powerdreams

Hey guys,
so i bought my first engine today. I bought it from a local machine shop. I payed just a little over 2gs without the carb and headers. And its going into my 87 sc this summer. I would like to know if there are any educated estimations on what kinda power it should make based on the parts used and listed below.

350 vortec
1 pc rear seal, hyd roller engine
9:1 comp
Fresh rebuild
All interanls are brand new and are OE spec
Edelbrock RPM intake
Full scirt pistons
Hi Presure oil pump
Upgraded Viton valvestem seals*
Multi angle valve job
Molly piston rings
Melling timeing kit
GM performance cam #10185071 .431/.451
Stainless roller tip 1.6 ratio rockers
HEI ignition system.
Holy 650 carb
Hooker shorty heders

All opinions/suggestions/thoughts and or advice are welcome as im still learning.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Okay, I'm confused. The p/n is the ZZ3/4 hydraulic roller cam, with .474/.510" lift with 1.5:1 rockers. Duration is 208/221 @ .050", 275/280 advertised. None of those numbers match what you stated.

Next concern is no mention of valve springs, or anything done to the heads to allow for more lift at the valve. Stock Vortec heads can only take about .440" lift, and the stock Vortec springs aren't even good for that. A ZZ4 cam will have more lift than that with 1.5:1 rockers, and you're talking 1.6:1. Typical approach is to cut the top of the valve guides to allow more valve travel and better springs, or use beehive springs.

Hope the rockers are self-aligning and the RPM intake the Vortec style.

With Vette aluminum L98 heads, a 350 with ZZ4 cam puts out 355 gross flywheel HP. GM sells a crate engine with the ZZ4 shortblock and Fast Burn heads (basically aluminum Vortecs, although a little better than stock Vortecs) that they call the "Fast Burn 385", meaning 385 HP. That's again gross flywheel HP on a dyno with no accessories powered by the engine, long tube headers, and RPM intake. With unmodified Vortec heads and shorty headers, your numbers will be somewhere between those two. Net HP will be less, of course. The no-longer-available Camaro HO 350 engine kit, with ZZ4 crate engine and its Performer-like spread bore intake, good-flowing cast iron exhaust manifolds, dual cats, 3" cat-back, computer q-jet with custom chip, supposedly put out 308 net flywheel HP (compared to 190 for the L69, and 245 for the best f-body L98).

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What is the casting # of the heads?

What is the piston part #?

As five7 mentioned, the cam specs you gave, don't match the cam part # you gave. Some clarification is in order somewhere along the line.

The valve spring question he brought up is IMPORTANT. You absolutely WILL experience parts breakage if there's a mismatch there. Get the full details.

powerdreams

Thanks guys^^ I'm defiantly going to call him about this on Monday when he is open again.

I picked up the engine today (ajax racing engines) and the guy was awsome. He builds some serious motors for some serious drag cars, been in buisness 23 years, a fully equipped machine shop. He gave me a full tour of the facility, a CD with videos of my engine at diffrent stages of assembly and on the break in stand. And a 1 year 20k warranty. (That starts when I call him and tell him I have installed it)

Having said all that I am under the impression/assumption that he has a but ton of experience and may have just been mistakin or mixed up on the cam specs he gave me. as i dont see him being the type of guy out to knowingly make false claims or screw people. However, I could b wrong. Only time will tell.

When i do speak with him i will post his explination.

The head casting number is 10239906 and not sure of piston part number.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

906 is Vortec heads; a good start, at least.

As far as the cam, it's not so much a question of "screw", as it is, just knowing for sure what you're getting, so you know what to expect.

powerdreams

UPDATE!!

So I spoke to the engine builder and all is good.
I do have the zz4 cam. (I posted the wrong specs)
He did "top cut" the guides
He installed the beehive springs
And I'm good to .550 lift
And the 1.6 roller rockers are self aligning.

I am very much relieved.
after reading everyone's response I was freaking out that I was gonna end up with a paperweight of an engine.

Thanks guys.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Better safe than sorry. Glad to hear it was done right.

powerdreams

Thanks five7kid, but not sure it was..

Out of the blue the engine builder emailed me all apologetic and informed me that the cam specs he gave me originally were in fact correct ( .431/.451 ) and the GM cam part#10185071 (zz4) was wrong.
According to him what I do have is GM Cam #14097395 (HT 383/ramjet350)

With that cam, 1.6:1 roller tip rockers he says the numbers are .459int and .502ext* on the 109 cl.
( corrected value with the 1.6 rockers ) and I'm good to .550 lift.
He also said the 1.6 ratio will have taken all the safety cusion out of factor and that coilbind is now to a minimum . But still within parameters.

Having said that.. I tryed to find some info on a vortec 350 with that cam and cant really find much.

So could those who run this set up or can make sense of it please leave your opinions/thoughts/suggestions good or bad. Keeping in mind i am still very much learning about all this and trying to learn for myself via search and research but all these ratios and different numbers are proving to be rather confusing.

Cheers
Thanks again

powerdreams

Really..nobody?

Gsoleski

I'm sure your builder knows about this already, but one thing I noticed is that there is a high pressure oil pump. When I was researching and building my vortec 350 I found out you need a melonized distributor gear for roller cams otherwise the cam will eat the gear and the hi pressure oil pumps put even more stress on it. Maybe someone else can chime in about this but just something to check.

powerdreams

He did mention that there is a melonized gear.

So after a bit of research and video watching I have come to the conclusion that the cam I have is probably not going to achieve the sound I desire out of a v8. I would like to have a lumpy or lopey idle. But don't really wanna remove my heads and make the necessary changes to allow for more lift. Is there a cam I can use to achieve the sound I desire? And again, I don't really know how to 'read' and make sence cam specs.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

With the springs you have and all that, shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I'd be more concerned about, that you still don't seem to know what pistons are in it, how far "down in the hole" they are at TDC, and other critical factors that allow you to make a REALISTIC estimate of the engine's compression ratio. That's one of the most important factors in cam selection, right behind "intended usage" and "expected RPM range". (neither of which we have seen yet either although given the silence, we can guess, and probably won't miss by much)

About the worst mistake you can make is to buy a cam for the "sound", if you plan on driving the car. If all you're going to do with it is crank it up occasionally in parking lots on pretty days in the summer during "sq in of chrome" contests to impress 8-yr-old kids, then yeah, that'd be the way to pick a cam; but for the rest of us, we choose cams based on RESULTS. The "sound" is a side effect that we mostly try to minimize, since it is a symptom of poor low-speed running characteristics in general.

You might in fact want to consider just picking up a pull-out ZZ4 cam off of ebay or wherever, if this is yerbasic driver and not a race car, as would seem to be the case.