1gary

On this site I do see ref's to special cams/cam grinders a whole bunch.Someone asks about a cam for their car and the reply is a ref(as a example:Joe's shade tree make it all better black magic no name cam). I am saying first,by going the route are you really,really,getting more??. For some folks on here the only ref they might have is before driving the car with a 150 hp grocery getter engine.Now they have done a whole bunch of stuff to the engine and are realizing the difference,but without swapping a bunch of cams,they really don't know IF they gained that much over any other cam on the market.

I think you really need to ask yourself a important question.By building what I did,did that make what combo I have that much significantly special so a "special grind cam" really going to make it work better or worst??.

I do have a gut feeling for some it is a way of not dealing with a the basic knowledge of the terms of cams and how cams effect the performance of a engine.That the word of mouth marketing is in play here.And if you haven't learned about cams,your relying on the grinder to give you the correct answers when truly you don't know if what is purposed is correct.In my mind,you still very much need to have the knowledge of cams.Maybe more so because your telling the grinder based on the knowledge what you want and the motivation for going to him is you have done the research to not find a stocking shelf cam that fits your needs.Do you see the difference here??. You shouldn't avoid that fact you need to know!!.

Am I convinced a engine with a c/r below 10.5 needs a specialty cam??. Well yes and no.Just hold that thought for a minute.Just as a matter of fact,when c/r's go up,cam grinds play a much larger role.A example of that is a 632 BBC with a 14.1 c/r being run on Alky with a touch of nitrous most certainty needs a special ground cam.That is done with input from both the owner of the engine and the grinder to come up with a final product.

Some of this just smacks of the wrong idea that solely a cam will turn what a guys has into a giant killer.That isn't how it works.................

Damon

The higher up the food chain you go the more important it is to match the cam to the rest of the combo. For your average backyard hotrodder it's almost certainly not worth the expense in terms of how much power you are potentially leaving on the table. And the chances of spec'ing something that's just totally out to lunch are much higher without a DETAILED conversation with a pro who will work with you to make sure it's going to be well matched to the rest of the combo.

DeltaElite121

Let's make an analogy for the sake of ease in understanding. You want to know what size shoe I wear. I tell you "Large Nike" and you think OK, easy enough.. so you go get me a shoe from the back that fits that description. Will it fit? Most likely, but how GOOD of a fit? Maybe it's too loose on outside, or maybe there's not enough sole support.. or maybe it's just too big in general and makes it hard to walk.. or maybe you grabbed a running shoe and I wanted something casual. You're leaving extra to be desired just out there, and you're still paying the same price.. Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, honestly.

Case and point? Sure, shelf cams work.. but why go generic when you can get EXACTLY what works for around the same price? My cam didn't cost me any more getting it custom ground than it did going with a shelf cam.. so why waste the money on old grinds when there's probably new information out there now? I'm totally happy with my custom Bullet cam, and it honestly didn't cost me a dime more with the exception I chose a premium core.. that's it.

No, the cam isn't going to give you an extra 1,000 horsepower.. but you'de probably gain anywhere from 8-25 with an optimized cam for YOUR build over an equal generic shelf cam, along with a much better hp/torque curve suited to your specific needs. You can't possibly go wrong there. Even if you only gained 10 HP, imagine if you took the "optimized route" with everything you did.. before you know it, you've got an extra 45 horsepower you didn't think you had simply because you matched things properly.

You know just as much as we do that it's all about the whole package. Skimp on one part of it and the whole package hurts because of it.

abray1

The shoe thing makes me think of Al Bundy but your analogy is spot on. A guy shared a trick with me way back when that if you flow bench you heads and they get maximum flow at 580 lift then get a 570 lift cam to keep up your air speed. Same with exhaust.

1gary

On a lot of topics you and I have a kinship.Apart of my point is the part that is being skimped on is learning enough about how a cams works to be able to tell a grinder exactly how to grind your cam.For some special grinds are a crutch because they never bothered to learn that.So it leaves them venerable to the possibility it didn't result in anything.With hundreds of thousands of these special grinds being sold a yr you surely got to wonder if your cam isn't being ground in general terms as well.

1gary

I am not going to get into a clinic on cams in this thread.There is tons of that on the net.We use to travel alot to sell SBC parts at swap meets.There was a guy that was there with a cam doctor.And timing is critical with cams.He found many,many,cams that the QC was,well just awful.The first two lobes where as advertized and then the second two where close,but not on,etc.

It all stems on you need to learn about cams so you know what your buying.

DeltaElite121

It should also be mentioned that you really need to know what "kind" of cam grinder you're talking to. Everyone has different approaches to getting the same result... like small heads, big cam... or big heads, small cam.. intake choices, etc. Everyone does things differently, yet interestingly enough - can often get the same result. Just depends on if that type of result is what YOU wanted.

I think you're right though, Gary.

1gary

As I said in another thread,Crane used to be know for special grinds.You would find on one end of the cam a Chevy part number and the other end a Crane stamp.
So you need to know how much rm did a regrind need before the regrind got into needing to be reheat treated?. Or if you special ground cam started with a blank slate.
All roller cams that I know of are steel cams.
Most successful cam manufactures are closely tied to head manufactures.That is a important point here.
Is your cam a one off only cam like it??. That is very doubtful.There are more than likely hundred of thousands out there.They are built on the same general outline as a stocking part number.Does one degree of duration really mean that much??. One degree of advance or retard impact you much?.(btw you can get the same result with advance or retard keys)It does question the validity of buying what you think is a grind just for your combo.

It all leads back to you doing your homework on knowledge of cams and the effects it has.But don't fall pray to just another marketing game plan because you didn't bother to learn what you should have and rely on someone else to tell you it is the best since sliced bread.You really don't know if it is at the top of what your getting or something else.

I tend to stay closely to well know name brands because of their Q.C.abilities and their ability to be using blank cores and not regrinds.Also their ability to have a budget for R & D and strong ties to head manufactures over the yrs.Word of mouth is what it sounds like.The newest guy out there might not have what you need once you have taken into account all these things.New ideas,sure.As long as they are supported by a long history.It is a very,very,important decision for you guys to think on our own about.

1gary

One other thing.A ad campaign from Sly Sims that surely applies here is:"A informed consumer is our best customer".

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Knowing cams helps some but as long as you know what motor parts and head flow characteristics you have are and can describe exactly what you need the motor to do and a good cam guy will beable to give the exact specs for the motor. Now due to valvetrain flex and other variables the specs may be slightly off theoretical perfect. Thats where playing with cam centerlines to find max power would help. Some pro teams i am sure run many cam grinds and find the best one due to power or acceleration improvements. Average joe does not have time or funds to do that but i can tell you this, a custom cam can make a noticeable difference.
Most cams are on a 110 or 112 lsa with 4 deg advance ground in. Guess what not every motor works best on those centers or with that much advance. So goin custom can pick the valve events to work best. Seen this work well in the lt1 world. Popular shelf grinds like comps cc306 at 230/244 deg 112 lsa or cc503 at 224/230 112lsa work well on stock heads. Even ported heads. But guys running custom grinds have found you can match the big 306 cam's power on top end with near 6-8 deg less duration with a more agressive lobe and much tighter 107-109 lsa and have better and much more low to mid range power after tuning. There are advantages in goin custom. Certain parts have certain characteristics that require different cams. Its worth the cost on some builds. An extra 8-15 lbft across the rpm range and 5-10 hp can easily happen with the right cam and thats noticeable average power. Some grinds in more modded motors will make even more power

1gary

Orr-we build a car pretty much around a circle track cam for a 9.90 class.Everyone told us we couldn't win with it.But we got it on a good deal used with two dyno pulls on it.So the T/C,rear end ratio,tire size,first gear on a glide was all purchased around the cam.Of course the c/r was built around it too.The car could hook on ice.Ran from 1.27 to 1.25 60'ers.Ran the number like clockwork.It won a Can-Am national event.It was so well matched up,it really never needed much work to get it race ready every wk.

We went from a 565 to the current mountain motor and certainly the cam difference was dramatic.
We dictated to a cam grinder what we wanted in the spec's of the cam.Seems to be working well so far.Tons of grunt mid to high end and we really haven't tap the top end yet.Just a small amount of .002 on the bottle produced a 1/8 of 4.56@150.

1gary

Now please note my post is not in any way,shape,or form, a boosts about the times or car.I is as simple as a example of how cams do make a difference when knowledge of cams/heads/c/r/rear end ratios/tire sizes,is proper applied.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yep is all about the combo. Seems to work well for you, no doubt. Generally I would say most pick a cam to work with the parts you have or pick all the parts and cam together with a specific goal in mind, but sometimes when you pick a cam, then match the parts around it, you'll have great success.