Mark A Shields

I want the most power my stock heads can handle, and a lumpy sound would be great. I was looking at the Summit 224/234 w/ a .465/.488 lift. Or should I get the 224/224 w/ a .465/.465 lift. In Summit it says to get 221-230* for power from 2000-5500. Now I have a Summit Polished Aluminum intake I will be adding as well power from idle-5500 rpms. Would this be the best cam for me, and price is somewhat of a concern.

84zeddd

Is that a roller block?

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

From what I've been learning, .488 lift is going to be too much for the stock press-in rocker studs to handle.

jcb999

Go with something about 220 degrees duration and a lsa of 110. Like the comp XE268 or something around there.

No4NJunk

With the intake and TC you have your going to want something with an rpm range of 1500 to 5000. You have to match your components! Getting a bigger cam than your intake and heads can handle will just be wasting time and gas.

Mark A Shields

Sorry I don't know a lot about cams, which cam would specifically keep me in the 1500-5k range. No4NJunk, which cam do you have, for some reason I can't match the info you give in your sign. to a specific one in Summit. The adv duration throws me off.

giovanhalen

go with the 224 degree @ .050 lift .465" lift 114 lobe seperation part #sum-k1104. of the two you mention it is the one that ought to be your best choice.

jcb999

Do you realize these designs date back to the mid 80s?

No4NJunk

Yes I do but this cam has worked wonders for me. 1.6 rockers on the exhuast valves would give me the same specs as some of the better cams. I know It would be more expensive this way but I got this cam and lifters for $60. I got a discount because I work for a shop.

Yeah those are the specs but I got the Crane Wolverine cam kit. I am not sure about the lobe sep. though....I'll have to look. The spec sheet on this cam gave an min rpm of 2200 and max of 6000. This MIGHT be too much for you intake and TC. If you get a better intake and TC, which you should do, then you will get some nice times. If not I would go with something smaller. In your case the Comp Xtreme 254 (210*/218* with 447/462 lift) or Comp Xtreme 250 (206*/214* with 432/453 lift). Part numbers 254 are 249-CL12-235-2 and 250 are 249-CL12-231-2. These where from jegs. If you want the Crane Wolverine kit Its $110 or $120 from advanced auto I think.
Good luck,
Brian

Mark A Shields

For one they're cheaper, my brother says they are good, but I was looking for other opinions, thanks for the info.

I figured I would be fine w/ a cam that makes power 2k-5500 since I'm not doing under 2k for long with the gears and the trannies 1st gear.

No4NJunk

What intake are you using? What is the rpm range?

Mark A Shields

Sorry for all the questions, I'm still learning. That cam you recommend, 210/214, isn't that rather on the small side. According to Summit's chart that cam only makes power from 1500-4500 rpms. Or is there more to than duration. Because it says for power between 2,000-5000 get 221-230*. Also it says that Comp Exts are designed for 4x4s, wouldn't that be a bad choice?

Mark A Shields

It's the Summit Polished Aluminum idle-5500.

Mark A Shields

Now this is confusing. I'm looking at the Crane Power Max cams. They list the 222/222 as power from 2220-5200 rpms. But summit lists as power from 2k-5500. Also the Crane Cam 216/228 is from 2k-5k rpms.
The Comp Cams High Energy has the 280H ( 280* ADV duration 230/230 duration at .050) with a 480/480 lift. What affect does the intake/exh lift have to do with cams. It says this is a hi-perf cam should be used w/headers,manifold, and 4 BBL
Sorry again, for all the questions, but I want to look at every angle, unlike I did when I picked 3:73s.
Oh, and one more thing I should mention. Next Summer I plan on a new TC or maybe porting my heads. So I would like to go ahead and get the cam with that in mind.

87transam5.7tpi

ok here is the deal with camshafts. they will work throughout your WHOLE powerband. its just that they peak in those specific areas. I have a carbed 305 with a 204intake 214exhaust. that cam is rated to like 4500-5000? I've had that thing up to 6500rpm it is still running fine. you just need to pick what you normal use. do you race alot? then go with like a 230 cam. if you do racing when the chance comes up(once a week or so) I'd get about 220ish. this is just my opinion on what cam to get, but I for sure would get both intake and exhaust AT LEAST 2teens for the duration. if its mainly a daily driver I'd get about 220 for both. like I said just my opinion and from my experience. but I hope this helped some

Mark A Shields

I'm using Dyno 2000 right now and I'm not sure of the size of my intake/exhaust valves in the heads. I lost my sheet from the company that had all the specs of my motor. Anyone happen to know?

Thanks for the info everyone.

OK, I just did a couple of Cams, using 1.8/1.6 valves for the heads.

Sum-105 TQ- 333 @4k 224/234*
HP- 289 @5k
Sum-104 TQ- 334 @4k 224/224*
HP- 281 @5k
Sum-106 TQ- 321 @4k
HP- 285 @5k 234/234*

Comp 268H TQ- 355 @ 3500 218/218*
HP- 282 @ 5k

Now the Sum 105 gives me 7 more HP @5k, but the Comp 268H gives me more low end TQ. Which would be better low end TQ (22 more) @ less rpms and giving up a few HP or go for the high end HP?

No4NJunk

mark,
I didn't realize that your intake had such a broad range. Anyway I would get the same cam I have. Look above for specs or my sig. Its just that after 5500 your not going to be making power. My Intake has a 1500 to 6500 rpm and I have taken the engine well into 6200 rpm and I can still feel the car pulling strong. This will not happen in your case. As for the program you are using it ins't going to be accurate unless EVERYTHING is exactly right.

No4NJunk

Cams have a round about figure when it comes to rpm ranges. Different people have different ideas about what rpm range you should run them in.


The lift and duration have to do with how long each valve is held open. The higher the lift and longer the duration the higher the rpm range and the less streetabilitly you are going to get. By going higher into the power band you sacrifice torque for Horsepower. This is because torque as we all know is made at very low rpms. This is why a lot of f-bodies have problems with take off. These cars run just off idle and that is where a tremendous amout of torque is being produced. Anyway the cam I have Matched the Torque numbers with the HP numbers with the mods giving a little to both ends. this is about what you can expect if you pick the right cam.

Probably will be the best thing you do!! You won't believe how much the higher stall speed will help.

Mark A Shields

Wow, you run it that high, I thought the sheet said the redline was 5200 rpms. I guess I should just get a cam with the same specs as you, as I would be very happy for my car to be running your times. Oh, check out what the Dyno did, I just edited the above post a listed some figures.

No4NJunk

well you are sort of right. The sheet said the max. rpm is 5200 meaning this is peak for HP. But I have found that for some reason the car pulls extremely hard up to 6200. Beyond that I'm just floating the valves. Anyway..you have nearly the same mods so If you got the same cam AND intake you would be right there with me. Especially if you got the TC. I like the Dyno results. But remember these are only estimates. Let me know when you decide which cam you want.

Mark A Shields

Are you sure? I thought the sheet said peak HP was at 4200 rpms and peak tq @3500 rpms. Of course if you've shifted higher I guess the sheet don't mean crap.

jcb999

they are just rules of thumb.

The summit cams&lifters cost 100 dollars less than a comp XE cam-lifter set. The reason why should be clear.. no r&d.

Mark A Shields

Do I need new lifters, since these only have about 10k miles on them. And aren't all cams the same, I mean they all go by the duration right, or is there more to it than that. I think I'm going to go ahead with the Summit 105, so far on Dyno 2000 it gave me the best results. But it will be another couple of weeks before I order, so who knows.

87transam5.7tpi

yes you should get new lifters everytime you change a cam. the is VERY slight differences that will wear into the lifters and cam. I think that the summit cams comes with the lifters doesn't it? the only time you don't have to change lifters is if you have a roller cam. make sure you lube up your cam well too when you put it in.

Mark A Shields

Yeah, Summit cams do have lifters. And, I probably won't be doing the install, but I do remember having to lube the cam last time I helped with an install.

MotorCityMuscle

Stay away from Summit cams and Edelbrock cams. They are old technology. try something like the CompCams XE-262 or even the 268. The 262 will make more peak torque in you 350 than the 268 will. Cam grinds like this will be light years ahead of the summit cams in terms of driveability. My 355 came with the 224/224 .465/.465 summit cam when I got it. I yanked the motor to change the pan gasket and swapped cams at the same time. i used the XE-262 in its place. The difference was night and day, especially throught the low and midrange. You don't need a cam that pulls to 6500 rpm, as your heads aren't flowing much that high anyway. The idle quality was better too, even thought h two cams had roughly the same lift.

MotorCityMuscle

Also, for any cam over about 212 degrees on the intake, you'll need at least a 2000 stall converter.

Mark A Shields

Even with my gears I would need a new TC w/a 2k stall? It's not like I stay under 2k for long anyways.
I'm leaning towards the Comp 270H, it says it's the largest cam to use with a stock TC. Plus by next summer I plan on a new TC anyways.
But on the 268H, I put it into Dyno 2000 and came up w/ 7 less HP than the Sum cam, but 22 more ft/torque at 3500 rpms compared to peak torque on the summit cam @4k. Which would be a better trade off, more torque or more HP at the higher rpms?

Mark A Shields

I just found the website that gives info on my motor.

249 HP @5,000 rpms
304 TQ @3500 rpms
cam: 195/202

Now by adding the Edelbrock Performer and cam w/ 204/214

these are the figures, that the website listed
285 HP @ 4600 rpms
355 TQ @ 3600 rpms

Now that's with open headers keep in mind, but wow, that's a good power increase by stepping up only 1 cam size roughly right?

85transamtpi

Have you called comp cams and gotten their recomendation? If not their number is 1-800-999-0853. They will give you the specs on their cam that they recomend for your setup. If you want to save some $$, you can match the numbers of thier grind to a summit cam. They have been very helpful to me in the past.

-peace

Mark A Shields

Thanks a lot. I think I might spend the couple extra dollars and forget the Summit cam. I want to go fast and if the Summit cam will hinder that then I don't want it. Of course I'm in college so money is tight. But if I got the Comp cam, would Summit lifters be ok?

jcb999

I just found a dyno test of the summit 214-224. It made 299hp and 367ft/lbs torque. They swapped a XE268 and it made 319hp and 380ft/lbs torque.

They also referred to another test that used the other summit grinds 224-224 and 224-234. They said they only made about 3 and 6hp more than the 214-224.

The thing that is nice about the XEs over the magnum -270 and HE 268 is the additional exhaust duration and lift. It will help high rpm hp.

Mark A Shields

Thanks, I'll be sure to look into that.
The XE cam, will that create a rough idle like the 270H?

I've narrowed it down to the XE268 and the 270H. Thanks everyone for all the help.

The XE268 says power from 1600-5800, while the 270H says power from 1800-5800 but says has a rough idle, which I would like.

jcb999

but.. you can just drop the idle a little more and it will make a little noise

giovanhalen

I had a 355 with 76cc 1.94 intakes flat top pistons edelbrock torquerII manifold 650 holley double pumper headers and a lunati 292 bracket master cam 230 degrees at .050 lift and .480 valve lift. It idled well at 900 rpm and pulled best to 5000 rpm. Sure it would rev higher but revving it higher before shifting would accomplish nothing. And yes you can use the summit lifters with another brand of cam as long as they are both new.

Mark A Shields

I knew the lifters would work, I was just asking because at first I was trying to save money and get a Summit cam, turns out they are out of date, I wasn't sure about the lifters.

giovanhalen

I still think the summit cam would be fine. Crane has a solid lifter cam that is a good bargain it is $99.99 in Jegs catalog part #270-113841 advertised 278/288 degrees .480/.500 lift I would use it. Why buy a hydraulic cam anyway? At first you said you wanted to save money now you want to go fast. Go with the solid lifter set up. Hydraulic lifters can fail and every dyno test I ever saw the solid cam was better, broader torque band. The engine I am building now is a 468 and it is getting a solid cam. I had one before in a 70 chevelle and it was trouble free. The damn hydraulic in the 355 would sometimes click on one valve at idle.

Mark A Shields

So you can't collapse a solid lifter then huh? That's what happened in my 305 with hydraulic ones. \
Yeah, I was kind of in the air about saving money and going faster. But I figure why try to save an extra $50 and hurt my performance, when this is a good time to take advantage of my gears.
I think that cam would be too much says power starts @ 3k.

giovanhalen

That rpm power range depends on displacement. This cam could be used in anything from a 283 to a 400 small block. It only has .458/.478" lift when you subtract the valve lash of .022". Also the duration is less than advertised with a solid ,due to valve adjustment. In a 283 it might be a little radical. It says it has a fair idle and moderate performance, it is not a radical camshaft for a 350.

85transamtpi

Mark,
A solid lifter cam will (in general) produce more power than a hydrolic cam. However keep in mind that you will need to set your valve lash often. If you dont mind pulling your valve covers every few thousand miles to set the lash, then it may be worth the extra few hp you will gain. Personaly I would just stick to hydraulic lifters...but you may want to think about stepping to a hydraulic roller cam/lifters. From what I have read earlier in the post you have desktop dyno. Do a few "pulls" with a roller cam. Its worth thinking about.

Mark A Shields

Forget that then, I don't want the trouble of pulling the valve covers often. Roller cams costs like 2x as much though don't they. Like I said I'm going to go with the 270H or XE268.

giovanhalen

If you think you have to adjust solid lifters often then you obviously have never had any. The only way they will need adjusted is if something wears or the adjusters come loose. Obviously a solid roller cam is the best but cost is a factor. I'll stick with a solid cam and roller rockers for now. The valve clearance can also be affected by the valves recessing into the heads. How quick do you think that happens? About as quick as the cam wears which would equal out and no adjustment needed. All I do is check them once a year or if they were to start sounding different.