Juve88GTA

I found the TDC using a piston stop that I made and it was off by a few degrees. Today I bought a mechanics stethoscope and had my girlfriend crank the car while y listened to the injectors and I did hear a tic, and also when she turned off the ignition they sound like they're flushing, kinda like the sound that the fuel pump makes when it's priming, I don't know if it's normal or something else is making that sound. About the vacuum lines… I'm lost there, I'm not sure if they're correct I tried to follow the schematic but I doesn't make sense to me, I think there is more hoses in the car than it shows in the schematic.

Juve88GTA

I need to thank everybody that is trying to help me with this nightmare.
Here's a little history of the bird and I. After looking for a few months for a GTA locally with no success I decided to try my chances in California and that's where I found her. I bought the car from the original owner, the car looked perfect and it ran good but I guess looks are deceiving, during the trip back to Arizona, about half way the car overheated and it had to be towed the rest of the way, once here I replaced the water pump, hoses and flushed the radiator but it turned out the head gaskets where blown, so I took the car to a shop that a friend recommended, after the "mechanic" replaced the gaskets the car wouldn't start and it hasn't ever since, at first it wouldn't even crank because there was a vats issue but it was solved but still nothing. The car was in the shop for 8 months, I decided to bring it home because the "mechanic" couldn't do anything more. It's been over a month since I had the car in my garage and started to ask all of you nice people for your help, I'm not a mechanic, thats very clear, I've never work on cars other than mine, I have passion for cars especially Fbodies this is my 4th one and it turned out to be a nightmare and a money pit but I'm not giving up I will see this car running again!
I count with your expertise to enlighten me.
Thank You!

bwiencek

You neglected to say that - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the "mechanic" screwed something up in the re-assembly of the engine. Two things stick out that could cause the issues you're getting:

First (and probably the most likely) - too much preload on the lifters. It will cause the valves to hang open slightly and it may seem like it wants to start but won't ever really run because it can't build and hold good compression. Pull the valvecovers and re-check - or if you're not sure how to properly set preload - just loosen them all up at least one full turn and see if it'll start and run - it may have valvetrain clatter but if it starts and runs you'll know that was the issue. Optionally if you have a compression tester you can check for low compression.

The next thing that came to mind is mis-wired injectors (L/R side swapped) or massive vacuum leaks on the intake side of things - if you followed my instructions and manually fed it fuel then it should have run with either of these problems.

Given the history - I'd start by checking the compression and/or valve lash. I'm thinking the 'mechanic' may have tightened the rocker down until the lifter was bottomed in it's travel and then added another 1/2-3/4 turn hanging the valve open - I've seen it a LOT with inexpierenced mechanics mis-reading the instructions on how to set them by feel (spin pushrod until drag then add preload - they go until the pushrod can't be turned and then add the preload)

Juve88GTA

Man that sounds like a lot of work and complicated. I've never done anything like this, but I'll start by checking the compression…
One more thing just to be sure, what is the exact preload?

W.E.G.

Turn the rocker arm adjustment nut until tension is felt on the pushrod, then:

• 1.0 additional turn if a V8 motor
• 1.5 additional if a V6.

.
.
.

W.E.G.

...Or the whole schmear:

1. Install push rods. Be sure push rods seat in lifter
socket.
2. Install rocker arms, rocker arm ***** and rocker
arm nuts. Tighten rocker arm nuts until all lash
is eliminated.
3. Adjust valves when lifter is on base circle of
camshaft lobe as follows:
a. Crank engine until mark on torsional
damper lines up with center or "0" mark on
the timing tab fastened to the crankcase
front cover and the engine is in the # 1
firing position. This may be determined by
placing fingers on the # 1 valve as the mark
on the damper comes near the "0" mark on
the crankcase front cover. If the valves are
not moving. the engine is in the # 1 firing
position. If the valves move as the mark
comes up to the timing tab, the engine is in
#6 firing position and should be turned
over one more time to reach the #1
position.
b. With the engine in the #1 firing position as
just determined, the following valves may be
adjusted:
• Exhaust--1, 3, 4, 8
• Intake--1, 2, 5, 7
c. Back out adjusting nut until lash is felt at
the push rod then turn in adjusting nul until
all lash as removed. This can be determined
by rotating push rod while turning adjusting
nut. When play has been
removed, turn adjusting nut 1 ± 1/4 in
additional turn (to center lifter plunger).
d. Crank the engine one revolution until the
pointer "0" mark and torsional damper
mark are again in alignment. This is #6
firing position. With the engine in this
position the following valves may be
adjusted.
• Exhaust--2, S, 6, 7
• Intake--3, 4, 6, 8
4. Install rocker arm covers..
5. Start engine and adjust carburetor idle speed, if
needed.

bwiencek

And "C" above is where things go bad.

Using the rotating pushrod method there are 2 'spots' - the first is where the lash just gets taken up (Lash is the up/down movement or 'space' in the valvetrain in case you didn't know) This first 'spot' is where the pushrod JUST starts to drag a little bit and a little resistance is felt when rotating. The next 'spot' is when the plunger on the lifter bottoms out and the valve spring starts compressing and then a 'large' drag is felt. That's too far but where I've seen a lot of guys think they're at 0 lash since the drag just got real stiff. They then turn the adjuster nut an additional 1-1.25 turns and all that does is force the valve off the seat since the plunger is already bottomed out.

With components that have 100k miles of running and 'polishing' of the mating surfaces on them the initial drag can be very slight and hard to tell the difference if you're expecting a LOT of drag. Just remember that the plunger only has a few LBS of tension on it (it's mostly hydraulic as the engine runs) and the valve spring has ~80-110 lbs of tension on it at rest.

Juve88GTA

I did a compression test on all cylinders today:
1. 120 2. 145
3. 115 4. 70
5. 125 6. 90
7. 115 8. 100
And only one of them held compression, looks like I do need a valve adjustment.
Can anybody tell me what is the normal compression?

thewhitestripes

I'm not sure what the correct compression is but mine runs fine and the cylinders are sitting around 150. I also remember reading somewhere that a 20 psi difference between any two cylinders will cause it to run really rough. When I rebuilt my motor I set my first valve train like this and it worked perfectly and I didn't have to adjust any of them. Just losen the roller rocker up and slowly retighten it as you spin the rod under the rocker back and forth with your two fingers from your free hand. Once it becomes slightly harder to spin it, let it go and turn the wrench on full turn. Repeat seven more times. Worked perfectly for me! Hope it works for you too.

Juve88GTA

Now I know all there is to know to get the job done. Wish me luck!
I will post results in a couple of days.

Juve88GTA

Today was a sad day.

After I finish the valve adjustment I did a compression test on all cylinders, #2 showed 80psi, the rest were between 135-140psi. I readjusted the valves on cylinder #2 tested the compression to make sure, and I got the same result. That could only mean 2 things, piston rings or damaged valves right? but according to the "mechanic" there where a couple bent valves and they were replaced.
I'll be putting everything back together to se if it starts… This could be the end of the road.

jas2730

iTrader: (7)

Hardly the end of the road imo. If it turns out to be serious enough to justify a complete tear down that's the perfect excuse to put together a bad*** sbc. Just take your time and inform yourself and you'll be surprised at what you can accomplish.

Juve88GTA

You're right it's a good excuse to build a beast but thats beyond my budget right now it'll have to wait…

bwiencek

I wouldn't consider it a complete loss yet - if it's just a single hole that's low I'd get it running as with 80 PSI it'll be a little weak in that cylinder but the other 7 being above 135-140 sound plenty healthy enough. It may be something as simple as some carbon on the valve face from the valves hanging open or the rings in that cylinder are either stuck or got washed down with fuel - in any of those cases simply running the engine and possibly using an engine flush/top end cleaners could free that cylinder up and it'll bring back the compression.

Juve88GTA

Well, the car is back together and it won't start. Same symptoms it had before I adjusted the valves. The battery died so I'll keep trying tomorrow…

Juve88GTA

Biggest progress.
The car started today and it ran for about 15 seconds, it ran pretty rough before it died but thats a huge a break through, exciting!
I'm going to get a timing light right now.

jas2730

iTrader: (7)

Keep after it. Keep us updated on your progress.

Juve88GTA

Well I got a timing light but it's really hard to set an initial timing when the car won't stay on. I figure the car will only start when I spray gas in the intake… Somehow it.s not getting gas. Can you guys help me how to figure this out.

jas2730

iTrader: (7)

Have you confirmed that you are getting fuel to the rails via the schrader valve?

Juve88GTA

Yes I have and also checked the injectors and connectors. I used a test light to check for pulsation in the connectors and checked the injectors themselves with an ohm meter, they are all at .018, I also used a mechanics stethoscope to hear them tic and they do.

Juve88GTA

To those of you wondering if I fixed my car yet, no.
But, good news everyone! I found the problem, clogged injectors!
I didn't wanna do this before because is a pain… But I had to check the injectors themselves, I knew that they where working cause I could hear them tic and after I took them out of the intake I found that only one of them was barely spraying.
I will be getting new injectors from www.southbayfuelinjectors, I heard good stuff from them. I'll keep you posted.

jas2730

iTrader: (7)

7 out of 8 injectors plugging up at once? Something doesn't seem right about that. If they are plugged i'd say your entire fuel system needs to be gone through and cleaned up.

Juve88GTA

The car was parked for 6 months…
Any tips on how to clean the fuel system?

Juve88GTA

The car starts now, it idles poorly @ 300rpm. I checked for vacuum leaks, messed with timing but doesn't improve idling. Any thing else I should check for?

Juve88GTA

Biggest progress but not there yet.

Juve88GTA

I'm about to give up.
I got the injectors today and after I install them still won't start. Same symptoms, messed around with the time again but nothing… Man, this really sucks! And to make things worse, the starter got stuck spinning… I think this car never liked me.

saldav420

What do u mean it doesn't start? It's on

jas2730

iTrader: (7)

Kinda expected new injectors wouldn't be your savior. 7 injectors going bad at once doesn't happen.

saldav420

Did u check for a cloged cat?

Juve88GTA

I don't know how it started before and I haven't been able to star it again. A clogged cat will keep it from starting? Also any tips on how to fix the starter?

jas2730

iTrader: (7)

I assume you disconnected the battery to stop the starter. If so reconnect it and see if it's still doing it. I've seen it happen before and after hooking the battery back up it was fine.

saldav420

A cloged cat could keep it from staying on. Exhaust has to be able to escape. Check the starter solenoid.

Juve88GTA

New solenoid fix the starter issue, sawed off the cat and still no idle, it sounds pretty cool though.

jas2730

iTrader: (7)

I feel for ya. I wish I could do more to help. I will say, stop chasing these maybe it's this and maybe it's that solutions. Stick to the simple things. Ignition, fuel and timing. I'm dealing with issues myself after my engine swap but I'm not going out and cut my exhaust off. Lol

Juve88GTA

I don't have other options, I have to try everything.
(New cap and rotor, battery, spark plugs, wires, inanition coil, fuel pump, fuel injectors, good compression in 7 cylinders one has 90psi. All of that works, I got it to start, now it won't).

jas2730

iTrader: (7)

When you had it in the shop did the remove the timing chain?

Juve88GTA

No he did not, he only removed the top part.

Juve88GTA

Hey guys!
Is it possible that the car won't start because the injectors are spraying to much fuel?
I pulled out a plug and it was very wet, and how can I fix this? I'm not getting a code for the MAF but I can't trust that it works, it looks damaged. Also I read a thread here, a car with a similar problem had a grounded wire that was causing the injectors to fire at full when cranking. Anyone knows anything about that?

Juve88GTA

Great news everyone!
She runs. I came home today to replace the temperature sensor, reattached the cat, unplugged the MAF, I hooked up the battery and gave it a whirl… It started right up, like a champ. I still have to fix a few trouble codes (23,33,36,42…)

Johngypsy

I haven't seen this entire thread,,,,
But 1988 does not have the vats sys, it was made for all the 1989 threw 1992 3rd gens,