305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
03-01-2013, 03:50 AM
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Car: 1984 Chevy Camaro
Engine: 305ci V8 4bbl
305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
Hopefully I won't be mocked for my lack of knowledge, but I have come up against a wall with finding info. I'm currently in the process of buying parts for the infamous "hate me" build and my dad pointed out today that I should be concerned with the smog police. I brushed him off, assuming I had thought of that fact months ago when I started planning this project. I re-read the article and realized I had missed the fact they didn't cover smog at all. The article is here
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...s/viewall.html
For quick reference, I have a 1984 Sport Camaro 305 and am replacing the following parts:
1) Heads - 180cc intake runner EngineQuest (EQ) Vortec Castings - 1.94/1.50" valves (Milled to 0.030 inch to reduce chamber volume to 60cc)
2)COMP No. 26918 BeeHive Spring Package (For Valves)
2) Cam - COMP XE268H Flat-Tappet Hydraulic (6,000-plus rpm - Duration 224/230 degrees)
3) Lifters
4) Manifold - Edelbrock Performer RPM AirGap
5) Carb - 650cfm Speed Demon Carb
My question is...am I an idiot and screwing myself into a non smog legal hot rod? If so, I can't find anything on the interwebs to make it legal? Or am I just going to have to swap out my carb and possibly my heads every two years for the test? Please be gentle... I appreciate any and all advice!!
-Concerned Camaro Lover
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...s/viewall.html
For quick reference, I have a 1984 Sport Camaro 305 and am replacing the following parts:
1) Heads - 180cc intake runner EngineQuest (EQ) Vortec Castings - 1.94/1.50" valves (Milled to 0.030 inch to reduce chamber volume to 60cc)
2)COMP No. 26918 BeeHive Spring Package (For Valves)
2) Cam - COMP XE268H Flat-Tappet Hydraulic (6,000-plus rpm - Duration 224/230 degrees)
3) Lifters
4) Manifold - Edelbrock Performer RPM AirGap
5) Carb - 650cfm Speed Demon Carb
My question is...am I an idiot and screwing myself into a non smog legal hot rod? If so, I can't find anything on the interwebs to make it legal? Or am I just going to have to swap out my carb and possibly my heads every two years for the test? Please be gentle... I appreciate any and all advice!!
-Concerned Camaro Lover
03-01-2013, 09:32 AM
#3
Re: 305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
As you are in California, you MUST keep, your smog pump, your AIR tubes, your EGR, and your cats IN their factory location. This includes keeping the factory CC Qjet along with ALL the electronics. Nothing else is legal and you will not pass the visual check without these things.
With that in mind, you must then pass the sniffer test. So even if you do pass the visual, if your engine is too radical, it won't pass the sniffer test.
With that in mind, you must then pass the sniffer test. So even if you do pass the visual, if your engine is too radical, it won't pass the sniffer test.
03-01-2013, 09:39 AM
#4
Re: 305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
World performance sells 305 SR Torquer heads which are 50 state legal and have a good upgrade over factory. Dyno Don and Hooker sell 50-state emissions legal headers. You can upgrade your cam, I'm not a "cam" guy, so I wouldn't know where to start there.
It might even be possible to swap in a mild 350 to get the performance numbers your looking for (300ish hp), and still pass emissions as long as you have all the SMOG stuff in place. Not sure if they check the numbers on the block, but a 350 looks identicle to a 305 unless you dig.
It might even be possible to swap in a mild 350 to get the performance numbers your looking for (300ish hp), and still pass emissions as long as you have all the SMOG stuff in place. Not sure if they check the numbers on the block, but a 350 looks identicle to a 305 unless you dig.
03-01-2013, 10:12 AM
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Re: 305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
Dpmt think the smog tech would see the heads with all the stuff bolted on there would like to see someone use the EQ heads hear they are good.
That cam/intake no way youll ever pass, imo too big for a 305 anyway
Put a 50 state legal intake on there with egr and a cam that will pass sniff/visual.
That cam/intake no way youll ever pass, imo too big for a 305 anyway
Put a 50 state legal intake on there with egr and a cam that will pass sniff/visual.
03-01-2013, 10:33 AM
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Re: 305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
If you are doing you research and asking the right questions the idiots are the ones that are mocking you.
whats your budget and whats your goal hp wise
whats your budget and whats your goal hp wise
03-01-2013, 11:03 AM
#7
Re: 305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
Dpmt think the smog tech would see the heads with all the stuff bolted on there would like to see someone use the EQ heads hear they are good.
That cam/intake no way youll ever pass, imo too big for a 305 anyway
Put a 50 state legal intake on there with egr and a cam that will pass sniff/visual.
That cam/intake no way youll ever pass, imo too big for a 305 anyway
Put a 50 state legal intake on there with egr and a cam that will pass sniff/visual.
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03-01-2013, 06:09 PM
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Re: 305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
Wow! I didn't expect such a quick response! Thanks everyone, I appreciate it! I'm new to forums (somewhat) so I'll try to address each of the comments with "quotes". As a side note, I may have a bead on something where I won't have to smog. My wife's friends say they register their car up in Valley Springs at their parents house and now don't have to smog check unless they purchase a car. They are asking to see if I can register my car there too. If so, I can change the address now, smog it while all the original parts are in and then start my build. If this is actually true...hell, I don't know what I'd do...throw a party or something.
Thanks for the info... I'm assuming those parts are too radical for any type of inspection. As a note...I hate how California has made itself known for classic cars and "hotrodding" and at the same time known for keeping people from doing just that.
Is that C.A.R.B. inspection the only thing that makes heads "legal" vs illegal? I will definitely look into the emission legal headers. I've spent countless hours going over all the variables for which headers to buy. Between the smog thing, reviews, price...there are so many factors to involve that it narrows which parts I can actually buy for what I'm looking for. I inevitably have to compromise something. The "Hate Me" build promises roughly 370HP without the engine swap. I initially was planning on buying a 350, but figured I had a perfectly good 60,000 mile "Barn Car" 305 which was well maintained. I wanted to work with what I had. From what I've read, basic smog test places don't check anything other than the VIN and smell the pipe and a "STAR" check does the whole kitten kaboodle. I may be wrong, but that's what I was to understand.
I was wondering if they would sift through all the tubes and stuff to check the heads/block myself...I didn't see why they would for a $30-50 inspection. Well, I'm stuck with the cam since it will be here Tuesday...unless I sell it. Is there a good, possibly comparable, intake that I can buy with the EGR?
Thanks, lunati397! I'm trying to do as much research as possible. Buying the parts after 8 months was me being impatient and thinking I had it down. I'm looking anywhere from 350-400HP (realistically and unrealistically). I know it might not be possible with all the smog crap, but reading that "hate me" build got me watered up for that kind of HP. It's like seeing two toys you really want, but the first toy you saw was the best one...but you can't have it. That's all I can think about now.
As you are in California, you MUST keep, your smog pump, your AIR tubes, your EGR, and your cats IN their factory location. This includes keeping the factory CC Qjet along with ALL the electronics. Nothing else is legal and you will not pass the visual check without these things.
With that in mind, you must then pass the sniffer test. So even if you do pass the visual, if your engine is too radical, it won't pass the sniffer test.
With that in mind, you must then pass the sniffer test. So even if you do pass the visual, if your engine is too radical, it won't pass the sniffer test.
World performance sells 305 SR Torquer heads which are 50 state legal and have a good upgrade over factory. Dyno Don and Hooker sell 50-state emissions legal headers. You can upgrade your cam, I'm not a "cam" guy, so I wouldn't know where to start there.
It might even be possible to swap in a mild 350 to get the performance numbers your looking for (300ish hp), and still pass emissions as long as you have all the SMOG stuff in place. Not sure if they check the numbers on the block, but a 350 looks identicle to a 305 unless you dig.
It might even be possible to swap in a mild 350 to get the performance numbers your looking for (300ish hp), and still pass emissions as long as you have all the SMOG stuff in place. Not sure if they check the numbers on the block, but a 350 looks identicle to a 305 unless you dig.
Dpmt think the smog tech would see the heads with all the stuff bolted on there would like to see someone use the EQ heads hear they are good.
That cam/intake no way youll ever pass, imo too big for a 305 anyway
Put a 50 state legal intake on there with egr and a cam that will pass sniff/visual.
That cam/intake no way youll ever pass, imo too big for a 305 anyway
Put a 50 state legal intake on there with egr and a cam that will pass sniff/visual.
Thanks, lunati397! I'm trying to do as much research as possible. Buying the parts after 8 months was me being impatient and thinking I had it down. I'm looking anywhere from 350-400HP (realistically and unrealistically). I know it might not be possible with all the smog crap, but reading that "hate me" build got me watered up for that kind of HP. It's like seeing two toys you really want, but the first toy you saw was the best one...but you can't have it. That's all I can think about now.
03-01-2013, 09:11 PM
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Re: 305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
The non star stations will check for everything, or should
Think your car has to be smogged withing 30 mi of youre mailing address that DMV has so get that one on your license....maybe you keep 2 residences due to your "work"
Usually pretty conservative with NOT trying to get parts past the smog guy but unless EQ has some large badging on the side that may catch his eye I doubt hed notice. Usually brand is on the front pad and covered by accessories being iron I dont think theyd go looking.
Think your car has to be smogged withing 30 mi of youre mailing address that DMV has so get that one on your license....maybe you keep 2 residences due to your "work"
Usually pretty conservative with NOT trying to get parts past the smog guy but unless EQ has some large badging on the side that may catch his eye I doubt hed notice. Usually brand is on the front pad and covered by accessories being iron I dont think theyd go looking.
03-01-2013, 09:31 PM
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Re: 305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
Personally I think the 350 swap was the best bet as far as passing smog in CA. and gaining some hp/torque. Then focus on you rear end. A gear swap and posi. would give you a "huge" improvement over what you have know. I did with my little 305, putting in the 3.42s and Eaton Posi. .It feels like a totally different car. A 350 with that rear would totally surprise you.
03-02-2013, 01:23 AM
#11
Re: 305 "Hate Me" build street legal?
In Cali, the C.A.R.B. is the only thing that make any aftermarket stuff legal.
For a 305, heads, headers a 3" catback and rear-gears will give you the biggest "in your seat" feeling and should be good for 50-75hp. Add a decent mild cam and it's 75-100hp.
Even if you get past the visual inspection, it's the sniffer.
That's why I think the 350 might be your best option in the long run. It's visually idential unless they check casting numbers and with a mild build, you can still get 300hp or close to it and you should be able to pass smog. Since you need to pull the motor anyway for the cam swap its worth considering. Anyway, I remember reading posts on it here on the site where people did that.
Chevy High Performance did a 305 build and got 300hp (at the crank) out of a 305 and built the crap out of it to get that. I think 370hp would make a 305 not much fun as a daily...don't forget you will want an aftermarket Torque converter and better street gears (3.42 or 3.73) to go with that big build your after.
I'm all for you going after what you want, but doing it within the strict confines of Cali's crazy laws is going to be difficult.
For a 305, heads, headers a 3" catback and rear-gears will give you the biggest "in your seat" feeling and should be good for 50-75hp. Add a decent mild cam and it's 75-100hp.
Even if you get past the visual inspection, it's the sniffer.
That's why I think the 350 might be your best option in the long run. It's visually idential unless they check casting numbers and with a mild build, you can still get 300hp or close to it and you should be able to pass smog. Since you need to pull the motor anyway for the cam swap its worth considering. Anyway, I remember reading posts on it here on the site where people did that.
Chevy High Performance did a 305 build and got 300hp (at the crank) out of a 305 and built the crap out of it to get that. I think 370hp would make a 305 not much fun as a daily...don't forget you will want an aftermarket Torque converter and better street gears (3.42 or 3.73) to go with that big build your after.
I'm all for you going after what you want, but doing it within the strict confines of Cali's crazy laws is going to be difficult.
Wow! I didn't expect such a quick response! Thanks everyone, I appreciate it! I'm new to forums (somewhat) so I'll try to address each of the comments with "quotes". As a side note, I may have a bead on something where I won't have to smog. My wife's friends say they register their car up in Valley Springs at their parents house and now don't have to smog check unless they purchase a car. They are asking to see if I can register my car there too. If so, I can change the address now, smog it while all the original parts are in and then start my build. If this is actually true...hell, I don't know what I'd do...throw a party or something.
Thanks for the info... I'm assuming those parts are too radical for any type of inspection. As a note...I hate how California has made itself known for classic cars and "hotrodding" and at the same time known for keeping people from doing just that.
Is that C.A.R.B. inspection the only thing that makes heads "legal" vs illegal? I will definitely look into the emission legal headers. I've spent countless hours going over all the variables for which headers to buy. Between the smog thing, reviews, price...there are so many factors to involve that it narrows which parts I can actually buy for what I'm looking for. I inevitably have to compromise something. The "Hate Me" build promises roughly 370HP without the engine swap. I initially was planning on buying a 350, but figured I had a perfectly good 60,000 mile "Barn Car" 305 which was well maintained. I wanted to work with what I had. From what I've read, basic smog test places don't check anything other than the VIN and smell the pipe and a "STAR" check does the whole kitten kaboodle. I may be wrong, but that's what I was to understand.
I was wondering if they would sift through all the tubes and stuff to check the heads/block myself...I didn't see why they would for a $30-50 inspection. Well, I'm stuck with the cam since it will be here Tuesday...unless I sell it. Is there a good, possibly comparable, intake that I can buy with the EGR?
Thanks, lunati397! I'm trying to do as much research as possible. Buying the parts after 8 months was me being impatient and thinking I had it down. I'm looking anywhere from 350-400HP (realistically and unrealistically). I know it might not be possible with all the smog crap, but reading that "hate me" build got me watered up for that kind of HP. It's like seeing two toys you really want, but the first toy you saw was the best one...but you can't have it. That's all I can think about now.
Thanks for the info... I'm assuming those parts are too radical for any type of inspection. As a note...I hate how California has made itself known for classic cars and "hotrodding" and at the same time known for keeping people from doing just that.
Is that C.A.R.B. inspection the only thing that makes heads "legal" vs illegal? I will definitely look into the emission legal headers. I've spent countless hours going over all the variables for which headers to buy. Between the smog thing, reviews, price...there are so many factors to involve that it narrows which parts I can actually buy for what I'm looking for. I inevitably have to compromise something. The "Hate Me" build promises roughly 370HP without the engine swap. I initially was planning on buying a 350, but figured I had a perfectly good 60,000 mile "Barn Car" 305 which was well maintained. I wanted to work with what I had. From what I've read, basic smog test places don't check anything other than the VIN and smell the pipe and a "STAR" check does the whole kitten kaboodle. I may be wrong, but that's what I was to understand.
I was wondering if they would sift through all the tubes and stuff to check the heads/block myself...I didn't see why they would for a $30-50 inspection. Well, I'm stuck with the cam since it will be here Tuesday...unless I sell it. Is there a good, possibly comparable, intake that I can buy with the EGR?
Thanks, lunati397! I'm trying to do as much research as possible. Buying the parts after 8 months was me being impatient and thinking I had it down. I'm looking anywhere from 350-400HP (realistically and unrealistically). I know it might not be possible with all the smog crap, but reading that "hate me" build got me watered up for that kind of HP. It's like seeing two toys you really want, but the first toy you saw was the best one...but you can't have it. That's all I can think about now.
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