onesmartidiot

I hate to dig up a thread from 07 but I didnt find anything recent in my searches. I have read and reread the hotrodding article about the pansy smog 305 being turned into a 350+ hp breathing monster.

I had bought the ls motor mounts for my car, but after deciding the cost was more than I would want to do for a 20 year old car, Id rather spruce up what I have for a nice, reliable sunday driver.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...cks/index.html

Seems they didnt even touch the short block, this is where I will probably need a little machine work/ new pistons (due to dropped valve) but I dont know what combination would best suit the top end build they performed.

I will say that if I can get past 300hp I will be estatic, I would like to follow this article to get near the 370 they acheived (for bragging reasons of course)

Other than what pistons, low end work would be good measure for reliability, I dont know how to go about the heads. I have columbus col-weld at my disposal, but I wouldnt know what specs to ask for in a set of heads.

I just want more ummph from stoplight to stoplight, I dont drag/ never will. 370hp seems more than enough to scoot this car, 150 isnt all that bad, I just cant lose to another focus without feeling like a pansy lol

I'm curious what parts everyone will recommend, I'd like to have my engine bay painted and motor work done for summer since I paid $150 for my custom tags for another year

Apeiron

You don't need anything exotic in the bottom end, a cast crank and flat-top hypereutectic pistons with valve reliefs are fine. Save some money in your budget to have it balanced. You'll want a new torque converter for that engine, too.

onesmartidiot

This will be my first motor build (outside of stock stuff) So sorry in advance for saying something stupid

My crank right now would be iron right? So thats something I could just take to get balanced?

What about connecting rods, I want something I can abuse for many years without any major internal problems.

I've read bad things about hyperpnumatic pistons over the years about breakage, is this true? and How do I find the right relifes for the heads I want?

Oh yeah, I think I like the specs on the vortec L31 heads from gmpp, they are 170cc/64cc vs the 180cc/60cc from the article (this will only affect top end rpm right?)

As a stock head would this allow the 300+ hp target? (new from jegs for $600)

What kind of cam should I look for? Is that what the lift specs on the heads call for? like .450 or something?

I'd like a rumble, but something drivable in both town and the freeway.

We will get to the rest of the top end later, I'm just trying to make sense of what I need from the oil pan up.

Apeiron

The crank is cast steel. You don't just balance it, you balance the whole rotating assembly, so you take in the crank, pistons, rods, rod bearings, wrist pins, rings and wrist pin retainers if there are any. If it moves, it's part of the balancing act.

Hypereutectic pistons are plenty strong for normal, naturally aspirated use, especially at a wheezy low 300 HP. Valve reliefs are pretty generic, you don't need to match them to the head for anything streetable you'd build.

Vortec heads are a good idea. Keep the lift on the cam under .500 for Vortecs, but you can vary the duration. You'll still need to have the heads worked for that much lift. Aftermarket Vortecs will almost certainly come pre-worked-over.

Tobias05

I second the vortec head idea, and I'd run the Edelbrock 2116 so you can keep the E4ME system intact. Would need a computer "friendly" camshaft, but it'll still be lightyears beyond what you have now.

And don't forget a custom TC and some 3.42s out back.

Apeiron

Not on a carb setup.

onesmartidiot

the gm heads are at .450 lift and CAN be modified to .500. So stock .450 should suit the application just fine right?

What brand with pistons should I go with?

And what is a E4ME system? I am carbed and no computer, I was also planning on dumping the air pump assembly to clean the bay up a bit too

Apeiron

Go ahead and get them done for more lift. Just about any brand of piston is fine. An E4ME is the original computer-controlled Quadrajet.

Grumbles

Lt1 factory cam should net you a little hp love without going over what vortecs can handle stock. There' a cheeeeap GMPP cam on summit right now but it has way too much duration to be any good.

onesmartidiot

I will only need 2 valve releif pistons right?

Summit carries this keith black brand, KB143KTM-STD and KB229KTM-STD

they look the same ones 4 valve and 5.50cc and the 2 valve is 5.00cc, at $300 I am surprised how cheap that is.

onesmartidiot

Would I want new connecting rods or will stock be fine?

Apeiron

2 or 4 valve reliefs doesn't make any real difference. Your stock rods would be fine. If you wanted to, you could have them resized with ARP bolts, but you don't need it for only 300 HP.

onesmartidiot

ok, the 2 valve is cheaper, and only looses .50 cc so I doubt id even notice.

I thought about what I said about beefing it up as much as possible, but I only drive it 2 maybe 3k miles a year... so we will just stay stock on the rods.

My buddy said it would be a good idea to have the cyl walls honed out, would this be a good idea? it would be nice to have it dipped and perfectly clean too...

Apeiron

The walls must be honed for new rings to be seated.

onesmartidiot

ok, i think i have enough info to go on now and pull the motor and have it sent to the shop. Ill wait a month or so to order the heads and pistons incase someone brings up a better solution.

now to learn how to put pistons in... lol

bluers91

Since your building a 305 you may want to mill those heads to keep compression or look for some 059 vortecs with the smaller 58cc chambers.

torque_is_good

the shop may tell you that you need to have it bored if the ridge is too much or there is too much wear. That would be a bore and hone

Once you get the block dipped then you need new cam bearings. The shop should probably do that for you as well.

Since the block will be "dipped", then you want your crank inspected as well as the mains.

Do you see where it's heading? If you are just trying to keep a motor running then ridge ream, hone and praafter the new rings are installed.

Unless you are good with ice, a torch and have quick reflexes, then have the shop put the pistons onto the rods and inspect the rods.

It sounds like fun to "rebuild" an engine but your goal appears to be performance vs keeping the motor chugging for another year. If that is really the case, then do it correctly.

your engine is carb'd so you are one of those cases where a new Goodwrench long block for $2,000 might just make sense. Or, spend a couple months calling machine shops looking for engines where the owner could not pay and the shop just wants to sell the engine to get cash.

onesmartidiot

How does that make any more sense than working with what I have? I have someone who will be working on it while I help/ watch, once the bottom end is balanced and assembled, I can go from there. And I have priced this under $2000 to keep the original block in my car....

bluers91

I think the point is that you could probably spend less, have more cubic inches & more power with much less hassle.

onesmartidiot

right, which if I wasnt building a 305 would make more sense.

I'm just trying to be the one guy in town who hasnt yanked a 305 in favor of a 350. I know it will cost more but the point is I want the motor to stay in the car, while keeping a 305ci displacement.

Most would say its stupid or crazy, but I think it would be cool and have taken in enough information to know 300+hp is definately do-able.

And dont take this as an arguement, I'm just making sure the original concept is understood.

freaky

thats what i'm doing also except i'm gonna turbo the little 305 an see what i can get out of her this year . it would be easy to throw a bigblock im an have goobs of horse power . i'm also gonna stay with the tbi for all of this which most people think is stupied but thats what i want to do mine . so with that i say good luck to you an i'm eager to read how your build goes .

torque_is_good

assumptions I've read from your posts. If my assumptions are incorrect then please provide all of the details

you assume

you can get away with just a honing

can simply re-ring without risk of breaking a ring on the ridge because you should have bored instead of trying to ream and hone

your rings will seal correctly because again, you assume no wear in the cylinders


you can dip a block without screwing up your cam bearings

you are building for performance and are just going to slap on new main bearings and use the crank without any machine work done to it

it's a piece of cake to press fit your pistons to the rods

your deck of the block doesn't need work

I don't know what was your budget for head work but you assume plentiful flow from the stock heads. You allowed no dollars for cylinder head porting

I was very very very fortunate to find a machine shop through a friend who is rebuilding my L03 305 for $1300 including parts. The local shop wanted $1700 for labor (including valve job) but I needed to reassemble the engine and purchase the parts. That would have pushed me well north of $2,000.

For $1300 on my restoration, I will have a nicely rebuilt 305 TBI. If i was going into the $2500 range, then I would have repowered. A used engine was not an option for me. I'm also having my working 700R4 rebuilt for $400 so I will have a new drivetrain (newish) for $1700.

So, IMHO, you need to open your eyes as wide as possible, get some real sound advice and COSTS from a machine shop and then perform your own cost-benefit analysis.

Again, since your project is for performance, one of those GM Goodwrench 290HP long blocks for $2k might be a good balance for you. You are going to be shocked at the true cost of having machine work done that should be done.