Ja85z28

Well I've logged almost 500 miles on my 85 Z28 since the heads and cam install. As such I began to do a little research on engine oils containing zinc and thought I might share an article written by Scott Noteboom;

I've been hearing about way too many camshafts going flat nowadays-- particularly on freshly built motors using flat tappets.

Zinc has been added to oil for years as an anti-wear additive-- particularly crucial where there is metal to metal contact in the engine-- ESPECIALLY flat tappet to camshaft contact.

Today, flat tappets dont exist in most new cars. Today, emissions has pressured oil companies to remove zinc from oil. So, a necessary component for older cars has been going away.... BEWARE.

BOTTOM LINE: Running an old engine without zinc in the oil is bad news-- especially when breaking in a fresh build. Ask around and you'll hear about high rates of camshafts going flat. Avoid the problem by choosing the right oil-- that has a zinc content of at least .11%. If you're running zero zinc content oil in an old engine, I believe you're asking for trouble.

I've done some research. Here is the zinc content of todays oils:

20W-50
AMSOIL (old) none
AMSOIL (new) none
Castrol GTX .12
Exxon High Performance .11
Havoline Formula 3 none
Kendall GT-1 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. none
Quaker State Dlx. none
Red Line none
Shell Truck Guard .15
Spectro Golden 4 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. .13
Unocal .12
Valvoline All Climate .11
Valvoline Turbo .13
Valvoline Race .20
Valvoline Synthetic .12

20W-40
AMSOIL none
Castrol Multi-Grade .12
Quaker State none

15W-50
Chevron .11
Mobil 1 none
Mystic JT8 .15
Red Line none

5W-50
Castrol Syntec .10
Quaker State Synquest none
Pennzoil Performax none

5W-40
Havoline none

15W-40
AMSOIL (old) none
AMSOIL (new) none
Castrol .14
Chevron Delo 400 none
Exxon XD3 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra .13
Kendall GT-1 .16
Mystic JT8 .15
Red Line none
Shell Rotella w/XLA .13
Valvoline All Fleet .15
Valvoline Turbo .13

10W-30
AMSOIL (old) none
AMSOIL (new) none
Castrol GTX .12
Chevron Supreme .11
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 .11
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 .13
Havoline Formula 3 none
Kendall GT-1 .16
Mobil 1 none
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo none
Quaker State none
Red Line none
Shell Fire and Ice .12
Shell Super 2000 .13
Shell Truck Guard .15
Spectro Golden M.G. none
Unocal Super .12
Valvoline All Climate .11
Valvoline Turbo .13
Valvoline Race .20
Valvoline Synthetic .12

5W-30
AMSOIL (old) none
AMSOIL (new) none
Castrol GTX .12
Chevron Supreme .11
Chevron Supreme Synt. .12
Exxon Superflow HP .11
Havoline Formula 3 none
Mobil 1 none
Mystic JT8 .1
Quaker State none
Red Line none
Shell Fire and Ice .12
Unocal .12
Valvoline All Climate .11
Valvoline Turbo .13
Valvoline Synthetic .12

-scott noteboom

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Well Amsoil 10w40 premium protection and 20w50 premium protection both have 0.1378% (1378 ppm).

So I don't know where he got those numbers on Amsoil but it's wrong.

GD

Ja85z28

14-40w Rotella T3 wasn't listed either, but I know that it contain zink phosphorous.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Amsoil's break in oil is .22, and the Dominator race oil we run in pretty much everything is .157

The Z-Rod for classic cars is .144

GD

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yep, those are the relevant AMSOIL numbers.

This isn't only a recent phenomenon, though. Had a '67 327 flatten a lobe in the mid-70's. Knew of a 307 in '73 that did the same thing. That was poor cam quality in those days, though.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Ja85z28, what have you decided to use? Any additives?

Strain your drain oil through a fine paint strainer.

Also, after you do the oil change, cut the oil filter open and inspect.

And I know you are smart enough not to think you can run this stuff and not do any oil changes for a year:

Marvel Mystery Oil is actually Singer sewing machine oil.
Substitute 1/2 quart in your oil change. It works to keep the engine clean and the top end lubricated.

Grumpyvette says: MMO is NOT an oil additive!, its simply a rather thin viscosity, high quality automotive and machine oil, with a high level of sludge solvent, and friction reducing additives that works well at breaking down and holding in suspension micro contaminants so the oil filter can trap and hold them.
its not a miracle cure for anything but it certainly helps keep engine parts cleaner, and its well documented to help free up sticky moving parts over time.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Nearly all Amsoil products are rated for 12 months use. In fact I generally go way beyond that. The 305 in my Trans Am got 10w40 premium protection after flushing, etc. It leaks a little and probably burns a small quantity and besides topping it off, I will never change that oil again till I pull it for a 383 install. I'll do the filter every 5k or so. The Amsoil can EASILY handle 25k miles and with top offs for leakage, consumption, and filter changes it will realistically never need to be changed.

I daily the car so it doesn't see any level of moisture build up. And my commute is 10 miles. Also if it does blow up..... Oh well. I have lots of other vehicles and it would just be an excuse to upgrade it sooner. The unfortunate reality is that Amsoil will keep it going long after I'm done with it. And even running great it's a boat anchor with zero value.

GD

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

The reason for changing oil is to remove the contaminants the oil has captured and to replace the additive package. You are not doing either of these 2 things.

Ja85z28

IMHO The main reason for a 500 mile oil change is the inspection ofthe oil filter. Oil is cheap crankshaft and rods are expensive. I will be cutting open the filter for a look see. By the way, I have been eyeballing the dip stick for "glitter."

I am leaning towards Rotella T3 15w40 and 1 bottle of the Rislone additive. This has been my combination thus far and should I develop an issue? I might have a good argument for a product liability claim.

In the past, I have utilized Castrol GTX 20w50 with excellent results. However, that was in my 496 solid roller motor.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

The filter removes the contaminants and the additive package is renewed when you change the filter and do top offs from consumption, etc.

Oil analysis has proven to me that the additive package is easily good for 25k on an engine that uses no oil. Being I own a shop that builds engines I have had occasion to do both tear downs and oil analysis on both factory and built engines. Changing oil at 3k is completely wasteful IMO.

A break in oil change should be done at 500. Definitely. But as stated mostly it's to check the filter and drain plug magnet. If you can see anything in the filter other than a few very tiny flakes, and more than a wisp of swirl to the oil - tear it down. Drain plug magnets always seem to find some "hair" on cast iron engines. Shouldn't have the Sherwood forest on there though.

GD

Ja85z28

I found this comment on the Web reported to be from a staff engineer with Shell Oil;

Here is his reply:
We still sell 15w-40 CI-4 in 55 gallon drums, but not in smaller packages. It has approximately 1400 ppm zinc. You can buy this from a shell distributor.
Since Oct. 15,2006 all small packaging has been with triple and it has approximately 1200 ppm zinc. This is 50% more zinc than current passenger car http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=motor oils which contain approximately 800 ppm zinc. Passenger car motor oils had approximately 1200 ppm zinc prior to 2001. In 2001 the zinc was reduced to 1000 ppm and in 2005 reduced again to the current 800 ppm.
Thus, the new with triple has the same zinc content that passenger car http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=motor oils had in 2000 before the current problems with flat tappets began.
However, zinc compounds are not the only additives that can reduce wear. We were able to reduce wear approximately 50% with the new with triple formulation.

This is from a staff engineer in Houston, Texas.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Why don't you get some Amsoil Z-Rod? It's not just about the zinc. There are other additives that are important too. You wouldn't need the ZDDP additive with Z-Rod.

GD

Ja85z28

MSRP $11.60 a quart vs $18.00 a gallon before any available discounts. I buy my oil at Pepboys and they charge me $10 labor. The used motoroil is then disposed of properly. I'm not bagging on AMSOIL they've got fantastic products. I haven't hesitated to use them in my other vehicles. Right now, I'm in the final leg of the break-in phase, and for reasons detailed previously, it wouldn't be prudent to switch.

The link below is supposed to be the top 10 oil additives for 2017.

https://youtu.be/fB5_L5GaV3w

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

The reason I choose to use an additive is because the oil companies are constantly changing their formulations. You never know what is in there, or not, until it might be too late. I know it's in there if I put it in myself.

I really like what I see with the Rislone additive. I will most likely buy it the next time.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Amsoil doesn't do that because many of their hot rod and race oils aren't API certified anyway. So they could care less about meeting manufacturer and emissions guidelines with regards to additives, etc. They make oil that's best for the engine - regardless of what the new car manufacturers and government agencies have to say about it.

GD

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Been using Rotella T6 in my GTA since I put the new engine in. I like it because its easy to get, and good for the high spring rate of the valve springs.

The daily driver Focus RS gets Ford's 5w-50 full synthetic which they spec for all SVT and Ford Performance cars. Since the car is still in warranty it gets OEM stuff to simplify life if something were to go wrong.