Hey All, I am stumped.. I just finished installing a whole new top end on my 89 350 and It will not start.. I have a couple of questions. On the mini-ram, do you install the fuel feed line at the FPR or on the opposite rail and have the return line going out of the FPR? The instructions were not clear on that. Also, When I am cranking it over, it sounds like there is no compression in the engine. When I was lashing the rocker arms and turning over the engine manually, I can hear and feel compression, but when I am trying to crank it dosent even choke or backfire nothing.. I am getting spark from my MSD box, it makes a very high pitched ticking noise when trying to crank over.. Distributor is in a #1TDC on compression stroke all lined up.

Another dumb question, do you remove the inside of the schrader valve when hooking up a fuel pressure tester to the fuel rail??

I have had numerious friends come over to try and help and they are stumped as well.. Please help.. Any assistance is appreciated..

Thanks in advance,
Loren

 

Return would be out of the regulator. Depends on the tester if it’s a gauge meant to be mounted on the schrader the schrader has to be removed. Most tester depress the schrader.

 

OK, Cool.. I will switch the fuel lines around to see if that fixes the issue..

 

The fuel pump delivers all the volume it possibly can, all the time.

No fuel pressure at all is generated unless the flow out of the pump is restricted somehow. If it's completely restricted, the pressure can go quite high. If the restriction is moderate, allowing some flow but not full flow, the pressure will be somewhere in between.

The fuel from the pump goes into one fuel rail and around through the little crossover thing to the other, and the regulator goes there. It lets enough fuel return to the tank to keep the pressure at whatever it's set to. The sum of the engine's consumption, plus the amount that the regulator allows to return, determines the pressure.

Pressure line to one rail, crossover to the other rail, regulator at the other end of the the 2nd rail, return line hooks up to regulator.

 

Awesome.. Thanks for the info. and the schooling!! I have learned alot here from everyone on these boards!!! I will be working on the car tomorrow night and update the status.. ThanksAgain!!!

 

OK.. I switched the fuel lines to return going after FPR and feed going to p/s fuel rail. I tuned the FPR to 47 psi. Now when I crank, I get VERY loud "POPS" coming from the exhaust. but it will not start... Any ideas?!?!?!?!

 

I'll state the same thing I said in the accidental thread. Sounds like your distributor isn't lined up correctly. Could be 180 degrees out or quite a bit outside of #1

 

What aliceempire said.

Keep in mind, if you installed the cam with the dots on the sprockets "dot to dot" like most of us do, that's #6 firing, not #1. One exact full turn of the crank from there will put the engine back to #1 TDC, and this time at #1 firing, with both dots at 12:00.

 

UPDATE: So i loosened the cylinder #1 and #2 rocker arms and put a compression tester tool on #1 cylinder and rolled the engine over about 5 times and got zero compression.. I moved to #2 cylinder and got about 140 psi. Whats the problem?? Is it a timing issue?? Was the cam or the timing chains installed wrong?? Is their any easier way to diagnose the issue without having to pull the water pump to access the cam and timing?? Any information would be helpful before I start tearing down my freshly rebuilt engine??!?!? Thanks in advance!!!

 

I'm confused. Why did you loosen rocker arms to test compression? You need the valvetrain properly set up to learn anything valuable from a cranking compression test. Valves shut and a leak down test is different though, but even then you don't need to have the rocker arms backed off.
Zero compression is suggesting a stuck valve or you have something way out of whack but at this point I couldn't speculate.

 

Hello, The reason why I loosened up the rockers arms is because I wanted to check the compression of the cylinder without involvement from the camshaft. I wanted to make sure the valves were closed to check to see how much pressure I was getting in each cylinder.. I was fresh out of ideas on why the engine wasent starting after a new cam, heads, and miniram install.. So why is there no compression at all in the #1 cylinder but getting compression in the #2 cylinder when I did the same test... When I installed the cam and new timing chain and gears, I had both of the dots lines up on the crank gear and the cam.. crank gear was at 12 o'clock and cam gear was lined up at 6 o'clock..

 

Pull all the plugs, adjust the rockers and recheck compression.Then squirt some oil in each spark plug hole and recheck compression. You most likely washed out the rings when you had the heads off the oil should bring back compression.

 

So you were at top dead #6 cylinder? Meaning you were 180* out if you pointed the distributor rotor anywhere near #1. Your lack of compression could be any number of variables, problems or missteps.

 

When I installed the new cam and timing set, my #1 cylinder was at TDC, with the crank pointer at 12 o'clock and the cam pointer at 6 o'clock. So they were pointing at eachother..

 

As said, with the dots at "dot to dot" like you had them, the engine was at #6 firing, not #1.

#6 & #1 come to TDC at the same time. When one of them is firing, the other is at the end of the exh stroke and beginning of the int.

Put the rockers back on right. Efff a compression check. Leave the spark plugs out. Rotate the engine until you feel compression coming out of #1. Continue rotating until the timing mark is just coming onto the tab. Stab the dist with the rotor pointed at #1, which is the one just to the driver's side of straight ahead. Put the plugs in, plug wires on, and start it up.

 

Roger that.. I will attempt to do your remedy.. question tho.. Why would I still have zero compression in the #1 cylinder no matter how many times I roll it over??? washed out rings?!?!? should i still put a squirt of oil in all the spark plug holes?!??!

 

Question tho... you EFFFED IT UP, why does it matter?

Main reason why is, if the rockers were taken off, the valves weren't opening; meaning there was nothing taken in through the intake valve to be compressed.

But it doesn't matter. Put it back together right and move on. Write it off as "if it ain't broke, fix it until it is."

 

What happened? Did you get it fired up?

 

no.. I have not gotten it to crank yet. Going to do a compression test.

 

Some people just don't listen.

Kinda like, why bother posting a question on the internet, if somebody comes back with THE CORRECT answer, and you just choose to ignore it.

Good luck with your compression test. Hope it turns out well.

Then once you realize that it has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING WHATSOEVER AT ALL to do with The Problem At Hand, and put the engine back together again with the distributor in the correct relationship to the valve events, you'll do what you were told about instead (or in addition to ...) wasting your time on a bunch of ... that.

Good luck. You're gonna need it, it would seem. Sometimes, for some people, luck must be relied on to substitute for logic, reason, thinking, knowledge, humility, and whatever else. Never has worked for me in my half century or so in this hobby, but who knows, things might change for you. Maybe your "luck" is better than mine.

 

Incidentally, language and choice of words, is IMPORTANT. We're not mind readers out here; we rely on THE WORDS you use to describe what you're experiencing. Help us to help you.

Crank = the engine spins when you turn the key (doesn't sound like "crank" is your problem, meaning, your entire post is misdirected)

Engine fails to run when starter spins it = doesn't START (NOT "crank")

Sounds like you have the 2 potential problems here, mis-labelled.

 

Thanks for your assistance.. The starter turns the engine over but it does not start. Do not hear any compression when the starter is turning the engine over. I have the rocker arms lashed correctly, the distributor in the correct position in reference to #1 cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke. I have 47psi at the fuel rails, I get spark on the plugs, i have oil pressure as the oil is pumping out in the heads. I have been told to try a bunch of different things from folks on here from me having washed out cylinders, to a timing issue. As people have pointed out on here, I am not a engine builder and just work on my car for fun. Its not that I am not listening to folks on here, its that I try what they tell me to and nothing works.. So I go back to the beginning to start a compression test as i dont know what else to do.. I look for help on here from folks and alot of the time i get great feedback.

 

OK, been doing alot of reading on here and doing some more checking on electrical. So now, I am getting no power to the injectors.. i checked the fuses and they are all good. I hooked up a noid light to the injector harness and turned the key on, and no illumination on noid light.. I am running a MSD ignition system and distributor. Was working perfectly before the upgrades this winter.. even put a new cap and rotor on distributor.. I dident even think of checking the fuel injectors until now because i had fuel pressure at the rail and they worked perfectly before... Any new suggestions??

 

Hey OP. take a step back and think, how could anything you did with an intake effect compression on your motor?

I’ve only been on this forum for two years. But one thing I have realized is that every problem I’ve had with my Formula has already been solved multiple times by other people here.

I’m not saying to just blanket accept anything someone posts but it’s worth checking out the members profile. If that dude‘s been around for years and has hundreds of posts (amazingly, this forum doesn’t seem to attract trolls) he probably knows what he’s talking about.

Sometimes the advice is a little technical for a general post. In that case I will usually PM them. 9 times out of 10 they respond and I have even talked to some members on the phone.

 

Check c207 for injector power. Straight run from there to the injectors through the fender pass through wires.

 

Its pretty simple. Do you have fuel pressure? Power to injectors while cranking? After cranking pull a plug out, does it have fuel on it or smell like fuel? Test for spark out of the plug wires while cranking.

if have fuel and spark, its timing related most likely.

 

^^^ This ^^^

Specifically, the cylinder that the distributor is trying to fire at any given time; NOT, what you would ordinarily think of as "advance" and "retard". A WHOLE LOT MORE of a "timing" malfunction than that.

Did you ever assure yourself that when #1 is at the firing instance of TDC - NOT the instance where its valves are "changing over", and which is also #6 firing - the distributor rotor is pointing slightly to the driver's side from straight ahead; that the #1 spark plug wire is installed at that spot; that the other 8 are in the firing order 18436572 around the cap; and the rockers you disturbed are put back where they were correctly? Those would be THE VERY FIRST THINGS to set in order.

Then, if the distributor fails to provide reference pulses to the ECM, the injectors will prime when you turn on the key, but since the ECM won't have any idea that the engine is spinning when you try to start it, it won't pulse them anymore after that. You will end up with neither fuel nor spark. MSD boxes are well and widely known to fail and cause all manner of weirdness; if it turns out that lack of reference pulses is an issue, I'd recommend doing away with all that and restoring the ignition system to stock condition, then go from there.

Leave the compression test idea behind you. Forget about it altogether. Stop talking about it. Don't say it again, it is a detour from the path from your broken car to repairing it. Almost like a shiny thing laying somewhere off the path begging you to get distracted by it. Of all the things (there are 3) that will cause an engine not to run, that's THE LAST in terms of likelihood. It isn't going to disappear from an intake change. Fuel and spark OTOH might very easily have been affected by something you disturbed. Go back and CHECK YOUR WORK FIRST, specifically in this case, the rocker installation, and the relationship of the distributor angle to the 2 instances of #1 TDC that occur during the engine cycle; and then, the distributor itself.

 

Hello, I have 47lbs fuel pressure on the rail. I hooked up a noid light to both injector banks and turned ignition on and no illumination. I pulled plug after cranking and no fuel smell on plug. I have spark comming off the plugs when cranking, but the msd box make a very high pitched noise when the box is firing the spark plugs.

 

The c207 harness connects to the ecm correct??

 

I will not worry about compression test then.. I do get spark on all my wires from the distributor. 47psi of fuel at the rails, no noid light illumination on injector harnesses on both sides.. Checked the fuses and they are good.. Checked the wiring on the back of the ICM everything all hooked up correctly.. MSD box makes a high pitched "tweeting" sound when rolling over engine. Spark plugs do not smell like fuel when checked. Everything was working perfectly before top end teardown..

 

yes it has ecm accessory power, injector power ecm. Kinda a clear color connector.

 

All harness grounds connected at the heads? Didnt accidentally disconnect one?

I think you narrowed it down if its not pulsing injectors. Idk why your ignition box would be making “noise”.

 

Yes, I made sure that I reconnected them all after i installed the new AFR heads.. I dont know why the box is making that noise either!!!

 

Ok, I found it.. What do I have to test on it?!?! and how?!?!

 

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport..._1989_C207.gif
check to see if you have injector power at the c207 condition

 

Found it.. how do i test it?!?! I have a multimeter.. What am i looking for and what wires?!?!

 

Ok, I took my ICM to the parts store and they tested it and it was bad... I bought a new one, installed it, and still not working...

 

why pull the icm if you don't have power to injectors?

 

I read somewhere on one of the boards that a bad ICM caused the ECM not to receive a signal to pulse the injectors?!?! So, I had it checked, it was bad, and put a new one on.. Question, would any of the wires that connect to the coil and distributor have possible anything to do with the injector issue.. I cleaned up the wiring on the MSD 8876 wiring harness and maybe that could have screwed something up?!?!?

 

If you don’t have power as stated above to injectors start there. The icm does send a signal down the purple/white wire from icm to ecm and cram grounds injectors.

 

How would I test the harness with a multimeter???