TheHof

Hi all, well I'm as new as new can get to the world of Camaros ... aside from admiring them from afar.

BUT! To make a long story short, today I discovered a very good friend of mine has had a 1984 Camaro sitting in a barn in her back yard since 2008. I was shocked to discover this as she has know for YEARS I am big on cars and love working on them and that it took this long for her to tell me.

I demanded to check it out immediately so I grabbed a flashlight and went in and lo and behold there it sat. Covered in dust and crap but solid and rust free with T Tops and "Penta" wheels. (Sorry don't know the proper name for them but they look similar to the AMG Pentas on my older Mercedes). She did say her father put in a 305 engine at some point.

It turns out one night she was driving and popped the gears from 4th immediately into 2nd and there was a loud bang from the engine like a cannon ball hit. The car then limped home and she put it in the barn and never drove it again.

Th first thing I thought was the timing chain blew (?). I was dying to to do more poking around the engine - at least check the oil for a head gasket issue - but it was 0 degrees, dark and almost no room to get to the car and there was junk all over the hood.

I have to say it was REALLY exciting to pop open that barn door and see the car sitting there. She really did love the car and I would love to see if I could get it up and running. I do alot of work on my cars (1989 Mercedes 560 SEL and a bunch of Lincolns from the 70's to 90's) but never on a Chevy.

Unfortunately I will have to wait a little longer until the weather warms up to get more access to the car ... but I really wanted to get an idea from Veterans of these cars as to what they think might of gone down that fatal night! I will also get the VIN from her and do some decoding.

Thanks and I look forward to meeting you all!!

m16a2r

so originally car was v6 and someone put in 305 engine? Carb or FI?

ex-x-fire

Lets see a picture in the barn with all the dust n' stuff.

TheHof

She said he father at one point put in the 305 .... I don't know if it is carb or FI. I will ask her ASAP.

I really wanted to take a picture as it was. She lives about 45 minutes north of me and I will be up there again next weekend at the latest and will take some pics!

TheHof

A little more info ... it is a Carb 305 Z28.

TheHof

Well, finally got to take a better look at the car. Photos attached. I see no signs of an issue with the head gasket. Oil is normal color and coolant is fine.

It has been a while since I did some work on a carb, but my gut is telling me that might be the issue. I'll need to look more into the Edelbrock carb, but things look gummed up and the choke seems a bit stuck. I have a video of me messing with it I may post as well and maybe someone can see an issue with it.

84redta

iTrader: (34)

Not to be a stickler on details by any means, but Z28 never came with a V6, but from the looks of it, unless someone did a whole lot of work and swapped a lot of parts, it looks to be a z28, VIN number will possibly tell, can't remember about '84, but check the vin sticker in the center console when you can get into it. I don't think it would have a Vin plate on the rad support like my '83, cause '84 they switched to full fisher body production, idk, check the vin decoder and see about a sticker in the center console, look for Z28 or one of the V8 codes.

TheHof

Damn, i meant to check the VIN when I was there too but forgot! My friend did say her father was always tinkering with the car and at some point had a different engine put in.

Can anyone recommend a good place to read about the rundown on how these carbs should function - i.e., what lever does what, what spring does what etc.?
Last time I worked on a carb was when I had my 75 Lincoln and it was quite different from what I remember. While fiddling with this one for a bit, a few pieces seemed either frozen or not connected properly. When pulling the throttle, the choke barely opened and the plates above the bowls could only be moved by pushing on the plate (?)

thanks again for any help or insight!!

IROCtheRoad

Thats a quadrajet E4ME carb.

Your best bet for carb info is in the sticky up the carb section, Cliff Ruggels' book, and the factory service manual. I just rebuilt mine (first time ever rebuilding a carb) and it works perfectly fine.

For now you can get some carb cleaner and just start spraying to your heart's content. Feel free to PM me if you need any help.

Oh, looks like you get a few uncapped vacuum ports on the carb.

TheHof

Thank you! I'm sure I will be hitting you up .... maybe to much where you might block me once I get rolling on it!

I really need to get my head around these carbs. I'm not even sure where the vacuum lines are that need capping. My next trip out I will need to get the old gas out, spray up the carb and pull the plugs and spray down the chambers and give it a roll!

naf

iTrader: (7)

All normal.

LG4 305 with the ccc-qjet and mechanical rad fan. Eighth digit of your VIN will be 'H'. It has a five speed? It'll have the heavier flywheel and less aggressive gears than the L69, lower rear end ratio as well.

The sticky on top of the carb forum will have some good stuff.

TheHof

Well, finally had some time to get back to work on the Camaro. So far drained out the old fuel, cleaned the carb and started pulling plugs (and it is an 8 cylinder).

A couple of the plugs were a bit oil fouled but so far have only 5 out due to rain ... and like everyone knows getting them is a test of patience. Fortunately I've owned alot of late 80's 5.0 Lincolns that have a similar bloody knuckle set up and have a ton of joints and extensions.

Looking through the engine some more there are just alot of things out of whack. Mostly because at one time the engine was changed and there are a number cut hoses that lead nowhere etc. and it is hard to tell what belongs where, what is no longer needed, and what might be screwed up.

One thing I found is what seems like a cut PCV valve hose that comes from the canister on the drivers front of the engine. But there is a another PCV valve that is in place but with a screw caping out the end of the hose If there is a PCV issue it might explain the oil fouling I suppose.

Below are some photos of what I found .... if anyone makes sense of this please let me know! Also, what is the canister? Vacuum? Thanks!!

TheHof

And a pic of it's first ray of daylight in 6 years:

IROCtheRoad

You got everything cleaned up real good. Best thing to do is to get a Chiltons or similar and start tracing plumbing/wires/tubes. All the vacuum hoses are pretty straight forward when looking at the schematics.

Do you still have all of the emission parts?

m16a2r

canister on a pic is your charcoal canister, part of the smog equipment

TheHof

Thanks! I will grab a Haynes or Chilton and see if I can start tracing things. From the charcoal canister there seems to be a PCV set up that is disconnected (in the photo). But there is a PCV in place as well .... a good manual should guide me a little better. The problem is the engine has been swapped so some things have been cut and may not be needed any more and I will have to trace what is needed or not

Everything else so far is primed for it's first start which will hopefully happen this weekend!

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

It does not necessarily sound like a timing chain. Does it have compression in all cylinders? If so I am thinking as you probably are that you may have a carb problem. You will know alot when you get it fired up.

TheHof

O.K. Finally got everything set for a first start and things are quite grim.

The good news is it started right up on the first turn.

The bad: immediate idle at start up is 5500 RPM. The linkage was a little stiff but it reved like the pedal was floored. Sprayed it all up with some Zep and it moved freely but after every start still the RPMs were red lining. Vacuum issue or gummed up Air bleed or TPS issue I'm assuming? That's actually the least of my problems.

The bigger issue is it sounds like a it is about to throw a rod right out the engine. Extremely loud knock. I only have very short video clips of it running as the idle is so blazingly high I didn't want to leave the car running for more than a few seconds. But I'm really curios what you guys think ... but it seems to me it's days are over

Video to follow by the end of the day!

As soon as my friend posts the videos up i will post the video links

TheHof

And the sad video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl8SrkmRGi4

Gordiggz

Might be a bump in the road, but I wouldn't say "sad"..... after all you did dig a pretty sweet looking camaro shell out of a barn. 305's are still a dime a dozen, I'm in the buffalo area and any given day you can find a usable shortblock for 100-200 bucks.

Richboll

Looks like its worth saving. Are you buying it or???

TheHof

I may be hitting you up for some engine leads!

My friend will keep the car as it was her fathers before her and she loves it.

I'm just disappointed the idle is so excessive as it makes it a bit harder to really hear what is going. I want to give it time to just settle back in after sitting so long and let it run but it sounds brutal. The video might not totally pick it up but it is full throttle rev and the knock sounds like a rod is about to shoot out.

I'm thinking next just sort out the idle if possible where I can get it running at a safe RPM and then see if it is new engine time for sure.

Does anyone have any suggestions for clearing the idle? All I have noticed is the TVS is fully disconnected - it looks like it was broken off and the small hose is torn off as well. I have yet to figure out where it actually goes - I have read in the thermostat housing vicinity but can't find a connection. Not sure if this would cause 5500 RPM at idle though.

I am also tempted to just let it idle for a bit to see if it just drops on it's own after the carb gets fresh gas running through it for a bit. But letting it rev like that after sitting with that knock seems like a sure way to toast the engine for good if it isn't already there.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Nice find. Looks beautiful. Dont let it stay on for too long at full throttle, especially with that knock. Unless you WANT to blow the engine. First thing is first, you gotta sort out that idle issue. Good luck mate, and keep us posted!

Gordiggz

I've been racking my brain on it, the position you're in is tough because you can't really turn it on and watch the carb to see whats going on under there with the motor running.

Here's something I caught in the video that might be a simple fix. I saw the TONS of white smoke on startup. You said you "cleaned" the carb out, right? How long before starting it did you clean it? I'm assuming you used the carb and choke cleaner in a can.

My new theory is maybe you got alot of carb cleaner pooled up somewhere in carb or intake and it's just screaming no matter what because it's pretty much sucking in a second fuel from a second source. That or maybe a large amount of degreaser or solvent pooled under a leaking vacuum line, sucking it into the motor? (Same theory).

Hopefully that's your problem. It could be a combo of vac leaks, poor adjustment and lord knows what else.

As far as leads on short blocks locally go, I'd be happy to help you hunt one down. I've got a knack for finding parts. (being addicted to craigslist will do that).

poloaa008

Thanks for all the reports guys, nice to hear that.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

If you were closer I would give you a 305. I have one complete LG4 and one LB9 half apart.

the car is definitely worth getting a new, or rebuilding the old motor. Looks like a solid car.

EDIT: Make sure nothing is preventing the secondary butterflies from closing completely. If they were even cracked open slightly it would cause the symptoms you are experiencing.

danielsan

Save ittt... just throw a small block in it and call it a day. They're a dime a dozen and pretty much bolt right in.


That body is very clean. Congrats on the find!

TheHof

Thanks for all the info! I sprayed the carb a ton a week before I started it and then again about 1 hour before actual start up.

The car definitely did not rev like that when it was stored. So something must be stuck or dry rotted or, like you said, "over" carb cleaned.

I'm on the road for most of the next two weeks but after that I will check the secondary butterflies and anything else I can think of and try it again.

My friend is open to just popping in another engine which may be the best way to go ... especially if they are inexpensive.

Thanks again and I'll get back soon!

danielsan

just pop another in. its a 305 so any small Gen I 350 will be an improvement even with basic bolt ons.

my engine for example isn't too great. its a GM crate 350 5.7 liter "Hencho un Mexico" edition. however even a basic small block like mine is a dime a dozen and can easily be had for short money - especially with LSx and LT swaps becoming the norm. a particular magazine - I think super Chevy - took a "run of the mill" common 5.7 and with just a 650 Mighty Demon Carb (roughly $450), edelbrock air gap intake (like $220) and long tube headers (you'll be using shorties) got a 5.7 from 290 SAE HP to something around 349hp and a nice amount of torque. Nothing legendary, but still makes an awesome street car.

only reason I know is because I've been debating doing an lsx swap, but due to funds I'm probably gonna do some cheap bolt ons for now and build up the rest of my drive train until I can afford a true LS swap.

you could get a 350 with vortec heads and have a nice cruiser. depending on ur budget you could of course get something else.

anything is better than the engine you have that has sat for some time now, and carb setups are easy.

Gordiggz

If you can't remedy it relatively quickly I'd head toward the new motor route. A 350 would be nice, but honestly, 305's will do the same job. Everybody wants the 350, but that makes 305's dirt cheap to source and basically disposable. If you drove 2 identical cars but one had a 305 and one had a 350, you probably would BARELY notice the difference by seat-of-the-pants feel.

I once bought a whole 305 accessories and all for 50 bucks that ran. I only needed an alternator, but I plucked parts off that thing for years until it was just a shortblock. That was a darn good deal, but they're out there if you look for them.

torque_is_good

is the interior in as nice of shape as the exterior appears to be?

Is there any floor rot?

I'd give my left ******** to find a project car which only needed mechanical work.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

I'm actually selling a car for one left ********. Interested?