GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
#1
GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Hello Everyone,
It is my pleasure to introduce a new GM High-Tech Performance project car. This '87 Formula 350 was purchased with less than 100k miles, and has been garage-kept its entire life by a single owner (and it shows). We got a great deal on it due to the fact that there is considerable rod knock. The first step will be to rebuild the motor and add some aftermarket parts to substantially improve upon the L98's 225hp factory rating. All parts are on order for the build, so hopefully we can make the April or May issue with the first installment. In the mean time, we will do our best to update you.
Thanks,
Scott
It is my pleasure to introduce a new GM High-Tech Performance project car. This '87 Formula 350 was purchased with less than 100k miles, and has been garage-kept its entire life by a single owner (and it shows). We got a great deal on it due to the fact that there is considerable rod knock. The first step will be to rebuild the motor and add some aftermarket parts to substantially improve upon the L98's 225hp factory rating. All parts are on order for the build, so hopefully we can make the April or May issue with the first installment. In the mean time, we will do our best to update you.
Thanks,
Scott
#2
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Car: 88 Formula 350
Engine: 5.7
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.89
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Here for the build! Love Formula's!
According to Car Craft... White Firebirds are a chicks car. I beg to differ!
According to Car Craft... White Firebirds are a chicks car. I beg to differ!
#3
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Well, well, well... I'll be checking this out.
What are you going to do with the car?? driver, 1/4 mile, roadcourse or all of them??
All eyes will be on you guys to do the 3rdgens proud.. Good luck!
What are you going to do with the car?? driver, 1/4 mile, roadcourse or all of them??
All eyes will be on you guys to do the 3rdgens proud.. Good luck!
Last edited by TTOP350; 10-19-2012 at 02:45 PM.
#4
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Thats great! I hope you do keep the car with the TPI system.
I know the LS-motors are very popular but there are a lot of us who still have and love our TPI motors. Would be nice to see a magazine test and publish many of the upgrades that myself and others and this website have done to their TPI powered cars.
And put some real money behind the TPI based project as well. There are a lot of high dollar LS-motor projects in many magazines these days.
I know the LS-motors are very popular but there are a lot of us who still have and love our TPI motors. Would be nice to see a magazine test and publish many of the upgrades that myself and others and this website have done to their TPI powered cars.
And put some real money behind the TPI based project as well. There are a lot of high dollar LS-motor projects in many magazines these days.
#5
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
What are you going to do with the car?? driver, 1/4 mile, roadcourse or all of them??
#6
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Id love to see the chassis maxed out and see what it can pull. I have an 80s hot rod mag where they did simple mods to irocs and were pulling g's above what some of the new cars do now. I had a 2000 ss and I swear the 88 iroc I had given equal power could give it a serious run for the money in the handling dept. I look forward to seeing this go past just a general upgrade.
#7
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Thirdgens were the best handling F-bodies that have ever been produced period. Even by todays standards thirdgens can more than hold their own in the handling department.
The 1985 IROC was rated at 0.92g's on the skidpad - that was almost 30 years ago with out todays wider, sticker tires and computerized suspesion aids. This was all in 100% factory stock form too. Once you start tossing in suspension mods on to a thirdgen you really do have a car that can easily keep up and beat many of todays cars that are stars in the handling department.
I would really like to to see a long tube runner TPI system that has been fully modified and has a super or turbo charger on it. You would be able to take on and beat many LS-motor cars and surprise a lot of people.
I know the 1992 Firebird that you guys had in the magazine a couple of years back would really suprise a lot of people. Check out the link below.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...d_formula_350/
The 1985 IROC was rated at 0.92g's on the skidpad - that was almost 30 years ago with out todays wider, sticker tires and computerized suspesion aids. This was all in 100% factory stock form too. Once you start tossing in suspension mods on to a thirdgen you really do have a car that can easily keep up and beat many of todays cars that are stars in the handling department.
I would really like to to see a long tube runner TPI system that has been fully modified and has a super or turbo charger on it. You would be able to take on and beat many LS-motor cars and surprise a lot of people.
I know the 1992 Firebird that you guys had in the magazine a couple of years back would really suprise a lot of people. Check out the link below.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...d_formula_350/
Id love to see the chassis maxed out and see what it can pull. I have an 80s hot rod mag where they did simple mods to irocs and were pulling g's above what some of the new cars do now. I had a 2000 ss and I swear the 88 iroc I had given equal power could give it a serious run for the money in the handling dept. I look forward to seeing this go past just a general upgrade.
Last edited by yaj15; 10-19-2012 at 03:12 PM.
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#8
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Good deal, Start with the "free" type mods to show what can be done, then beat on SLP a bit to try and get them to build some of the old parts again..
#9
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
An 87, eh? Seems like my whole life I've worked on 86 and 87 Firebirds. A handfull of the later 3rd gens but kazillions of 86s and 87s for some reason. Weird accessory belt system (shared with no 3rd gens before or after) and the laughable air intake system that I refer to simply as "the boxes and elbows system". Oh, and don't forget the factory exhaust "Y-pipe" that is in reality more of a "T-pipe."
The factory left a TON on the table with those cars. Just fix a few "not so well thought out" areas and they go pretty good. Really modifiable beyond that level, too. Plenty of aftermarket support (maybe not as much as for Mustangs, but still plenty) and, of course, decades of small block interchangability working in your favor.
My favorite reason to own a 3rd gen as opposed to a 4th gen..... it's REALLY helpful to have a hood you can open and access the ENTIRE engine bay, just like an old mscle car. Counts for a lot with us home-gamers who have limited garages.
Love the "house of ill repute red" interior, too!!
The factory left a TON on the table with those cars. Just fix a few "not so well thought out" areas and they go pretty good. Really modifiable beyond that level, too. Plenty of aftermarket support (maybe not as much as for Mustangs, but still plenty) and, of course, decades of small block interchangability working in your favor.
My favorite reason to own a 3rd gen as opposed to a 4th gen..... it's REALLY helpful to have a hood you can open and access the ENTIRE engine bay, just like an old mscle car. Counts for a lot with us home-gamers who have limited garages.
Love the "house of ill repute red" interior, too!!
#11
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
An 87, eh? Seems like my whole life I've worked on 86 and 87 Firebirds. A handfull of the later 3rd gens but kazillions of 86s and 87s for some reason. Weird accessory belt system (shared with no 3rd gens before or after) and the laughable air intake system that I refer to simply as "the boxes and elbows system". Oh, and don't forget the factory exhaust "Y-pipe" that is in reality more of a "T-pipe."
The factory left a TON on the table with those cars. Just fix a few "not so well thought out" areas and they go pretty good. Really modifiable beyond that level, too. Plenty of aftermarket support (maybe not as much as for Mustangs, but still plenty) and, of course, decades of small block interchangability working in your favor.
"The 302 cid, or 5.0 liter, high output motor powering the Mustang GT is a cornerstone of small block Ford engine production. The 1987 engine is mostly a carryover from the 1986 version of the 5.0 HO with the addition of better heads and better flowing intake system. During 1987 the engine features forged pistons with valve relief's, roller camshaft with 260 degrees of duration, tuned sequential fuel injection with one injector for each intake port, and tubular exhaust headers."
The 260 total duration is in the ballpark of a Comp 260H magnum roller cam, which is 206/206 @.050. Its meant to be a slower ramp rate roller cam. So probably on par with OE factory rollers. The biggest thirdgen cam, the G92 car cam, was 202/207 @.050. The normal cam was 179/194. So even though our best cam isnt too far off from the ~206/206, 260/260 cam that the 87 GT mustangs got... its still smaller, and very few of our cars got that. It seems like GM just didnt care, more worried about fuel economy I guess? Kind of disappointing. But yes, it seems like in comparison we have WAY more things holding us back. They got headers (albeit small) stock and a bigger cam stock.
My favorite reason to own a 3rd gen as opposed to a 4th gen..... it's REALLY helpful to have a hood you can open and access the ENTIRE engine bay, just like an old muscle car. Counts for a lot with us home-gamers who have limited garages.
Love the "house of ill repute red" interior, too!!
#12
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
The L98 motor ALWAYS got the "good guy" cam from GM. It was only the 305 TPIs that sometimes got the "little cam", depending on different things over the years. Usually the 305 TPI/Auto combination was the one they stuffed the "peanut cam" into. But the big boy L98 always got the good cam, all years.
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
The L98 motor ALWAYS got the "good guy" cam from GM. It was only the 305 TPIs that sometimes got the "little cam", depending on different things over the years. Usually the 305 TPI/Auto combination was the one they stuffed the "peanut cam" into. But the big boy L98 always got the good cam, all years.
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Car: 1979 Malibu
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
My 91 z28 g92 305 tpi 5 speed car had the factory "big boy" cam in it. Ive got several of them at the shop. Work great in TBI motors.
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Car: 92 T/A 'vert
Engine: Mild .040 over L98 4 bolt mains
Transmission: Mostly stock 700R4, 2600 Vigilante
Axle/Gears: LS1 3.42
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Not a day goes by when I don't kick myself for selling my 'formy even though I love my 'vert. Now, make us "mul_lethead" thirdgenners proud! Subbed.
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
The last update I read on Snowball was the installation of an all digital aftermarket dash and all aftermarket suspension components. I think they used a lot of stuff from BMR if I'm not mistaken.
Other than that I haven't read anything on project Snowball in a long while. I'm intrested in seeing some updates on that car as well.
Other than that I haven't read anything on project Snowball in a long while. I'm intrested in seeing some updates on that car as well.
#21
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Not much to tell on Snowball...the wiring, suspension, brakes, and trans are finished. Hopefully Mr. U will have some time to finish it up and get it running. We are focusing our efforts on this car, and could certainly arrange a third-gen battle when its done or even third vs fourth vs fifth-gen.
#22
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
It should win the lightweight class for sure...
#23
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Car: 92 T/A 'vert
Engine: Mild .040 over L98 4 bolt mains
Transmission: Mostly stock 700R4, 2600 Vigilante
Axle/Gears: LS1 3.42
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
The last update I read on Snowball was the installation of an all digital aftermarket dash and all aftermarket suspension components. I think they used a lot of stuff from BMR if I'm not mistaken.
Other than that I haven't read anything on project Snowball in a long while. I'm intrested in seeing some updates on that car as well.
Other than that I haven't read anything on project Snowball in a long while. I'm intrested in seeing some updates on that car as well.
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Car: 1984 LG4 Camaro
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Scott,
I am sending you an email to discuss the possibility of using CTW Motorsports wheels on this project car... Please check your email.
I am sending you an email to discuss the possibility of using CTW Motorsports wheels on this project car... Please check your email.
#25
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
These are some links to some of the project Snowball articles.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ball/articles/
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ball/articles/
#28
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...rior_upgrades/
This is a link to the start of the dash board upgrade.
This is a link to the start of the dash board upgrade.
#30
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
These are some links to Dakota Digitals digital dashes for 1982-1989 thirdgens.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd168.htm
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd781.htm
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd168.htm
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd781.htm
#33
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Snowball update.....
If you've been following the series you know that the car was essentially stripped to the shell and went through some pretty serious fabrication/modifications. With the exception of the trans overhaul, like most of you, I performed all of the work learning as I went. That's not to say the project hasn't taken way too long/forever.
When a car is stripped and modified to this point it usually goes through a few stages of assembly and disassembly before paint to make sure everything is where you want it and thankfully we are on the final round which will be completed at www.iimuchfabrication.com with the goal of having the car on the road by spring.
John Ulaszek
If you've been following the series you know that the car was essentially stripped to the shell and went through some pretty serious fabrication/modifications. With the exception of the trans overhaul, like most of you, I performed all of the work learning as I went. That's not to say the project hasn't taken way too long/forever.
When a car is stripped and modified to this point it usually goes through a few stages of assembly and disassembly before paint to make sure everything is where you want it and thankfully we are on the final round which will be completed at www.iimuchfabrication.com with the goal of having the car on the road by spring.
John Ulaszek
#34
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Snowball update.....
If you've been following the series you know that the car was essentially stripped to the shell and went through some pretty serious fabrication/modifications. With the exception of the trans overhaul, like most of you, I performed all of the work learning as I went. That's not to say the project hasn't taken way too long/forever.
When a car is stripped and modified to this point it usually goes through a few stages of assembly and disassembly before paint to make sure everything is where you want it and thankfully we are on the final round which will be completed at www.iimuchfabrication.com with the goal of having the car on the road by spring.
John Ulaszek
If you've been following the series you know that the car was essentially stripped to the shell and went through some pretty serious fabrication/modifications. With the exception of the trans overhaul, like most of you, I performed all of the work learning as I went. That's not to say the project hasn't taken way too long/forever.
When a car is stripped and modified to this point it usually goes through a few stages of assembly and disassembly before paint to make sure everything is where you want it and thankfully we are on the final round which will be completed at www.iimuchfabrication.com with the goal of having the car on the road by spring.
John Ulaszek
PM concerning your car sent.
#35
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Car: 92 T/A 'vert
Engine: Mild .040 over L98 4 bolt mains
Transmission: Mostly stock 700R4, 2600 Vigilante
Axle/Gears: LS1 3.42
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
These are some links to Dakota Digitals digital dashes for 1982-1989 thirdgens.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd168.htm
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd781.htm
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd168.htm
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd781.htm
#36
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Thats intresting. I never thought of that. I've got a Camaro and most of my thirdgen knowledge is more Camaro related so I don't know a lot about the particulars for thirdgen Firebirds.
What about the companies that repair the digital dashes for the C4 Corvettes and the 1982-1986 Camaro Berlinetta models with the digital dash - would they repair the digital dashes for the Firebirds aswell?
That's messed up if they don't have an aftermarket option for the Firebirds as well that is basically an off-the-shelf option like the Camaros. I know there are a lot of thirdgen Firebird owners who would like to at least look at a system like this and see if it was right for them.
For the Firebirds it sounds like if you wanted to go with an aftermarket digital guage set up you would have to design, engineer, and install your own custom set up.
What about the companies that repair the digital dashes for the C4 Corvettes and the 1982-1986 Camaro Berlinetta models with the digital dash - would they repair the digital dashes for the Firebirds aswell?
That's messed up if they don't have an aftermarket option for the Firebirds as well that is basically an off-the-shelf option like the Camaros. I know there are a lot of thirdgen Firebird owners who would like to at least look at a system like this and see if it was right for them.
For the Firebirds it sounds like if you wanted to go with an aftermarket digital guage set up you would have to design, engineer, and install your own custom set up.
Last edited by yaj15; 10-24-2012 at 04:35 PM.
#37
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Car: 92 T/A 'vert
Engine: Mild .040 over L98 4 bolt mains
Transmission: Mostly stock 700R4, 2600 Vigilante
Axle/Gears: LS1 3.42
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
If Dakota Digital made something like the top one for a 'bird, I'd have my checkbook out in a heartbeat.
#38
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Awesome project! I agree with the statements above, stick with the TPI style motor, rather than a newer swap. I've always enjoyed the 3rd gen articles in the past and can't wait to see how this project goes.
Last edited by ScreaminRedZ; 10-26-2012 at 08:55 AM.
#39
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Keep the 5.7 liter and add a holley port fuel inj setup which looks to be one of the latest setups that you can turbo, supercharge, spray or whatever and you dont have to scrap your earlier build. Can keep old acess and ac with it also.
#41
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
I would love to see some of the board sponsors get some love, like Spohn, Hawks etc. for this project.
I also would like to see what normal bolt on's can do while turning the factory system, before the inevitable crazy modding that ensues.
I also would like to see what normal bolt on's can do while turning the factory system, before the inevitable crazy modding that ensues.
#42
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Looks like the May issue now. Just waiting for parts to arrive to get started on the engine build.
Last edited by Scott@GMHTP; 04-01-2013 at 11:32 AM.
#44
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Car: 87 Camaro
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Looks really nice Scott. Going to be a great car to see. Looking forward to seeing it in the magazine.
#47
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Car: 91 GTA, 91 Formula, 89 TTA
Engine: all 225+ RWHP
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Axle/Gears: Always the good ones
Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
Anyhow, nice to see a thirdgen and another vote for keep it TPI.
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Re: GMHTP Third-Gen Project Car
I had a time capsule car like that and had to sell due to the military moving me it had 29 k 89 firebird formula 350 MINT blew the tranny in 91 and went in storage and was started every now and then and it too had a rod knock
wish I still had it original acdelco radio and still sounded good and the doors shut without rubbing
wish I still had it original acdelco radio and still sounded good and the doors shut without rubbing