Jabpir8

Got a 92 Roadmaster Wagon with TBI 350 ci - Daily drive.
I have in hand a Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 08-407-8 camshaft that I want to use.
stock cam is lift 0.350/0385 in. for duration 179°/195°
CC Xtreme Energy will be 0.472/0.480 in. for duration 200°/206°
dual long header + dual 2 1/2" "H" pattern system + 15psi TBI pressure + beehive springs + full roller rockers 1.5 + HD rebuild of gearbox + head rebuild are the main othe rmodifications I have started to get maximum torque at 1500 RPM (performance with economy) - rear ratio being 2.73 !

I am looking for Roller Hydraulic Lifters to replace the OEM ones.

I thought I would buy CC 850-16 (209 USD) kit and guides+spider (at 125 USD) which seem to be made for my new camshaft but I find less expensive kits in other brands.

Edelbrock Rollin' Thunder 97384 - lifters are 20 USD cheaper (and guides + spider from Edelbrock are also 35 USD cheaper)
Howard Cams OEM 91113 - lifters are 50 USD cheaper
GMPP 12371042 set with guides and spider - 91 USD cheaper than same package from Comp cams (lifters + guides + spider)
Trick Flow OEM 21400002-16 - lifters are 74 USD cheaper

What do you recommend ??? (I will not race, just want to build big torque at low rev.)

Jabpir8

Well ... question could also be: Do Xtreme Energy cams need special lifters of are OEM spec OK ??

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

I dont know how comps lifters are now, but in the past, they where not that good. I got a set, and they where unusable. The rollers where crap and the needle bearings bound up.

For a small cam like that, stock GM lifters would be fine. You could probably reuse your current ones if they are in good shape, all roll freely and dont have too many miles on them.

Alternatively, you can buy new ones from GMPP. The only aftermarket company that Im aware of that makes good roller lifters is Morel. I think Comp has since switched suppliers for their lifters, so maybe others can chime in on how they are now.

Jabpir8

Comp Cams are not very cheap so I would expect they are good quality !

Mine have 130,000 miles so with a new camshaft I really think I must not re-use them.

GMPP will probably make it !

One alternate is to use a set of lifters with link bar (guides and spider not needed anymore).
Howard Cams Lifters, Maximum Effort look good but pricey at 389 USD
But I fear the link bar will add noise and represent more moving mass in the valvetrain whereas std. lifters with guides/spider are more simple and possibly lighter (but cannot get the weight of any of them, this data in never provided by the manufacturers !?)

GMPP then ? conservative choice

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

With comp cams, your really paying for the name on some of the products. I usually only buy from them when its a product that they alone make, like their cam grinds. For lifters and things, there are better deals eslewhere.

I have the linkbar style lifters, and they are noiser than stock because of the link bars. Theres nothing wrong with the stock dogbone style, other than it places limits on lift and base circle (neither of which are likely a concern in your case). Id skip the linkbar types if you have a roller block. Its spending much more money on a feature you dont need. Theyre mainly for older motors without provisions for a roller cam.

Another thing to watch out for is that many aftermarket lifters are also of the anti-pump up design, and require more attention to the lash than stock GM lifters. These lifters are designed with faster bleed down rates, and also seem to be designed to collapse for the first 1/3 of the travel to prevent pump-up. If you run aftermarket lifters, make sure to contact the mfgr. and get the required lash setting. Many require 1 to 1 1/2 of a turn (as in turn of the rocker nut) of lash, which equates to 1.0mm - 1.6mm of preload on the plunger. As I found out the hard way, failure to observe the correct lash setting will cause lots of noise and damage to the lifters.

The stock GM lifters, though, are probably the best choice if your not running high RPMs where valve float can be an issue. Theyll be the most quiet of all the lifters available, and are not sensitive to the lash setting. They function the same no matter where the plunger is located.

As for the weight, my roller lifters where about 60% heavier than a standard flat tappet lifter. They weighed something like 120 grams each.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

As already stated above, the stock GM lifters would work perfectly fine in your situation, and as for the used ones you have right now, 130,000 miles on them doesn't mean a thing as long as the roller wheels on the bottom still spin freely and have no pitting or defects. If you insist on getting a brand new set, I used Speed-Pro brand ones in my latest motor, and they work just fine. You could go with a set of those, or use the GMPP ones if they're cheaper. Comp Cams roller lifters are WAY overpriced for use with a mild cam such as what you're going to put in. In fact, I'm running a Comp Extreme Energy cam in my motor with those Speed-Pro lifters and it's had zero problems.

Jabpir8

Any ref. of Speed pro hydraulic rolelr lifters ? I hard find some and they are flat tappets !

one ref even is under brand "sealed power" is that same origin ?

What about the lifter guides ? do they wear out and really need be replaced ? I am not against saving some bucks but If I want to do it properly I want to replace anything needed.
State of the art baby !

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

When you say "Lifter Guides", are you referring to the holes in the block that the lifters go in? If so, yes they can wear, but it's actually very, very uncommon for those to be worn. I've seen a couple of Chev engine blocks where the lifter bores have been bored out, then had a lifter sleeve pressed in to restore the size of them. But once again, it's extremely rare for lifter bores to be out of spec. As far as what Sealed Power lifters are correct for your motor, these are the ones you need. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-HT-2148/. I'm not sure what the quality of these are, but it's a killer price for a full set of them. They're made by TrickFlow, and most TrickFlow products are usually pretty good stuff. Here's a link to those. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-21400002-16/. The Sealed Power ones add up to $208.00 for a full set, so those TrickFlow ones are a fantastic price.

Jabpir8

Well, the guides I am referring to are the plates which prevent the lifters to rotate in their bore so that roller is always "flat" on the lobes.
this kit (my best choice up to now details all) http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12371042/

As for the Trick Flow you pointed out they were in my potential shopping list in my first post.
I also find the price is great but then I thought they were no good even if I seem to feel that Trick Flow name is somehow a good brand.

If plate guides do not wear at all then I may keep mine (with spider of course) and then save 100 bucks by buying only the trick flow lifters set !?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Ahhhh, now I know which pieces you're referring to! Calling them lifter guides totally makes sense. However, the most common terminology for them, at least on this site, most of us call them "dogbones" due to the shape of them. And in all honesty, I wouldn't waste a single dime buying new ones, unless they actually are so worn you can tell without even having to measure them. I put brand new cam and roller lifters in my 1988 5.7 engine, which had about 250,000 original miles on it, and I reused the same "dogbones", and haven't had any problems from them. As far as what lifters to buy, maybe another member can give you some input on the TrickFlows. I've never used theirs, so I can't tell you yay or nay on those. However, I am running the Sealed Power ones in my motor, and they work perfectly.

Jabpir8

Yep,

Wen't on Internet to "hear" any bad about Trick flow lifter.
Did not find much ...
Can be considered positive I guess !
I need to place an order at Summit soon (installing headers and re-wiring O2 sensor, wiring electric fan, etc ...) so I may take this oprtunity to order the lifters.

Summit are even cheaper (120 USD the set) and really look like the same as trick Flow or GMPP but I feel more confident buying an "official name" ...

Any one has anything to say about Trick flow and Summit valvetrain components ???

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Summit (and their brand trickflow) use a variety of brands under their own in-house label. For example, my summit engine bearings are made by King Engine Bearings in Israel. Some of the stuff they carry is exactly the same as what other manufacturers have, but for less, which is nice as you can get the same product and save.

Im not sure who makes trickflow lifters. There are only a handfull of these companies that make them. I think GM still makes their own, but they could have outsourced them as well.

You can get a good idea of the quality by inspecting the lifter. If the machining is kinda crappy and the roller binds or feels gritty, then Id not run them. My comp lifters had that issue. The rollers where very poorly machined, where covered and filled with metal filings, and the rollers felt like they where full of sand. My Isky lifters where machined to a mirror finish, where spotlessly clean, and had a glassy smooth roller action, but unlike the comps, they cost $450.

watajob

iTrader: (29)

I bought new Delphi OEM lifters and they work fine.

Jabpir8

Finally ordered Howard cams ... they look good on the picture, price was fine and 20 redeem bucks offered by Summit ...

will see when they arrive ...

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I agree with Dimented on the Isky stuff. Their parts are top-notch quality, but damn they're expensive! I remember when I wanted a set of valve springs that were stock diameter so I wouldn't have to machine the spring pockets larger, and about the only spring that met the lift and pressure requirements I needed was the Isky 235-D's. Those springs and matching retainers cost me well over 200 bucks, but they worked fantastic! They enabled me to run a hydraulic roller cam with up to .550 lift with a stock diameter spring.