formulax4

iTrader: (1)

Just got the block back from the machine shop but wasnt too happy with the hone job.What do you guys think?Its good to see some posts to Toxic's build recently.Trust me mine is on a way underfunded scale compared to that.Its going to be some flat top -6.88 ,1.560 pistons of some sort havent picked the pistons at this point but cannot afford forged.Alot of the local circle track guys around here claim to stay away from all hyper pistons and just go with a cast.Im open to sugestions.Not wanting a stock skirt profile due to having previous cracking issues.Just going to overhual the stock 083 heads nothing special.Cant really afford anything fancy.I just figured i would post some eye candy for the true gear heads in here like myself.more to come im waiting on the paint in the mail atm going with por-15.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852145.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852149.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852143.jpg

Guest

What is it exactly, about the honing, that you don't like?
As for the circle track guys not liking hypers, consider how they use their engines, versus how street engines get used. They're near WOT for 10-20 minutes. You can't stay near WOT for 15 seconds, you'd be breaking every posted speed limit in the country.
Hypers need a bit more gap for the top ring, or those Total seal gapless top rings. But hypers work fine for 'vettes and Vipers, so why not for us?

torque_is_good

oil the walls, they'll then be purty

what exactly did you have the shop do to the block?

formulax4

iTrader: (1)

Well the block was square no no decking,Line bore wasnt needed ether.Basically because i was lazy i had them throw the freezeplugs and cam berings,acid tank,bore+hone (.030) They do all the oil gally plugs as well.

I trust the info the shop guy gave me if i ever had to run life or death from somone or catch somone that just took my child or somthing I would want the engine to withstand the hell i would give it.

I guess its better to have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it.
I bet in all reality i put 1.5-3k miles on this car a year.Its your typical garage queen.Just tring to get the car to a point where i can sit back and look at it and say to myself yep its done. Im the third owner and man this car had a horrible first owner.Definately not a one owner car you would want.She has 64k and needs motor trans and rearend rebuilt..
It was an ohio car from 87-09 so the whole k member has a lovely orange coat of surface rust over it.Thinking of rolling that from under the car while the motors out.Soda blast and coat it.Or possibly get a tubeular one.Just worried about what mods i can do without takeing away from the value of the car.

The thing i didnt like about the hone is the hatches wasnt uniform throughout the cylinder.Looks as though theres a change in it at about where the piston reaches the botom of the intake stroke.

Guest

Have you ever watched how the honing machine works? The spinning of the stones is a constant speed, but the stroking action is fast in the middle of it's travel, but slows , stops, and accelerates again, at each end.
Now you won't see this at the tops of the bores, becaust the stones can be pulled about 45% of their length, out of the bore, each stroke. But at the bottom, you can't run then much more than 1/4"-1/2" out, because of the main webbing.
As the stroke slows, the cross-hatch angle becomes less. So at the bottom, it's less than ideal, but 2/3-3/4 of the way up, the angle is more than ideal.
What you're seeing is perfectly normal, it can't be done any other way.
Back to the hypers, both the base 430-HP 'vette and the viper can be run, full throttle, up to their 180+-MPH top speeds without hurting their pistons. Both have been tested around the Nurburgring. Of course that track means much more off-throttle between full-throttle pulls, but it's still more than rushing to the hospital or chasing a kidnapper.
Hypers aren't fragile unless abused. Circle-track racing is abuse. What you're proposing, not so much. Hypers are stronger than cast. They just hold heat differently, and aren't malleable like 2618 forgings. But then again, neither are cheap castings.
If you intend to push them to their limits in a fresh build, then go get the cylinders honed another thousandth, as per Keith Black.

formulax4

iTrader: (1)

I hear the silvo lite pistons are not that well of a pick am i right? Yeah i agree that it wont be driven like the racers do.Its a weekend cruiser with some leadfoot inbetween.Thanks for the input it sure helps in makeing the choice.
Also wanted to say thanks for the info on the honing.
Could a possible lean running condition simulate the the exeeded threshhold for hypers?Lean and dragrace style runs i mean.The whole kidnapper thing is a lol but never know when youll need to use the 5.7 h.p

I thinking of these. http://www.jegs.com/i/Sealed-Power/8...ductId=1434022

torque_is_good

from what I can see I have no concerns about the honing. It looks fine but again, based upon the photos.

About being lazy, that's not how I see it. I view that as being smart. I always have blocks cleaned and no longer even attempt cam bearings myself nor will I try to press on pistons to the rods. The shops have much more experience and better tools than me for doing those specific applications. It's short dollars for the peace of mind you get.

formulax4

iTrader: (1)

Hey again! Im a little bummed out right now,Just recived the piston and ring set and recived an open box from jegs.The pistons looked good but three of the lower rings had small nicks in them.I am sending them back it will be a week before i get newones
Sad to see jegs sending open stuff to custumers.Its ether that or maybe somone is looking for a bonus at fedex.Ill post again when rotateing assy is complete.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852163.jpg

formulax4

iTrader: (1)

Sorry its been awile had some family issues that had to be addressed.Not sure too many are following this anyhow :P
Still waiting to get the heads back but all the rest of the block is together.(pics soon).
I have a question.. As im looking to reinstall the oil filter adapter with the bypass in it im wondering if i should spend a few bucks on a adapter without the bypass.I purchased the m55hv oilpump i know ill prolly never need the extra volume but figured whynot.Its a normal pressure high volume.Should i remove the bypass adapter and replace it with a non bypass one?I plan on useing decent filters in the future and from what i understand is most filters are made with the bypass inside the filter anyhow.Anythoughts on this? Thx.

formulax4

iTrader: (1)

bump for the bypass Q

formulax4

iTrader: (1)

bump...

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

If you run sans bypass, you will need an oil filter capible of full flow. With a standard filter, much of the oil bypasses when the engine is at high RPMs. This prevents an excessive pressure differential from building up as teh filter is restrictive at high oil flows. You cant just put one of the little can style ones from Pep-Boys on there or itll come apart internally from all the pressure, especially the new e-core garbage ones. Summit and others carry large oil filters that can handle a full flow oil system.

If you just want to use regular filters, then get the bypass style filter adapter. Most of the autoparts stores carry the standard melling adapters. FWIW, the stock filter is a non-bypass style. There are internal bypass ones that will fit, but I dont know the PNs of the top of my head.

Also, you might want to reconsider the high volume pump on a standard build. This puts a lot more load on the timing set, front cam bearing, and distributor as your basically just churning all the oil around in the pan. Probably about 90% of what the HV can move will have to be bypassed back into the pan with stock oil clearnaces. A HV pump is more for an application like circle-track racing where there are larger clearances and more oil flow to keep the bearings cool. The HV pump is even worse if its one of the new style ones with a thin casting. In your application, it will probably just snap right off.

Youll have to spend some money and get a standard volume melling select. Its unfortunate that melling made their old M55 standby an expensive "deluxe" unit and replaced it with a grenade-o-matic one, but thats just how life is.

Edit: heres the one you want: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-10553/

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Opps!

Looks like someone at the shop but the cam bearings in UPSIDE DOWN! Thats a deal killer right there. You dont want them installed like that. They will have a VERY short lifespan. The pressure there at the bottom of the bearing is upwards of several thousand PSI as the oil film has to support a large load. The oil hole must not fall between the 4 and 8 o'clock positions, respectively. The best place to have it is either 12 or 2-3 o'clock. This sets up the proper oil wedge. If the oil hole is at the bottom, the oil film will collapse and the bearings will wipe.

formulax4

iTrader: (1)

Yeah i see that now. I already assembled the engine too.My fav thin to do is get drunk and put together a motor.I guess in this case i missed that.It makes sense to have it as you say so the galley can hold oil and not have to push it against gravity.I was in question about the machine shop i chosen.I guess if you want something done right you have to do it yourself.Thank you for pointing that out i would have most likely never have noticed it.I plan on getting more cash flow going and putting a good cam intake and set of afr heads on it.Ill most likely re-cam bearing it at that point as well as for now ima let it be.The car is pretty much a garage queen atm and im sure i wont put more than a few thousand miles on it before i do the top end.Hope it holds till then.Purchased the apu1 autoprom the other day cant wait to get it in the mail.Again thank you!!


Here is some pics of my 87 norwood GTA It only has 65k on the body though atm it has the improperly installed cam bearing

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852345.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852352.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852351.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852348.jpg

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

It may or may not cause issues in the long run. If your running stock or near stock valvesprings, then the bearings can probably handle the less than ideal conditions. If your running high rate valvesprings, though, then its something that youll need to keep an eye on. That front bearing is very heavily loaded. It not only carries the loads from the lifters, but also the timing set as well, which is under considerable tension as it has to drive the cam and oil pump.

You can tell almost right away if the brearing is in trouble by looking at the oil. There will normally be a small ammount of particles and stuff in it from wear. But with a bad bearing, itll look like metallic gold spray paint.

If the oil looks ok, you can probably run it for a while without issue. If the oil has a lot of metal in it, then you should consider replacing the bearings sooner rather than later. This is especially true in a roller applicaiton, as if the bearing at teh front goes bad, the front of the cam will sag down, and force the rollers to ride along one edge rather than flat. It can lead to cracked rollers, or even the cam breaking right before the next journal.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Nice looking car, BTW Its a hardtop, too. I have t-tops, and Ive been hating them since day one. Theyre OK now with new weatherstripping and SFCs, but they did a lot of damage to the carpet and floor when they where leaking.

formulax4

iTrader: (1)

Thx! I envy the t-top cars on those nice cool summer nights.The leaks are less than desirable tho.Here is a couple of pics from the first oil change.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852354.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852353.jpg

It seems to me to have an awful lot or metal particulates compared to all of the other motors i have built.It was kinda expected sense the hone was a little rough imo.I'm hoping its just the rings wearing in.Ill know for sure after the next two oil changes or so after break in.Got a magnet tipped oil pan plug and a rather large magnet on the pan as well.The particles are very tiny specs not flakes or anything.If they still appear in the oil after break in and several oil changes Ima tear it back apart and find out whats going on.
Here's a few more pics:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852278.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i.../Photo0082.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852344.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...s/SN852331.jpg

Say would anyone know where to get decent wire harness looms for the entire under hood compartment?I'm currently working on making the under hood nice and tidy and wanna get rid of that blue cheap conduit and go with a better quality black like oem.I just got the autoprom and im happy with it.Though It will be more useful in a future heavily modded tpi.As for now I'm not wanting to build up this particular car due to it having only 65k miles.(haven't decided yet)After i finally defeat this evil maf code 33 im getting Ima stiffen up the tranny next.(corvette servos sunshell,t.v valve good clutches,shift kit and a slightly larger stall converter with lockup)enough to hold though hell and bark the tires in a few gears
So i guess my next couple of questions would be where could i find the conduit for the wires with the large 3'' included.Also would you think .30 over with those pistons need the MAF table modded at all?The threshold is 45 gr/sec and throws the code 33 like mad but i don't wana just patch over the problem.Thx for viewing

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

If you want to see what type of metal it is, drop a neodymium magnet in it and let it sit overnight. If its steel/cast iron from the cylinder liners/rings, then the magnet will have fuzz all over it in the morning. If its bearing material, then the magnet will stay clean.

Since its the first oil change, its too hard to tell if its an issue. If it looks like that on the next two changes, then its wiping a bearing for sure. Thats what mine looked like when it was eating the front cam bearing. Every oil change looked like that, and worse.

As far as the conduit (actually called slit loom) goes, places like Del City carry it, as well as waytekwire.com. The one you want is the high temp fire retardant. Its good to something like 300 deg. F. I used it when I redid my electrical system, and it survives most of the underhood temps ok, but it can get a little goopy if you let it get too close to the headers, so consider using the ultra-high temp stuff if you have any runs near the exhaust.