Zepher

iTrader: (1)

I need the above items badly.

I am reading this very good book called Maximum Boost. Dives deep into designing and building a Turbo charged motor.

soulbounder

Zepher, wind tunnels are expensive; just a forewarning. Hope you reach your 200 mark in two years are so. One thing that I think would help you a great deal is smoothing out as much of the bottom of the car as possible. Maybe using fiberglass to make panels that cover areas of major drag.

CamaroX84

What's the speed rating on your tires? Also, hope you have a driveshaft safety loop....

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

I am going to have all the safety elements on the car before I attempt to go that fast, I may be crazy but I am not stupid.

Oh, and I got my car running, finally.
Carb to TPI Conversion is a major PITA

Spifz

This is not a flame in any way.

How much distance did it take you to get up to speed? I think I read that it took a while from 130 to 160, I guess you would be covering ground quickly Anyway, while talking to friends of mine, we often wondered whether top speed tests should be conducted over a certain distance, because like we always said, "my mom's olds. can make it to 100, but it takes 2 miles." How should that compare to a car that can get to 100 in the 1/4, and 120 in the 1/2?

This is probably wrong here, but I always studied wind resistance increasing as the square of the speed, not the cube. Maybe the square is only good up to a certain resistance, with a cube term being predominant when speed exceeds a certain point. Someone correct me if wrong here, I'm a math/cs major, and I just gotta know...

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

I got to about 120 or so in 4th gear, then when I shifted to 5th, that is where it started to take a long time to gain speed.
Must have taken 30 seconds or more.

silentneko

it only took you 30 seconds to crawl up to 160mph. ok now I know you didn't make it to 160. in 5th gear if you were on ahigh banked speedway it would have taken you most likely 90-120 seconds to get up there. accelerating 40mph in 5th gear in 30 seconds just does not sound possible. not trying to be mean just saying. when I did the one run in the viper even with a 6-speed and I'm guessing almost 550hp to took about 45 seconds to get from 140 to almost 180.

viper gts 6-speed 550hp = 180mph+

trans am 5-speed 200hp = 160mph

the numbers just don't seem to match up to me.

GreenProStreet

They do match up. All aero drag is the third, so it would take a lot of hp. Not to get back to "a formula here, a formula there" but... It would suck the ponies up pretty fast. Plus, a Viper isn't the most aero dynamic car in the world, and gearing plays a factor. A 600 hp Lambourghini Contach would be tied in a top speed shootout by a 250 hp NSX. What does that say!?!

I don't know where your headed with your turbo 305, but it doesn't sound the wisest thing in the world. You will have do do the 350 before the turbos for a veriety of reasons. You will need forged pistons with specialty oil groves to handle that. That will be mucho dinero for a 305 bore.

If I was able to pump 500 bucks a month into my SC, I would buy a Firebird, and hit it with a LS1 or LT4. 2 stges of nitrous through the MAF, and direct port dry nitrous into the manifold for third. You would probably equal in costs, and you have a reassuring 700 hp on tap. But you would have to do the same sort of stuff- Crank, pistons, and your tranny would match up.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

30 seconds is a long time, and I did say 30 seconds or more.
I was travelling at 60mph. Dropped it to 3rd then up to 4th and around 120-130 put it in 5th.

Travelled about 2 miles from when I punched it til I slowed down and got off the highway.

Next time I will try and time it.

All I know is that when I hit 5000rpms in 5th, the car wasn't accelerating any more.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

About the Turbo 305, I just want to get the Turbo setup hooked up and running on the 305 while the 350 is being built.
As soon as the turbo setup runs, I'll pull the 305 and put in the built 350 and put everything back together.

Maybe I'll look into getting a 3rd gen Firebird chassis and use that and the 350 to get all the piping and everything test fitted into the engine bay for my application.

What do you think about that?

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

Oh, and this was the engine I was running before,


And this is what my car looked like,

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

RMK, the Cd. of your car is .34 conidering it is all stock on the exterior.

Spifz

Hey, sounds like a good plan with the turbo setup. Are you then planning on running the 350 with the turbo setup, since it will be all setup for your car? That would be sweet, especially if you built the 350 specially for a turbo application. I bet you could see all of 600 hp then, (parallel Lingenfelter a little bit...

I'll bet that will do 180+

Grim Reaper

I seriously doubt that ANY stock 3rd Gen F-body will hit 160 MPH.

In 1991 a magazine did a "How fast will they go" article (Motor Trend I think). They tested a 1991 Vette (L98 6-speed), 91 Firebird Formula (L98), 91 Camora Z/28 (L98) and a Mustang. I can't remember the exact model.

The Vette was the fastest at 158, Firebird second at 153, Camaro at 150 and the Mustang was somewhere around 145 mph. These were measured using radar - not the actual speedos.

If I ever get a chance to get back into my "storage", I will see if I can dig up the magazine article.

mcconahay37

iTrader: (3)

In the November 2000 issue of Chevy High Performance, there is an aricle about a guy named Tim Hynes. He took an 89 Camaro, kept the body almost totally stock other than smoothing a few things out and ran 206 mph with 610 hp. is first attempt, he ran 184 mph with 345 hp.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

My car wasn't stock.

Grim Reaper

If it is based on your current mods listed, I still consider it "basically stock". If you ran 160 when you were TBI per your web site, I don't think you had the HP to do 160 since you were only running a 14.9@91 - that's less than any of the 1991 cars I mentioned.

Not being a bad guy, but I just don't see the mods to propel you to an actual 160 mph. Though I would agree that you were probably close to or in the 150 mph range.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

Actually, my car was carbed. Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Edelbrock 7101 Intake Manifold, MSD HEI coil, K&N 14x3 Air Filter in an Edelbrock Open Element Air Cleaner, No A/C or Smog, and a flowmaster muffler. Everything else was stock, or close to it.

GreenProStreet

Hey, I hope you are not planning on your turbos with that Edelbrock sitting on top. A Mini-Ram would work out much better. If those are 87+ heads and the Edelbrock is a spreadbore, I'll buy that intake off you.

I was just saying that your 305 will be spitting their rings or cast pistons out with the boost of the turbos, whichever bails first. Turbo is a great setup for the street, but I havent seen it with a carb. With good boost you could run 11s and still maintain 20+ mpg, with the stock camshaft. Ahhh... The wonders of technology. But the tubing is complicated, you need to run intercoolers infront of your radiators, and they are ecpensive.

Some good turbo cars are: Ligenfelter Corvettes, The Ligenfelter s-15 (crazy) and a Gt-350 I remember in Hot Rod. Oh yah, TTA and the '84 aftermarket 305 Turbo Camaro.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

my car is a TPI 305 now,


And all the carb stuff was sold a while back.

AdioSS

600 hp can be achieved much easier with more cubic inches. It's a simple fact. When you are pushing out that much power with a smaller engine, everything has to work harder. More stress will reduce the life of your engine.

I suggest, that at the bare minimum, you get a forged 3.75" crank and use the minimum overbore, if any at all. A 4" bore with the larger stroke would put you at 377cid. This would give you plenty of torque that would let you get to higher RPMs quicker. I'd get rid of the TPI and go with a Tunnel Ram style intake with a 58mm twin barrel throttle body. Coupled with the GTP-6 cam and 1.6 rockers, but ground on a 114 LS (for the future turbo) and an open exhaust, you'd be making over 500fwhp with a flat peak from 6000-65000RPM and over 450ft-lbs torque peaking at 5000rpm. Oh course a well ported set of heads would be required. Add any turbo and you'll pump the power way up. Add an intercooler and it'd be very fun

This would put you over 185 in a 1:1 gear with a 28" tire with a 2.73 rear gear. By 6500 you'd be over 200MPH. If this in an auto tranny, be sure to have a locking torque converter.

Also, don't trust the speedometer OR the tach at higher speeds. You will NEED a Global Positioning System (GPS) to know how fast you'll be going. Even the best speed rated tires expand at higher speeds.

Hope this helps

AdioSS

Then again, do all this with a similar camshaft and good heads on a 454 big block, and you'll get the over 100hp more and over 100ft-lbs more.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the great info.

I will have a different intake on the car as well as a larger motor.
Tranny will be a 6 speed.

87transam5.7tpi

If I were you I'd put a rollcage in first thing. If a tire blew or anything on your car above 150mph chances are you'd be done for :-)

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

Roll cage is on the agenda already.

mcconahay37

iTrader: (3)

It's a lot easier to get the weight distribution you need with a small block. Big blocks are cool, but unless you plan on moving the engine back and maybe down until you get decent weight ratio, it's a lot easier to use a small block if you want the car to handle really well.

Spifz

Does anyone really know from experience what the weight difference is between a big block and a small block? I only ask because thats all I heard before I started my project. "With that big motor, you car will be all heavy in the front, and won't corner at all anymore. You will wreck the weight distribution..."

Have your well built friend sit on the hood. That's the weight difference. I checked. You want it to be even? Then drop the big block iron intake manifold (mine weighs 62 lbs) for a 20 lb aluminum one, and you are already 25% of the way there.

As AdioSS said, its easier to make more power with more inches. Oh yea, just for conversation, I read a while back, 454 twin turbo, using all 'junk yard' parts, made 722 ft/lbs of torque at 2000 rpm.

Cheers,

Guest

I also seriously doubt you were doing 160mph. You might have hit 145 or 150 at best, but no way you were going 160. If you want an example of what it takes to get to 200mph, take a look at NASCAR sometime. Bodies that see wind tunnels, and how much HP do they have? Shoot for that and you might make it.

As for wind resistance, it is the cube, not squared.

GreenProStreet

If you are going to the expense of a big-block, why wouldn't you just build a Oldsmobile Rocket block? 468 ci and the dimensions and parts of a of a small-block. A 350 is light, inexpensive and what he is planning, (I would go 400 ci, but that's me)

Weight distribution is critical in land speed. Say wou knocked down the difference to 70 lb. Thats either 70 lb that you would have to add to the rear, or 70lb thats going to get you fishtailing at 200.

Re the Bone yard 454-T. Where do you find turbos that big, and I dont think there is a stock piston in the world that could take that abuse?

Spifz

Actually, now that I remember, it was a 460 Lincoln motor. Hot Rod magazine, about 5 months ago. Anyway, even though the displacement is large, the idea of the project is that the revs would be kept low, for two reasons. First, you wouldn't need huge turbos capiable of feeding a 460 at 8000rpm, and second, the factory rotating assembly was designed for 4000 rpm and less. With the smaller turbos, they were up to speed even at low rpm, hence the monster torque at 2000 rpm. Yes, I certanly agree, it would be tough to find turbos to feed 460 even at 4500. (now maybe if we had 4 of 'em...)

GreenProStreet

4 turbos, like it...! Sounds like a saturday night beater special!

This post is running a little cold, but I will include this last extra. John Lingenfelter's TA went 298 mph, but it took 1400 hp. He actually shot nitrous on the intercoolers to get some more cooling!

Hope you got what you need, Zepher!