didn’t drop the rear end enough so they could get the exhaust out after the car so they cut it and re-welded.
I did the same cutting the pipe and adding a band clamp. It works fine.
I just got the Spectra unit back in, been working on this for 7 hours now. It looks like the metal fuel lines coming off the spectra unit are shorter than what I had in there originally. The rubber hoses aren't reaching the metal fuel lines coming off the chassis.
Does anyone know what sizes the rubber fuel hoses that connect the pump assemble to the metal fuel lines on the chassis are?
For some reason I'm drawing a murky blank on this so do your own double checking or wait for someone else to chime in that knows for sure. It's been a month since we did the tank, same hanger/sender, fuel pump, filter, fuel sock, fuel pressure regulator, fuel rail rebuild, and fuel injectors on the 1989 GTA. Tuesday helping another friend do all the same stuff on his 1986 Grand National and more with a box full of Casper's Electronics and Racetronix parts. We just a few days ago went and got fuel hoses. I got his car on my mind and the fuel hose sizes for a 3rd gen have been pushed back deep in my brain so I can focus on the GN. It's weird too because it uses 3/8 supply, 1/4 return, and 5/16 evap with no vent.
The fuel supply and return hose should be SAE J30R9 rated high pressure fuel injection hose. I believe the size is 3/8 supply and 5/16 return.
The evap and vent hose should be SAE J30R7 fuel and emissions hose. It can be the better SAE J30R9 hose if easier to find. I think it is also 3/8 and 5/16.
Thanks Airwolfe, my 89 Formula had 3/8, 5/16, and also 1/4in rubber line. I finished getting the car back together last night around 1130pm. I started at 9am so around 14.5 hours, including a trip to the parts store. It started to rain around 10pm so I was rushing and still have to put some things like the heat shields back on.
For anyone thinking about doing this project themselves, here are some tips I would suggest and where I lost a lot of time. The project shouldn't have taken as long as it did...
The good:
- I watched several Youtube videos of how to do this and had written down the disassembly order with all bolt sizes.
- I had baggies with a post it note in each one designated for each part (upper panhard nuts, sway bar end links, etc)
- I could not have done this job without air tools, I wouldn't try doing it without them.
The bad:
- The metal lines coming off the Spectra fuel sending unit were shorter than the ones on my original sender. This meant I couldn't reuse the rubber fuel hoses because they wouldn't reach. Make sure you have all your rubber hoses ahead of time (my lines were 3/8, 1/4, and 5/16)
- I only had one floor jack and thought I could get by with a scissor jack from my other car. This was a mistake and made getting things like my exhaust bolted back up much more difficult. (I had no clue it was so heavy). I lost a lot of time winding the scissor jack up and down. Have 2 floor jacks.
- I lost 45 minutes trying to get the tank out because I couldn't drop the rear axle low enough because of the brake line. I didn't want to deal with bleeding them after so I tried to avoid removing it and fought with the tank before finally giving in. That gave me the few extra inches I needed and the tank slid right out afterwards. Don't waste your time/patience, just remove the brake line.
- When I got the tank down I wanted to clean it and spent 45min trying to siphon the residual gas out (only a gallon or so) with a hand pump siphon. This didn't work and I couldn't figure out how to actually dump the gas out. I ended up not being able to use the tank cleaner I bought. I just tried to scoop out whatever debris I could by hand but thankfully the tank was surprisingly clean. I would recommend an electric pump.
- Cutting the exhaust with the chain cutter tool took around an hour. My exhaust is 3in diameter and stainless steel. At one point I didn't think I could get it off because the pipe was too thick and the cutting wheels were bottoming out. Thankfully it eventually cut through. Use a cutting wheel if possible
- Leave yourself an entire weekend for this project
And finally, here are some rough notes with sizes I have in case anyone finds useful. This is for an 89 Formula 5.0 TPI. Thanks again to everyone on this site. Hopefully this post will help someone out there.
Not that it matters now but on the brake line, did you disconnect it at the body and the rear end? That is the only way I was able to get enough range to get the rear end swung away/down.
Well I have pulled the tank twice and did not have to disconnect the brake lines. I did unhook the attachment on the body and at the “T” at the rear end. And yes it allowed enough to rotate the rear end out of the way. Now my car was stock so if the brakes lines had been replaced then all bets are off.
For the brake line, I believe so, I had to disconnect only the line on the rear driver side that goes into the T-fitting on the rear axle. It was very close which was why I didn't want to remove it but ultimately ended up having to.
I will try to get out there again soon to confirm but from memory:
1. Supply - i didn't change because it has some sort of metal fitting that seems unremovable
2. Return - Need to confirm...5/16?
3. Return - Need to confirm...1/4?
4. Tank valve vent was largest, 3/8
It's confusing because on my car the lines crossed over one another. But at the same time, the metal lines they plug into are also different sizes so you can't mix them up. you can kind of tell from this pic before i removed anything.
Well I have pulled the tank twice and did not have to disconnect the brake lines. I did unhook the attachment on the body and at the “T” at the rear end. And yes it allowed enough to rotate the rear end out of the way. Now my car was stock so if the brakes lines had been replaced then all bets are off.
I probably overlooked this in a rush, that seems like an easier way so you're not dealing with brake fluid, assuming the T just disconnects but the lines stay hooked up. i'll remember for next time
06-20-2024, 04:37 PM
