help me pick a cam
#102
Re: help me pick a cam
This sounds like"without pictures" a engine who's bores where not checked for roundness and the bores not being set for proper clearances.The damage on one bore more than the others with a line would get me to look hard at that piston's rings.Round rings don't like non-round bores and the possibility of the ring ends flipping over scoring the bores or seizing on the ring lands could have happen.
When you consider the amount of material that likely polluted this entire engine,the teardown should be only a lesson and a curiosity factor.But with no intention of using it again.Save yourself some trouble and give up the hope to move off this rock to another bare block-short block. Well really more than that!. Again the L31 answer.Affordable at that too with a better 1pc rms.
This advise is from a engine builder not making dime one from this just wanting to help pay back all those that have help me along the way.
When you consider the amount of material that likely polluted this entire engine,the teardown should be only a lesson and a curiosity factor.But with no intention of using it again.Save yourself some trouble and give up the hope to move off this rock to another bare block-short block. Well really more than that!. Again the L31 answer.Affordable at that too with a better 1pc rms.
This advise is from a engine builder not making dime one from this just wanting to help pay back all those that have help me along the way.
Dave
#103
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
Well I'm out, Gary and his secret race team, vast experience, and yellow mini van , wait, you also have a roller Malibu that's gonna run 12's with a BBC that your not actually building yourself, yep, I apologize to the OP for making it very simple, very uncomplicated, and work within a budget to meet your goals. Good luck and I hope it works out.
Dave
Dave
#104
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Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 377
Transmission: TH350; Circle D 4200 converter
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"
Re: help me pick a cam
That carb is perfectly fine. It's actually one of the better carbs you can get if you're looking for a vacuum secondaries setup. I think mechanical secondaries are better all the way around, but that's also my OPINION and should be taken as such.
$700 is a waste for an OEM style block. You might as well buy an aftermarket large bore 400 block for a few hundred more if you're going to go that route. Find a good used block for $125 and get someone who knows what they're doing to get all the necessary work done. Around here it runs about $350 for all the basic necessary machine work for a good strip build.
$700 is a waste for an OEM style block. You might as well buy an aftermarket large bore 400 block for a few hundred more if you're going to go that route. Find a good used block for $125 and get someone who knows what they're doing to get all the necessary work done. Around here it runs about $350 for all the basic necessary machine work for a good strip build.
#105
Supreme Member
Re: help me pick a cam
That carb is perfectly fine. It's actually one of the better carbs you can get if you're looking for a vacuum secondaries setup. I think mechanical secondaries are better all the way around, but that's also my OPINION and should be taken as such.
$700 is a waste for an OEM style block. You might as well buy an aftermarket large bore 400 block for a few hundred more if you're going to go that route. Find a good used block for $125 and get someone who knows what they're doing to get all the necessary work done. Around here it runs about $350 for all the basic necessary machine work for a good strip build.
$700 is a waste for an OEM style block. You might as well buy an aftermarket large bore 400 block for a few hundred more if you're going to go that route. Find a good used block for $125 and get someone who knows what they're doing to get all the necessary work done. Around here it runs about $350 for all the basic necessary machine work for a good strip build.
700 - 475 = 225 $ (- time spent locating a good core and a shop that knows what they are doing, - time spent dropping off and picking block, -$ for shop to magnaflux core to make sure it is indeed good)
At this point 700$ to have a fully machined block dropped off at your door is actually not a bad price.
To step up to a Dart SHP block it will cost some more... but it will not come fully machined.
I get impression OP is on tight budget, an OEM block is just fine for a pump gas "street engine" that may see some occasional dragstrip use...
if he is planning a high compression, race gas engine that will see alot of track use, forget the OEM block and start with a Dart SHP or other aftermarket.
#107
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
low 12s is the main objective im not looking to make a 1000hp engine. i want a 12 second street/strip car. orr89rocz is right on the money, i dont need top of the line fancy items.
#108
Supreme Member
Re: help me pick a cam
Find a complete vortec 350 at a junk yard, have the heads and block checked out. Sell what you have and build a nice 400hp vortec motor.
#109
Re: help me pick a cam
Low 12's is alittle more effort but still doable. Guy here is doin 11.7's on a stock vortec head 350 with a big roller cam. You can get there with some effort. Fresh valve job to your heads with proper springs and a xe274 should do it. Vortec may get there too but need to rely more on launch than top end hp
#110
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Re: help me pick a cam
Low 12's is alittle more effort but still doable. Guy here is doin 11.7's on a stock vortec head 350 with a big roller cam. You can get there with some effort. Fresh valve job to your heads with proper springs and a xe274 should do it. Vortec may get there too but need to rely more on launch than top end hp
I just dig vortec engines they never seem to disappoint on the street or the strip as long as your goals are not below 12s. Just seem to have awesome street manners.
#112
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Car: 1984 TA - 17k orig miles
Engine: 355
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.44 Dana 44 performance rear
Re: help me pick a cam
billybob6110 - Guess nobody has asked - what's your budget for the repair/upgrades and are you on a timeline of any sort (i.e. need the car as a work driver so swap has to be done over a weekend, etc.)
We already know 12 sec car - go find quarter mile calculator, plug in some numbers and that will give a ballpark idea of HP required to move your (assuming) full weight car into the 12's and then that's your HP goal (take the calculators with a grain of salt - they assume perfect traction, optimized converter/gearing, etc.) - My guess is roughly 350 RWHP is going to be needed to get you where you want to be performance wise. Add in the loss for the drivetrain and you're looking around 400 crank hp is going to be needed (15-20% loss).
Sounds like you really really need to find a good local machine shop to check out the 'new' block, tell you what it's going to take to clean it up (i.e. bore size) and have them check the crankshaft and what it's going to take to clean it up (polish and std bearings, or have to cut it undersized) - once you know all that - and not before - then you can start ordering parts.
We already know 12 sec car - go find quarter mile calculator, plug in some numbers and that will give a ballpark idea of HP required to move your (assuming) full weight car into the 12's and then that's your HP goal (take the calculators with a grain of salt - they assume perfect traction, optimized converter/gearing, etc.) - My guess is roughly 350 RWHP is going to be needed to get you where you want to be performance wise. Add in the loss for the drivetrain and you're looking around 400 crank hp is going to be needed (15-20% loss).
Sounds like you really really need to find a good local machine shop to check out the 'new' block, tell you what it's going to take to clean it up (i.e. bore size) and have them check the crankshaft and what it's going to take to clean it up (polish and std bearings, or have to cut it undersized) - once you know all that - and not before - then you can start ordering parts.
#113
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
billybob6110 - Guess nobody has asked - what's your budget for the repair/upgrades and are you on a timeline of any sort (i.e. need the car as a work driver so swap has to be done over a weekend, etc.)
We already know 12 sec car - go find quarter mile calculator, plug in some numbers and that will give a ballpark idea of HP required to move your (assuming) full weight car into the 12's and then that's your HP goal (take the calculators with a grain of salt - they assume perfect traction, optimized converter/gearing, etc.) - My guess is roughly 350 RWHP is going to be needed to get you where you want to be performance wise. Add in the loss for the drivetrain and you're looking around 400 crank hp is going to be needed (15-20% loss).
Sounds like you really really need to find a good local machine shop to check out the 'new' block, tell you what it's going to take to clean it up (i.e. bore size) and have them check the crankshaft and what it's going to take to clean it up (polish and std bearings, or have to cut it undersized) - once you know all that - and not before - then you can start ordering parts.
We already know 12 sec car - go find quarter mile calculator, plug in some numbers and that will give a ballpark idea of HP required to move your (assuming) full weight car into the 12's and then that's your HP goal (take the calculators with a grain of salt - they assume perfect traction, optimized converter/gearing, etc.) - My guess is roughly 350 RWHP is going to be needed to get you where you want to be performance wise. Add in the loss for the drivetrain and you're looking around 400 crank hp is going to be needed (15-20% loss).
Sounds like you really really need to find a good local machine shop to check out the 'new' block, tell you what it's going to take to clean it up (i.e. bore size) and have them check the crankshaft and what it's going to take to clean it up (polish and std bearings, or have to cut it undersized) - once you know all that - and not before - then you can start ordering parts.
#114
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
Low 12's is alittle more effort but still doable. Guy here is doin 11.7's on a stock vortec head 350 with a big roller cam. You can get there with some effort. Fresh valve job to your heads with proper springs and a xe274 should do it. Vortec may get there too but need to rely more on launch than top end hp
#116
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Car: 1984 TA - 17k orig miles
Engine: 355
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.44 Dana 44 performance rear
Re: help me pick a cam
here's what I 'see' you need (which puts you right around $1500 for everything not including the optional parts)
~$200 donor /core roller short block (get you block,crank, cam. lifters, retainer, pushrods, etc. - for that $ you should be able to pick up a complete vortec and sell the heads for almost that)
$575 - block machine work per your shop (assuming that includes pressing pistons off/on and re-sizing rods - since the price is a lot higher than only block prep around here...)
~$250 ish hydraulic roller camshaft, re-use roller lifters from donor if they're in good shape. (otherwise add $150-200 for stock style)
~$50-100 machine shop to check heads over and verify everything is in good shape as you thought.
~$60-100 to polish crankshaft or a light turning to get it back into spec
~$250 - engine rebuild kit
~$100 misc fluids, plugs, header gaskets, etc.
You'll likely need:
~$60-100 hardened pushrods in the right length (assuming the heads have guide plates and they need to be matched for the combo)
~$50-100 head gaskets the proper thickness to get the right quench/compression (usually the kits have cheap .041" head gaskets and getting quench right with those requires 'zero' decking the block (~$150) or offset grinding the crank (my preference if it's got to be ground anyhow) and a light skim of the deck.
#117
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Re: help me pick a cam
[QUOTE=bwiencek;5623424]Sounds like your budget is fair...
here's what I 'see' you need (which puts you right around $1500 for everything not including the optional parts)
~$200 donor /core roller short block (get you block,crank, cam. lifters, retainer, pushrods, etc. - for that $ you should be able to pick up a complete vortec and sell the heads for almost that)
$575 - block machine work per your shop QUOTE]
OP was looking a Summit remanufactured block for 700 $
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150100
here's what I 'see' you need (which puts you right around $1500 for everything not including the optional parts)
~$200 donor /core roller short block (get you block,crank, cam. lifters, retainer, pushrods, etc. - for that $ you should be able to pick up a complete vortec and sell the heads for almost that)
$575 - block machine work per your shop QUOTE]
OP was looking a Summit remanufactured block for 700 $
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150100
#118
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
[quote=FRMULA88;5623427] i wonder if im almost better of buying a crate 355 or 383 rather then trying to piece and part together a motor. thoughts?
Sounds like your budget is fair...
here's what I 'see' you need (which puts you right around $1500 for everything not including the optional parts)
~$200 donor /core roller short block (get you block,crank, cam. lifters, retainer, pushrods, etc. - for that $ you should be able to pick up a complete vortec and sell the heads for almost that)
$575 - block machine work per your shop QUOTE]
OP was looking a Summit remanufactured block for 700 $
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150100
here's what I 'see' you need (which puts you right around $1500 for everything not including the optional parts)
~$200 donor /core roller short block (get you block,crank, cam. lifters, retainer, pushrods, etc. - for that $ you should be able to pick up a complete vortec and sell the heads for almost that)
$575 - block machine work per your shop QUOTE]
OP was looking a Summit remanufactured block for 700 $
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150100
#120
Supreme Member
Re: help me pick a cam
[QUOTE=DeltaElite121;5623442]
not sure where you got those facts from? but far from true.
OP, check out skoggin dickie catalog (one of this sites sponsor's )
You can get a GM Perf. Products crate motor.. with a warranty ! it really depends how much you want to spend because they have modest motors to wild.
http://www.scoggindickey.com/?http://www.sdparts.com
not sure where you got those facts from? but far from true.
OP, check out skoggin dickie catalog (one of this sites sponsor's )
You can get a GM Perf. Products crate motor.. with a warranty ! it really depends how much you want to spend because they have modest motors to wild.
http://www.scoggindickey.com/?http://www.sdparts.com
#121
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Car: 1984 TA - 17k orig miles
Engine: 355
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.44 Dana 44 performance rear
Re: help me pick a cam
I would say YES under only a couple of conditions:
- You need it to be dead reliable and a warranty helps protect the investment for those that might not have cash to repair a major failure later
- If you need the engine to be pulled on a Saturday and running on Sunday to be driving back to work on Monday..
- If you have no good machine shop in the area or don't know how to pick one
- If you're unsure of matching parts and want a known proven combo. (or you don't have time/knowledge to research and pick matching parts)
- If you're going to purchase from a nationally known reputable company with a history of support and warranty service after the sale (i.e. GM crate engine)
Some people are better off buying a crate engine and giving up some cost savings or horsepower in trade for the warranty or reliability or time savings...
#122
Re: help me pick a cam
The sad truth is crate motors and once meant something is long gone. The deals that are,are only because of the low dollar weak link parts in use,the low QC machine off shore work that was done.Don't kid yourself thinking any of the box store outlets have build a damm thing.We have repaired a bunch of GM crate engines people have bought before they where installed.Mainly sub standard machine work issues.There isn't a magic genie out there that suddenly makes a good build cheaper.
The advantage of a you build is you get to mix the parts for somethings that are important to the use of the engine and somethings in the choices of what parts that are not.A crate deal,you getting the parts that are already dealt to you.........and the workmanship..............
The advantage of a you build is you get to mix the parts for somethings that are important to the use of the engine and somethings in the choices of what parts that are not.A crate deal,you getting the parts that are already dealt to you.........and the workmanship..............
#123
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Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 377
Transmission: TH350; Circle D 4200 converter
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"
Re: help me pick a cam
[QUOTE=FRMULA88;5623468]
not sure where you got those facts from? but far from true.
OP, check out skoggin dickie catalog (one of this sites sponsor's )
You can get a GM Perf. Products crate motor.. with a warranty ! it really depends how much you want to spend because they have modest motors to wild.
http://www.scoggindickey.com/?http://www.sdparts.com
Tell me something - do you honestly think a warranty on a motor covers everything? It's not like Walmart where you just send it back and get another one if something goes wrong. I've seen plenty of those crate motors and they're crap for a premium pricetag simple for the sake of "plug and play" because people are too lazy to do their homework and expect instant results. If it does have good parts in it, you WILL pay a lot more for it. Even then; read the fine print on their motors.
I've seen plenty of these mainstream companies give people the run-around... "did you get it professionally installed and have the paperwork for it? Oh, you didn't? You did the install yourself? Well then there's no way for us to definitively know that you didn't screw it up, so... Sorry!" /sunk
Bwiencek explained it in more thorough detail. I personally think it's a massive waste of money when you can get the same or better quality for literally hundreds (if not thousands) less... and that's having someone local assemble it. That, and it's critical to support local machine shops or you might find you don't have one in another year or so. We've had a ton of them close up over the past few years here, and I live 25 minutes from St.Louis.
There are no "deals" in the performance world. Everything good has a price to pay, and everything easy suffers either a high cost, or quality. One of the two. Pick your poison.
not sure where you got those facts from? but far from true.
OP, check out skoggin dickie catalog (one of this sites sponsor's )
You can get a GM Perf. Products crate motor.. with a warranty ! it really depends how much you want to spend because they have modest motors to wild.
http://www.scoggindickey.com/?http://www.sdparts.com
Tell me something - do you honestly think a warranty on a motor covers everything? It's not like Walmart where you just send it back and get another one if something goes wrong. I've seen plenty of those crate motors and they're crap for a premium pricetag simple for the sake of "plug and play" because people are too lazy to do their homework and expect instant results. If it does have good parts in it, you WILL pay a lot more for it. Even then; read the fine print on their motors.
I've seen plenty of these mainstream companies give people the run-around... "did you get it professionally installed and have the paperwork for it? Oh, you didn't? You did the install yourself? Well then there's no way for us to definitively know that you didn't screw it up, so... Sorry!" /sunk
Bwiencek explained it in more thorough detail. I personally think it's a massive waste of money when you can get the same or better quality for literally hundreds (if not thousands) less... and that's having someone local assemble it. That, and it's critical to support local machine shops or you might find you don't have one in another year or so. We've had a ton of them close up over the past few years here, and I live 25 minutes from St.Louis.
There are no "deals" in the performance world. Everything good has a price to pay, and everything easy suffers either a high cost, or quality. One of the two. Pick your poison.
#124
Re: help me pick a cam
I hope that alot of members read this.INTERESTING THIS THREAD STARTED OUT ASKING ABOUT A CAM AND ENDED UP FINDING SO MUCH MORE.DON'T ANY LONGER WONDER WHY QUESTIONS IN FORUMS LIKE THIS IS SOMETIMES LIKE PEELING A ONION FOR INFO.WHEN BUILDING ENGINES DETAILS COUNT HUGE!!!. REALLY THERE ISN'T OFF TOPIC SUBJECTS TO A POSITIVE OUTCOME.BIG PICTURE BUILDS WORK OUT TO BE THAT WAY. AGAIN,NO ONE PART ALL ON IT'S OWN MAKES THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE!!.
#125
Supreme Member
Re: help me pick a cam
[QUOTE=DeltaElite121;5623618] strong words from a guy who insists that using cast crankshafts in a 10s drag car is the good / right thing to do.
you can only choose 2 options when building a car:
cheap
fast
reliable
cheap & reliable -- OEM engine... will run forever, but wont' be "fast".
cheap & fast --- it will run like hell, but always fixing something.
fast & reliable -- cheap is not an option..
you can only choose 2 options when building a car:
cheap
fast
reliable
cheap & reliable -- OEM engine... will run forever, but wont' be "fast".
cheap & fast --- it will run like hell, but always fixing something.
fast & reliable -- cheap is not an option..
#129
Supreme Member
Re: help me pick a cam
I'll believe it when I see it, post up some pics of this truck along with some timeslips.
post this for all to see the quality fab work, etc.
even if you did it all yourself it's not cheap unless your time is worth nothing... and quality parts are not cheap either.
#130
Re: help me pick a cam
I'm not wasting my time or the OP's by posting all the countless turbo 4.8-6.0 builds that have lived for many years through 600-800 hp in various cars and trucks around. I could take days gathering all the builds over the years to post them here. I will just share a quick 3 out of the ones I know of around my area. If you are uneducated about what has been going on in the LS world, do your own research on ls forums like ls1tech, various truck forums,yellowbullet, chevelles.com and mainly theturboforums.net.
Its really eye opening to see what has been done on stock motors from the General. They dont need much work, they dont need special parts.
My 3 favorite references are my 2 friends and the guy I sold my twin T60 turbos to. My friend with trucks has done a 4.8, i think 2 5.3 builds now, and a 6.0 ls2 based project. The current 5.3 has been in the truck for 2-3 years now, many dyno pulls and track times in a full weight silverado single cab street truck, its been 11.0 at 130 mph with a 6 spd trans on 20" wheels. Made 672whp on 12 psi. Very basic stock 5.3 internals with cam and ported heads. LS2 on E85 with same heads/cam made 816whp on a mustang dyno on 11 psi. 4.8 with a single 88mm made 702whp on pump gas 23psi at 7500 rpm with same cam that all motors had ran.
My other friend drag races in many LSx events with an el camino. 1st Try Engineering. Used to have a stock 6.0, 250K miles on it with cam only and spray. Ran bottom 11's cam only, and mid 10's with a mild shot. No special engine mods, raced for few years. Then went turbo. Has gone 9.9's at 140 so far. Stock bottom end 6.0 with LS6 cam and S400 turbo. Budget as it gets.
The guy I sold my T60's to emailed me and showed the video of him running 6.0's in the 1/8 mile at 118 mph. 7500+ rpm on a stock internal 4.8L truck takeout in a 71 chevelle.
Insane. He's been beatin on that setup
You probably wont take my word for it, so do yourself the favor and look for the info. Its out there.
And guess what? Your own time is worth nothing! You dont charge yourself.... lol its not hard to fab. I've done 2 setups already that work for few thousand bucks complete. A complete twin turbo hotside with turbos/gates/flanges and intercooler for under 3500.
Its really eye opening to see what has been done on stock motors from the General. They dont need much work, they dont need special parts.
My 3 favorite references are my 2 friends and the guy I sold my twin T60 turbos to. My friend with trucks has done a 4.8, i think 2 5.3 builds now, and a 6.0 ls2 based project. The current 5.3 has been in the truck for 2-3 years now, many dyno pulls and track times in a full weight silverado single cab street truck, its been 11.0 at 130 mph with a 6 spd trans on 20" wheels. Made 672whp on 12 psi. Very basic stock 5.3 internals with cam and ported heads. LS2 on E85 with same heads/cam made 816whp on a mustang dyno on 11 psi. 4.8 with a single 88mm made 702whp on pump gas 23psi at 7500 rpm with same cam that all motors had ran.
My other friend drag races in many LSx events with an el camino. 1st Try Engineering. Used to have a stock 6.0, 250K miles on it with cam only and spray. Ran bottom 11's cam only, and mid 10's with a mild shot. No special engine mods, raced for few years. Then went turbo. Has gone 9.9's at 140 so far. Stock bottom end 6.0 with LS6 cam and S400 turbo. Budget as it gets.
The guy I sold my T60's to emailed me and showed the video of him running 6.0's in the 1/8 mile at 118 mph. 7500+ rpm on a stock internal 4.8L truck takeout in a 71 chevelle.
Insane. He's been beatin on that setup
You probably wont take my word for it, so do yourself the favor and look for the info. Its out there.
And guess what? Your own time is worth nothing! You dont charge yourself.... lol its not hard to fab. I've done 2 setups already that work for few thousand bucks complete. A complete twin turbo hotside with turbos/gates/flanges and intercooler for under 3500.
#131
Re: help me pick a cam
I'm not wasting my time or the OP's by posting all the countless turbo 4.8-6.0 builds that have lived for many years through 600-800 hp in various cars and trucks around. I could take days gathering all the builds over the years to post them here. I will just share a quick 3 out of the ones I know of around my area. If you are uneducated about what has been going on in the LS world, do your own research on ls forums like ls1tech, various truck forums,yellowbullet, chevelles.com and mainly theturboforums.net.
Its really eye opening to see what has been done on stock motors from the General. They dont need much work, they dont need special parts.
My 3 favorite references are my 2 friends and the guy I sold my twin T60 turbos to. My friend with trucks has done a 4.8, i think 2 5.3 builds now, and a 6.0 ls2 based project. The current 5.3 has been in the truck for 2-3 years now, many dyno pulls and track times in a full weight silverado single cab street truck, its been 11.0 at 130 mph with a 6 spd trans on 20" wheels. Made 672whp on 12 psi. Very basic stock 5.3 internals with cam and ported heads. LS2 on E85 with same heads/cam made 816whp on a mustang dyno on 11 psi. 4.8 with a single 88mm made 702whp on pump gas 23psi at 7500 rpm with same cam that all motors had ran.
My other friend drag races in many LSx events with an el camino. 1st Try Engineering. Used to have a stock 6.0, 250K miles on it with cam only and spray. Ran bottom 11's cam only, and mid 10's with a mild shot. No special engine mods, raced for few years. Then went turbo. Has gone 9.9's at 140 so far. Stock bottom end 6.0 with LS6 cam and S400 turbo. Budget as it gets.
The guy I sold my T60's to emailed me and showed the video of him running 6.0's in the 1/8 mile at 118 mph. 7500+ rpm on a stock internal 4.8L truck takeout in a 71 chevelle.
Insane. He's been beatin on that setup
You probably wont take my word for it, so do yourself the favor and look for the info. Its out there.
And guess what? Your own time is worth nothing! You dont charge yourself.... lol its not hard to fab. I've done 2 setups already that work for few thousand bucks complete. A complete twin turbo hotside with turbos/gates/flanges and intercooler for under 3500.
Its really eye opening to see what has been done on stock motors from the General. They dont need much work, they dont need special parts.
My 3 favorite references are my 2 friends and the guy I sold my twin T60 turbos to. My friend with trucks has done a 4.8, i think 2 5.3 builds now, and a 6.0 ls2 based project. The current 5.3 has been in the truck for 2-3 years now, many dyno pulls and track times in a full weight silverado single cab street truck, its been 11.0 at 130 mph with a 6 spd trans on 20" wheels. Made 672whp on 12 psi. Very basic stock 5.3 internals with cam and ported heads. LS2 on E85 with same heads/cam made 816whp on a mustang dyno on 11 psi. 4.8 with a single 88mm made 702whp on pump gas 23psi at 7500 rpm with same cam that all motors had ran.
My other friend drag races in many LSx events with an el camino. 1st Try Engineering. Used to have a stock 6.0, 250K miles on it with cam only and spray. Ran bottom 11's cam only, and mid 10's with a mild shot. No special engine mods, raced for few years. Then went turbo. Has gone 9.9's at 140 so far. Stock bottom end 6.0 with LS6 cam and S400 turbo. Budget as it gets.
The guy I sold my T60's to emailed me and showed the video of him running 6.0's in the 1/8 mile at 118 mph. 7500+ rpm on a stock internal 4.8L truck takeout in a 71 chevelle.
Insane. He's been beatin on that setup
You probably wont take my word for it, so do yourself the favor and look for the info. Its out there.
And guess what? Your own time is worth nothing! You dont charge yourself.... lol its not hard to fab. I've done 2 setups already that work for few thousand bucks complete. A complete twin turbo hotside with turbos/gates/flanges and intercooler for under 3500.
The question I have for Orr is recently I read where it was common place for these LSx engines to hydrolyzes cylinders while just cranking them over to start them bending either the connecting rod or windowing a cylinder. Not sure how valid the source is and was wondering is the is any truth to it.
#132
Re: help me pick a cam
Orr-I thought the same thing for this OP to use a LSx conversion.What kept me from posting that was a statement by the OP his lack of experience and how he doesn't like to trouble shoot swaps especially when it comes to EFI's.I thought that excluded him from a LSx.
#133
Re: help me pick a cam
None of the shops in my area have had any problems with gen iii or iv based motors as far as hydrolyzing on startup. Only ones that let go are a result of bad tuning or poor condition cores that attempt to many rpm or too much boost or spray.
Any decent maintained truck based motor will be a solid candidate for mild builds.
All this is a pointless suggestion because op is only looking for a solid 12's build on a budget. Ls based stuff could bea viable option even with a carb but he has good parts as is, just needs to freshen up the block and bottom.
Your crank and rods may be fine as is and just need overbore and new pistons. Pistons are relatively cheap
Any decent maintained truck based motor will be a solid candidate for mild builds.
All this is a pointless suggestion because op is only looking for a solid 12's build on a budget. Ls based stuff could bea viable option even with a carb but he has good parts as is, just needs to freshen up the block and bottom.
Your crank and rods may be fine as is and just need overbore and new pistons. Pistons are relatively cheap
#135
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
IM NOT USING THE DAMAGED BLOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said it more then once! im looking at a new never touch 010 block like I stated before.
#136
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
None of the shops in my area have had any problems with gen iii or iv based motors as far as hydrolyzing on startup. Only ones that let go are a result of bad tuning or poor condition cores that attempt to many rpm or too much boost or spray.
Any decent maintained truck based motor will be a solid candidate for mild builds.
All this is a pointless suggestion because op is only looking for a solid 12's build on a budget. Ls based stuff could bea viable option even with a carb but he has good parts as is, just needs to freshen up the block and bottom.
Your crank and rods may be fine as is and just need overbore and new pistons. Pistons are relatively cheap
Any decent maintained truck based motor will be a solid candidate for mild builds.
All this is a pointless suggestion because op is only looking for a solid 12's build on a budget. Ls based stuff could bea viable option even with a carb but he has good parts as is, just needs to freshen up the block and bottom.
Your crank and rods may be fine as is and just need overbore and new pistons. Pistons are relatively cheap
#137
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Car: 87 GTA
Engine: Under Construction
Axle/Gears: 3.70:1
Re: help me pick a cam
If your short shifting that much you will never get in the power band for those heads or that cam. I would try shifting manually to hold the gear longer. I think your low end problem is a loss of velocity through the intake runner with those heads a smaller intake runner, I would suggest 180cc or similar for your set up. FWIW
Last edited by badazta87; 08-23-2013 at 07:26 PM. Reason: typo
#138
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Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 377
Transmission: TH350; Circle D 4200 converter
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"
Re: help me pick a cam
If your short shifting that much you will never get in the power band for those heads or that cam. I would try shifting manually to hold the gear longer. I think your low end problem is a loss of velocity through the intake runner with those heads a smaller intake runner, I would suggest 180cc or similar for your set up. FWIW
#139
Re: help me pick a cam
That cam is so large off the seat and slow in ramps it will bleed off any useful compression for low end trq. Head size can work if airflow through them is good for the valve size and the cam is fast. But even the most aggressive lobes wont help much on 350's once duration gets up over 230 at .050, and intakes with shorter runners. It just moves torque up so far in the rpm band, much like ls1 motors and then you just end up needing lots of stall, 3800-4000+, and more gear. All a trade off
If you wanted low end, cam small, keep intake runner long and smaller cross section for high velocity for low rpm cylinder fill. 450-500 lb ft is possible
If you wanted low end, cam small, keep intake runner long and smaller cross section for high velocity for low rpm cylinder fill. 450-500 lb ft is possible
#140
Re: help me pick a cam
exactly 12 second motor.period. im not looking for the fastest motor I want to hit 12s. one more thing, im looking for 12s. I don't want to use a turbo, supercharger, a gerbil in a ball running after a naked possum. im using a 350 block with the parts I currently have, new cam, pistons, etc. ill know more with the crank one I open bottom up.
When low 12's gets boring, then out comes the gerbil in the form of a 50pill and run 11's
Its that simple.
I personally love the idea of an LS swap, what the can handle and produce in virtually stock form is incredible....but it doesn't sound like what your looking for......yet
#141
Re: help me pick a cam
None of the shops in my area have had any problems with gen iii or iv based motors as far as hydrolyzing on startup. Only ones that let go are a result of bad tuning or poor condition cores that attempt to many rpm or too much boost or spray.
Any decent maintained truck based motor will be a solid candidate for mild builds.
All this is a pointless suggestion because op is only looking for a solid 12's build on a budget. Ls based stuff could bea viable option even with a carb but he has good parts as is, just needs to freshen up the block and bottom.
Your crank and rods may be fine as is and just need overbore and new pistons. Pistons are relatively cheap
Any decent maintained truck based motor will be a solid candidate for mild builds.
All this is a pointless suggestion because op is only looking for a solid 12's build on a budget. Ls based stuff could bea viable option even with a carb but he has good parts as is, just needs to freshen up the block and bottom.
Your crank and rods may be fine as is and just need overbore and new pistons. Pistons are relatively cheap
#142
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Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 377
Transmission: TH350; Circle D 4200 converter
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"
Re: help me pick a cam
Which is why ORR and myself kept it simple right off the hop before it got all convoluted lol, summit rebuild kit, quality machining including decking the block, have the heads checked out, xe268-274, performed RPM, 650-750DP, go run your number.....no turbo, no blower, and no gerbils.
When low 12's gets boring, then out comes the gerbil in the form of a 50pill and run 11's
Its that simple.
I personally love the idea of an LS swap, what the can handle and produce in virtually stock form is incredible....but it doesn't sound like what your looking for......yet
When low 12's gets boring, then out comes the gerbil in the form of a 50pill and run 11's
Its that simple.
I personally love the idea of an LS swap, what the can handle and produce in virtually stock form is incredible....but it doesn't sound like what your looking for......yet
#143
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
im not doing a roller cam setup. its not in the budget at this moment. if it becomes avaliable then i will toss the idea around of a roller block. until then it is what it is.
#145
Re: help me pick a cam
Hey Billybob.Just alittle side bar off topic info. When I pull over and park on a thread vs just surf by one,those times are rare.I do cover a number of forums(yeah way too many) with limited time and given my age of 66 yrs old have sever carp-ale(SP??) tunnel in both hands with surgery pending.So when my suggestions are not found usefully,generally I just move on.Guess I am telling you this so you understand the effort it takes to made these posts and know why you might not see me post as much.
Last edited by 1gary; 08-25-2013 at 09:54 AM.
#147
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Car: 1984 TA - 17k orig miles
Engine: 355
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.44 Dana 44 performance rear
Re: help me pick a cam
Just watch the lift figures - they're usually with a 1.6 rocker for those cams (and thus if you run the 'stock' 1.5 rockers your lift will be less). The spec's will say which rocker arm they use to get the lift #'s they advertise.
#148
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
ill be recieving the block this week sometime or early sat morning. my dad sent it out to get hot tanked and magnafluxed, and everything looked good. just got to drive down and pick it up. i dont have block numbers off it yet as soon as i do i will post them up/;
#149
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Car: 1984 chevy camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: turbo 350 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 detroit locker posi
Re: help me pick a cam
Which is why ORR and myself kept it simple right off the hop before it got all convoluted lol, summit rebuild kit, quality machining including decking the block, have the heads checked out, xe268-274, performed RPM, 650-750DP, go run your number.....no turbo, no blower, and no gerbils.
When low 12's gets boring, then out comes the gerbil in the form of a 50pill and run 11's
Its that simple.
I personally love the idea of an LS swap, what the can handle and produce in virtually stock form is incredible....but it doesn't sound like what your looking for......yet
When low 12's gets boring, then out comes the gerbil in the form of a 50pill and run 11's
Its that simple.
I personally love the idea of an LS swap, what the can handle and produce in virtually stock form is incredible....but it doesn't sound like what your looking for......yet