jamienoel

I have two pistons that are fried and I'm too poor to buy a complete set, but trying to find pistons with the shallow oil grooves seems impossible.

Does anyone know where I can get two pistons with the shallow oil grooves, or am I screwed?

It's a 1993 350 TBI truck engine that was made in Canada.

Can I just buy two .200 pistons with individual ring sets and use the shallow kit for the rest? Different weights?

Why is it easy to find rings for the shallow oil groove pistons, but not the piston itself?

Anyone have a couple cheap ones laying around? They don't cost much at the parts store, but they are not able to get the shallow, although I haven't tried NAPA yet.

I need this engine put together soon because I have a rod in mine that isn't going to last much longer.

If I have to, I'll just get a standard .200 piston and have it pressed in one of the rods with a fried piston to replace the one that's knocking in mine and just reuse those pistons with new standard rings.

The block I'm trying to put rings in has a good crank, but the one in my car is probably screwed and the engine is using oil. The old one was rebuilt once before and I'm told it took the standard oil rings.

Thanks!

jamienoel

I guess this is a head scratching situation?

Damon

This one is ringing a bell for me. I've run into it before. If my foggy memory serves, I recall they're shallow rings (and also metric????) Can't compress (standard) oil rings into the ringlands when you go to install them in the bores becuase they require shallow rings there, right? And since you need to replace the pistons just having the right rings for them won't do you much good, right?

If this sounds like your situation, here's where we ended up after all the shouting and frustration....... either buy stock factory replacement pistons or go with aftermarket pistons that use standard rings.

In our case it was a relatively recent model GM crate motor (350 universal replacement motor) that needed new rings. Discovered the need for shallow rings when standard rings would not compress enough to get down into the bore. A bit of research and some measurements of various pistons led us to the conclusion that the oil control ring grooves on the stock pistons where shallow and required shallow rings. (Standard compression rings worked fine, strangely enough). Certainly didn't expect to find this problem with an old-school 350 replacement motor even if it was built within the last few years! Apparently they DID update the guts of the motor even though everything about it's specs looked like any other small block 350 dating back 25+ years.

In the end our solution was to buy aftermarket stock replacement pistons plus standard rings. Don't recall exactly how we got to that end point but the circumstances led us to that solution. Somewhere in the details it was like your situation- finding the right pistons and rings to go together turned into the adult version of a scavenger hunt and we just went with what we knew would fit together.

Oh yeah, it's coming back to me now!

In your case maybe spending a pittance on a complete set of new aftermarket stock replacemet pistons (that will take standard rings) makes even more sense than it did with our engine, even though our pistons were totally reusable and you need at least 2 new ones.

If you are overboring the block, just go aftermarket with everything using standard pistons that take standard ring sets. If you are not overboring the block maybe you could find another junked 350 truck engine (from about 1990-up to the late 90s Vortec engines use the same oddball pistons as yours) and swipe a few pistons out of it. Pistons rarely go bad so you're likely to find at least 2 good ones out of 8!

jamienoel

I was wondering if I could simply buy two standard groove pistons with individual deep groove rings and use the shallow ring kit on the rest?

I called the local machine shops hoping to find a couple pistons, but they scrap them after doing upgrades. They should keep a few around because they are worth more than scrap value.

The engine in the car is an 89/90 350 (I should have written down the casting numbers for the exact year) and now I'm not 100% sure if it uses the standard .200 oil rings.

The old engine has a rod knocking, so if I do use those rods and pistons, I want to change it out of fear that the wrist pin is screwed.

So I have two engines with some good parts on each one, but it's the only car I have and I wanted to do the swap in one day so I didn't have to rely on my uncle to take me places, and if all that swapping has to be done, it probably can't be finished in one day. The 93 engine is in his garage all disassembled and he says he has no problem with it, but I still want it fixed ASAP.

I have money for rings and a couple pistons. I also have the money for a piston to use with my old engine's pistons and rods if I go that route, but a complete set of pistons is out of the question, unless I can find a used set really really cheap somewhere.

I'm just not sure what to do. I need my car, but since the guy lied about it and I found two pistons shot, I'm a little screwed.

I know the crank is shot in the old one and it's starting to use oil. The crank in the new block is pristine, as were the bearings.

Damon

Rod knock happens on the big end of the rod (the bottom of the rod where the bearings are). Even if those parts are screwed it's very unlikely that the piston and wrist pin would be damaged.

In other words, I think you have a good chance at playing "mix and match" with a combination of parts from the two engines (assuming they both use the same pistons).

I'm not a big fan of using mismatched pistons, even if the only difference is slallow vs. standard depth rings. BUT.... if you're running on a shoestring budget I can't see how it would hurt. If they are both the same style pistons (factory dished w/ 4-eyebrows) then you can interchange them, even if the rings they require are different. It will be a real Frankenstein, but it will work (and God help the poor soul who tears into the motor next to do a rebuild! He'll be scratching his head for weeks!!)

Apeiron

If you're going to mix and match, be very careful with the weights.

jamienoel

The car will be with me the rest of my life because my mom gave it to me the night before she died, but whatever is done, it will be documented

That's one of my fears.

Thanks guys!

Here's the pic of one damaged piston.

Damon

Yeah, that's roached all right! Good luck with the mix-n-match.

Agreed that piston weights should be at least close to eachother. It doesn't need to be perfect to the gram, but certainly within 10-15 is as far as I'd stretch it.

How to measure them on the cheap: digital postal scale with an option to weigh in grams. Available at Staples, Office Max, etc. It's all I've used for 15 years and it's never let me down.

jamienoel

I picked up the Sealed Power piston today and the sleeves are a little shorter, but slightly thicker than the 93 oem piston. They are very similar looking though.

jamienoel

Well here's an update!

I took the old + new piston and rod to the machine shop to have it swapped, but the guy said the weight was not compatible. Luckily he just did a .30 over job and still had the used oem pistons and they were the .200's! I had a slight difficult time trying to explain exactly what had happened and what we were trying to do between the two engines and how the grooves are different depths, and once he understood what I was saying, he took his micrometer thingy out and his were .200. Truthfully, I wish he had two .165 pistons. It would save a lot of work since we already cleaned them. That's bad... We cleaned the .165's up nice. We didn't know obtaining the .165 replacement pistons is not possible. I wish I had the money to simply buy all 8 new pistons (and the money to have them swapped) because it sure would save a lot of trouble. But then the .165 rings cost $20 more, so I'm saving a little this way. Isn't that strange? There is less material/metal, but cost $20 more.

He didn't charge me for the piston and accepted $7 for swapping.

He asked for $12, but I only brought $7.00 because that's what he said on the phone, but he thought I was going to have him swap 2. Since I could not find the .165 pistons anywhere to replace them, I only needed one .200 to replace the bad one in the old engine and his minimum is $12.

I'm going to take him the $5.

Perhaps he'll be easy on me in the future should I need something done. I didn't know it took two people to do it; he had his wife help him.

When I didn't have the $12 with me, I told him I had to go to my car and get my debit card, but he didn't want to do it for $12 because of high swipe fees or something? Now I can return the new piston and get my $16 back, so I'm doing well. Hell, I should just give him the whole $16 since he gave me a perfectly matched used one. It doesn't even have a carbon buildup, so it was well taken care of.

He used the press to take the old one out, but said when putting the new ones in, you don't want to press them. He heated the end of the rod with a torch, handed the torch over to his wife, put the piston up to it and simply slid the pin in place without any force.

That was totally wild! It just slipped right in, but he said you only have like a half of a second to do that. Just before his wife took the torch, she said "you only have one shot at it." He could have pressed it back out and tried again had he failed, but he said pressing them can sometimes screw the aluminum up, although it may never show any problems. He simply doesn't like doing it.

But I learned something today!

Why did GM do that? Is it because it was made in Canada?

Apeiron

They maybe make 1 shallow set for every 100,000 conventional sets. More common parts are always cheaper.

It's normal to use heat. The safe way to do it is with an electric rod heater speficially for the purpose instead of a torch.

GM started using pistons with metric rings sometime around 1990. It never became popular with aftermarket piston manufacturers. Their existing designs were just fine and there was no reason to change them.

jamienoel

My car troubles are allowing me to learn things I otherwise would have never known.

jamienoel

I was examining the piston he gave me and he didn't get the rod in direct center of the pin. It moves sideways all the way in both directions, but it seems weird. I hope that isn't a problem.

Apeiron

You can't put the rod in the exact center of the pin, or else you'd have both rods trying to sit in the middle of the crank journal. The left-side rod goes to the front, and the right-side rod goes to the rear.

Damon

Hold on a second. You put the rod back in the SAME POSITION it came out of. If it was the #3 rod it goes back on the #3 hole, period. Unless you want to run the risk of throwing the balance off even further. Don't worry about the wrist pin being a very slight bit off-center. Won't hurt a thing.

FYI- the cylinder bores are offset left bank vs. right bank by the thickness of one rod. So everything stays centered.

With most (not all) pistons there is a front and back. There will be a notch in the piston face if that's the case with your factory pistons. The notch always points to the FRONT of the engine. Likewise, on the rod the bearing tangs always point towards the OUTSIDE (oil pan rail) of whatever bank they are installed in.

WHAT THIS MEANS TO YOU: You must make sure that BOTH the piston and rod are installed in the proper orientation. It is very possible to install the piston the wrong way on the rod so that you can't get them both in the proper orientation (either the rod is right but the piston is backwards or vice-versa). In which case you have no choice but to press the pin back out, flip the piston around 180* and re-press the pin.

For the novice, this WILL trip you up, guaranteed, the first time you try to do it. For the pro (like the guy you took the parts to to swap the pistons) they should have taken note of the orientation before pressing them off so they put the new piston on in the same orientation. They're wise to this kinda stuff since they live it every day. However, it does NOT mean that you shouldn't check yourself during assembly!! Even pros make mistakes.

jamienoel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon

Hold on a second. You put the rod back in the SAME POSITION it came out of. If it was the #3 rod it goes back on the #3 hole, period. Unless you want to run the risk of throwing the balance off even further. Don't worry about the wrist pin being a very slight bit off-center. Won't hurt a thing.
FYI- the cylinder bores are offset left bank vs. right bank by the thickness of one rod. So everything stays centered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon

With most (not all) pistons there is a front and back. There will be a notch in the piston face if that's the case with your factory pistons. The notch always points to the FRONT of the engine. Likewise, on the rod the bearing tangs always point towards the OUTSIDE (oil pan rail) of whatever bank they are installed in.
WHAT THIS MEANS TO YOU: You must make sure that BOTH the piston and rod are installed in the proper orientation. It is very possible to install the piston the wrong way on the rod so that you can't get them both in the proper orientation (either the rod is right but the piston is backwards or vice-versa). In which case you have no choice but to press the pin back out, flip the piston around 180* and re-press the pin.
For the novice, this WILL trip you up, guaranteed, the first time you try to do it. For the pro (like the guy you took the parts to to swap the pistons) they should have taken note of the orientation before pressing them off so they put the new piston on in the same orientation. They're wise to this kinda stuff since they live it every day. However, it does NOT mean that you shouldn't check yourself during assembly!! Even pros make mistakes.

Besides the notch, there is an F on the side of the pistons. He put it on correctly because the rods and caps were stamped (in order) with a punch.

Also keep in mind that this is a different/prestige crankshaft.

Got started on removing external parts and bolts and all that's left is the wiring harness, fuel lines, distributor, TB and it's ready to pull! My uncle is 64 and i don't have much strength for some of this stuff, but he gave me my very own cheater bar. lol If only I had money.

Why do they use Torx bolts on certain holes of the accessory mounts on front? My uncle says they are getting replaced.

jamienoel

Got the engine out and saw something strange...

Before the engine was pulled, my uncle wanted to discover which rod was knocking so it could be changed in case the pin was also bad. To discover which one it was, he removed one plug wire at a time.

When he disconnected the #2 wire, it knocked continuously, but when it was taken apart today, the number #2 didn't look bad, but the #1 bearing was definitely shot.

What?

Also, there is a high spot/groove between rods on the crank, so the crank is definitely worn.

We also noticed that one of the pistons was apparently changed because it had a smaller front notch and "STD" stamped on top.

I'm just wondering what to do now after seeing both bearings and how it was knocking. I only had one piston swapped for use with the new engine since there was only one rod knocking in the old, but now I'm not sure if a pin could be damaged on either, although the oil pressure would drop after it was warm, but I don't want to put one back in if there is a chance it has a bad pin. It sucks being poor.

Another thing that looks strange is the exhaust valves on the right head; three are red.

They are 305 heads and it's a 350 block and we know it was running a little lean because the injectors were not changed from original, but red on top? I'm going to do a search and see if I can find out what causes that.

jamienoel

I have discovered that my car is trying to kill me!

I'm just not the mechanic type, but can't afford to have someone else do it. The engine is back in and most everything is hooked up AND IT FOUGHT ME EVERY STEP OF THE WAY!!!

I'm lucky to be able to find information here, and the Haynes book helps a little.

We had some problems with the pistons from my old block. One had a chunk out on the top oil ring groove, another had a chunk out in a compression groove and another had a cracked sleeve. We found that the Sealed Power pistons are actually comparable to the weight of the OEM pistons, but the machine shop guy didn't have a scale and just visually inspected them and said they were not compatible, so we weighed them at my uncle's after he pounded out the one with the cracked sleeve. No we didn't reuse the same rod. lol So I had to buy two more pistons and have them swapped to good rods.

The old engine was not rebuilt correctly because the #1 rod had a replacement piston with the large side touching the inner side of the #2 rod instead of against the counterbalance. When they swapped the piston, they put it in the wrong direction, so we made sure we lined everything up correctly by using the surplus rods from the new engine before swapping out two metric pistons with the Sealed Power pistons.

The old crankshaft was toast! There were high spots between the rods and it was very noticeably worn. I guess that's why the oil pressure went to 0 when sitting in traffic after it was warm? Also, the bearings on the old crank were badly worn to the to the copper.

Had to buy a new oil pressure sender because the old one was leaking in the shell somewhere.

Got most of it back together and then discovered the water pump was leaking. It was changed 8-10 years ago and I thought it was bought at AutoZone with a lifetime warranty, but they couldn't find it in their computer. I’m out of money so we just used the one from the 93 truck. The only difference in water pumps are the studs used for the clutch fan on the truck, whereas the Camaro uses bolts. Didn’t bother taking out the studs because the nuts worked just fine. I’m keeping the bolts for future use. I was SO thinking about taking the electric fan out and sticking the truck fan in there!!! lol. It probably wouldn't clear though.

I actually set the valves correctly and they don't chatter! I read that you simply make sure it's on a compression stroke with both valves closed, get the push rods to the point of no play and then go a half turn. Rotate and adjust in firing order or just do a visual on the lifters until all are done.

We had to remove the distributor and accidentally got it 180 out. Then we had to turn the distributor almost all the way counterclockwise to get it to run, so we jumped it a tooth the wrong way and had to turn it all the way to get it started, but tomorrow we're going to advance it by 2 and it should be correct.

It did fire up and idle fairly normal, but I only ran it about 10-15 seconds. It smoothed out, but we need to fix the timing.

Oil pressure went to 40-45 at idle.

If the weather is good, it’ll be on the road tomorrow!

I was worried about the engine because it was extremely tight after the rebuild, but it seems okay. Starter turns it well and it idled normal, although I didn't run it long enough to know much. I still can’t get over how thick and gloss black the crud was on every intake valve, but it scraped off easy. The valve seals must have been badly worn. We used a drill and cut off screwdriver to pre-oil, although the bearings were generously oiled when installed.

Talk about a Frankenstein engine!

350 block, crank and cam from a 93 truck.

350 Pistons from the old 89/90 truck engine along with some new Sealed Power pistons.

Original 89 LO3 heads. Isn't that wild?

93 truck water pump with the fan studs left in place.

It's my very own FrankenMaro!

If I ever hit the lottery, I'm going to have a 1,000 hp engine put in.

In the meantime, I'll be happy if it just gets me to the store and doctor's office.

Damon

Congratulations. Glad to hear you got it running. Amazing what will interchange if you do a little research, isn't it?

Write down what parts you used and in which cylinder. You are guaranteed to fail the memory test a year from now!

jamienoel

Thanks! I never want to do this again.

One thing that bummed me out was that we paid $16 for each piston and the machine shop said they could get all 8 for $65.

jamienoel

Well here's another update.

The truck water pump is bad, so it's still sitting at my uncle's and I'm getting a brand new with a lifetime in a little bit. I used some coupon codes an got it for $16!

For a couple more I could have gotten the high volume pump, but have heard horror stories about heater cores.

It was idling okay and after warm up, the oil pressure at idle was just below 30.

What is normal?

Apeiron

10 psi per 1000 RPM or better is acceptable.

jamienoel

I guess I didn't run it enough the other day because today it was more like 8-10 at idle. That scared me.

No knocking and sounds good! Another thing that scared me was the engine overheating. I remembered reading about possible air pockets, so the only thing I could think to do was turn the heater on and run the engine to a steady 3500-4,000 RPMs and it worked because the temp dropped to normal and was fine after that. I guess the thermostat wasn't opening?

I hope it didn't hurt the engine, but still no knocking and I drove it home tonight! About 12 miles from my uncle's and it did fine.

Something else I discovered was the check valve connected on the rear of the intake was not working. It's the one that goes to the cruise and heater control. I accidentally broke off the one for the cruise and decided to check and see if the valve was working and it was like a straw, so I bought an identical one at Advance Auto and the engine doesn't die down, hesitate or try to die when you let up on the gas.

Before tonight, the engine would try to die and then recover when letting up on the gas. It actually seems kind of weird that it doesn't do that now. Sometimes it would even stall, but now it just drops to idle without dipping.

I guess with the check valve not working, it was back flowing from the cruise and heater control causing it to try to die? I dunno... I just know it doesn't do it anymore.

I'm happy with the way it's running. I love the info I find here; I've learned a lot from you guys!

I never want to do this again, but since I'll have the car for life... Let's hope I am able to just simply pay someone else to do it by then! lol

I need to do a little fine tuning and will go to my other uncle's who has a timing light to get it synced. This uncle gave it to my other uncle and I forgot to borrow it.

I should have taken pictures with each step because it was an experience! I swear some of you would shake your heads. Especially the piston problems which was a total pain. It smoked like hell the first time it started, but I did put a good bit of oil on the piston rings before putting them in. It doesn't smoke now.

jamienoel

Wanted to give everyone an update.

I've put over 150 miles on the engine now and it's still running ok, but I'm really getting concerned with the oil pressure.

After warm-up and idle it's now going to the red and only goes to 30psi when the RPMs get to 35 and above.

When the car is cold (been in the 20's) the pressure is almost 60.

This really worries me because it seems like it should be a little higher, but there is no knocking, so I don't know what's going on.

I'm using Quaker State 10W30. Is that a sucky oil?

I keep checking the level to make sure everything is ok and it's still fairly clean and full.

I can't believe how well it's running with all the mix and matched pistons, along with a couple rods from the 93.

I'm also trying to figure out why my temp is going almost to the red and then dropping quickly to normal and stays normal after that. I followed all instructions on how to burp it, but I did have a Buick V6 that did the same exact thing. I have a thread in the cooling forum.

It has a new oil sending unit, so I just wonder if it's the in dash gauge not displaying correctly, but then why would it show about 60 when cold?

Perhaps I should switch to Valvoline?

Apeiron

What were your bearing clearances when you rebuild it?

jamienoel

Unfortunately we didn't check. It was kind of like an emergency "make run" situation.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

With the stock AC (Im assuming you have it) and heater valve, little coolant flows thru the engine when the heat isnt on and its first started. The net result is that there is a surge of hot coolant when the t-stat does open. Simple solution is to drill two small holes in the T-stat to let it bypass some coolant and open sooner in response to teh coolant heating up in teh block and heads.

It sould also be a sign of a bad or sticking t-stat as well.

Those are the two most likely causes.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Have you checked the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge? The one in the dash isnt exactly super accurate.

jamienoel

The ts was just changed about a couple months before the tear-down. As I was saying in the coolant forum, this never happened until I used the rubber o-ring that came with the gasket set. I figure a little coolant was leaking around the ts flange before because it took forever to warm up and ran overall cooler. With a rubber seal now in place, it's behavior is totally different than it used to be.

Do I drill one each (total of two) 1/8" holes on opposite sides of the flange? Or does it matter exactly where the holes are?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...variation.html

Note: After my first post in the cooling forum and I drove the car again, I noticed that it no longer goes to the red, but rather the next line down from it and then drops.


As far as the engine itself.... Both my uncle's hearing aids had to be sent in for repair and when we were trying to get the distributor set to a spot it would fire, him not hearing very well gave it so much gas that you would think we had a race car engine in the garage. It revved so high and was so loud that it scared me and I jumped away from the car. He did this several times and one time I walked around to the driver's side and the RPM needle was pegged. He scared the hell out of me! I tried getting him to not rev it so high, but with his hearing... I had no idea he was going to do that. I thought the engine would fry before I got to drive it.

This was with the first start. Hope it didn't damage the bearings, but I did at least pre-oil / prime it with a drill + screwdriver setup.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Its pretty hard on an engine to do that. But, since the oil pump was primed, it likely had oil right away, so it may not have done anything.

Is it still showing low oil pressure at idle? That may be a sign of fuel contamination, or excessive clearances allowing the pressure to bleed off at low engine speeds.

As for the t-stat, yeah, two small holes drilled around the periphery of the t-stat housing to allow coolant to flow past the wax actuator and open it sooner. Some high end t-stats already have this feature built in so they open sooner.

jamienoel

It's still pretty low at idle, just inside the red. The oil sending unit is new and the pressure usually goes to around 30 when driving, but it's not following the 10psi per 1000 RPM rule.

Another uncle said that Quaker State is crappy oil, so I don't know. The oil is still fairly clean with only minor signs of darkening and I have over 200 miles on it now.

Still no knocking.

Could the valve adjustment have any major effect on oil pressure? I set them the way I read on here somewhere. I made sure each lifter was down by turning the crankshaft in sequence, and once double verifying they were down, I got the push rods to no play with only slight friction when twisting and then went a half of a turn. Now I read somewhere that you should go 3/4 turn. They are not chattering though. These are the non roller lifters (+cam) from the original 93 LO5 truck engine. Cold pressure (temps in the 20's) is still close to 60 psi.

I'm going to drill the holes in the t-stat since it makes sense. I now know that not previously having the rubber seal is why the temp was gradual, took forever to warm up and ran overall cooler. Must have been a moderate flow around the flange from the extra play in the absence of the o-ring.

My car just totally wiped me out because of all the troubles we ran into and I don't have the money for a high end stat right now, so I'll just drill the holes. At least the gasket is only a couple bucks, although I was told I don't need to use one because the rubber o-ring will seal it. I still want to use one.

Because of the unexpected problems we ran into, it ended up costing me a few hundred dollars more than planned and there was no Christmas here this year, but everyone understands that transportation is more important. I can get them gifts any time of the year and I'm grateful to once again not have to rely on someone else to take me places.

What was suppose to be a simple head / engine swap turned into a nightmare. I'm glad my uncle talked me into checking the pistons before swapping heads or I would have had all kinds of trouble. Better to put out the money now than have the engine in and have to pull it again.

It's been a long time since I was in a no transportation situation and I hope it never happens again.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Next time you change the oil, drain the oil into a large pan, and examine it to see how much particulate is in it. If youve already given it its customary after break-in oil change, there should be a small ammount of very fine particulate from normal wear in the current oil. If it looks like metallic paint with lots of swirling when you agitate the oil, then its indicative of a bearing going bad. The clearances opening up with a stock pump would cause the pressure to drop at low speeds.

The factory spec for the lash is 1 turn. Ive found that many of the aftermarket lifters demand a full turn, nothing less, or they clatter like hell. The stock ones seem to be ok with a half turn or so. If they dont tick, its fine. If you rev the engine and hear the lifters ticking on and off as the RPMs come up, then youll need to go to a 3/4 or full turn of lash.

If you have a good t-stat housing with the o-ring, that will be enough. Just make sure you clean the intake gasket surface real well. I have one with o-ring only, and it works better than a gasket as it doesnt seep with the newer coolant formulations.

If you have one of the economy type housings, its probably better to go with a gasket.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Did you put all the tappets back in the same place from where they came? Flat tappets establish a wear pattern when theyre used, so they become matched to the cam lobe theyre riding on, and cannot be relocated, or reused on another cam. Also, did you check the lifters to be sure that the bottoms are still slightly crowned? Flat tappet lifters have a ~.001" crown on them so they rotate. Once the crown goes, the lifter and cam lobe follow shortly thereafter as the lifter foot just drags itself across the lobe. Also, did the cam lobes look like they where in good shape?

If you cant answer yes to all of these, then you risk rolling a lobe. The cheap edelbrock performer plus cam kits at pep-boys and such are a quick way to get you going again if you need a cam. I had one for a long time, and it held up pretty well with stock springs.

You should also use ZDDPlus with a flat tappet, even with stock springs. There is less zddp in newer oils, and it can lead to failure with flat tappet cams. Just add a 1/2 bottle at each oil change. Its only available online as its not legal for use in emmissions controlled cars.

jamienoel

The originals from the donor block were still like new and they were kept in their original positions. The cam was also in good shape, but since this was basically a emergency piece together job, I'm going to change it and the lifters this coming summer when I should have a little extra money.

Is the performer cam kit you mentioned compatible with the original programming on the ECM chip? Doesn't it cost a fortune to have one programmed?

Apeiron

They're compatible. You can get the exact same generic cam from Melling for a fraction of the price that you pay for the Edelbrock "name".

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, for some reason I thought you where carbed. No, its actually not compatible with TBI w/o tuning. It will run, but not as well as it should, and the engine would have a rich idle and be lean at high RPMs. Since the stock lifters all went back to where they need to be and where in good shape, you probably have some time to shop around for a cam, although the block tolerances can alter the lifter/cam contact, so they probably should be replaced in the near future.

This is the one you want with the stock TBI: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-1101/

I can say from experience that the profile there in a 350 will work ok with the stock ECM. Used GMs version that came in my old goodwrench 350 years ago with the stock TBI, and it ran pretty well.

Get that and the GMPP lifters if your budget allows you to: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12371044/

Those together will actually be more than the edel kit if I recall (been a long time since I used one of those), but youll get better more reliable lifters with it that are less likely to give you trouble. I used the lifters that came with my last cam kit from isky, and one had a defective metering disk, which resulted in a constant valve tap as the lifter never pumped up. The quality control with those aftermarkets isnt quite up to snuff so it can be kind of a crap shoot when you use the generics. Ive used the GM ones several times, and have never had an issue with them.

Alternatively, you can just get summits in-house brand cam kit and generic lifters for about $100: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-K1101/ Someone may even have it for cheaper than that.

I dont know if the source matters much with the generic lifters, as there only seems to be a few companies that supply them, and all the cam grinders throw them in with the kits under their own brand name. From my experience, theyre more noisy than the GM ones, and not as durable, but they held up ok with stock springs.

Just make sure you run some ZDDP additive and break it in properly for 20-30 minutes at 2k, and the engine should be good to go.

jamienoel

Thanks for all the info. Wanted to share how bad the front main bearing was/is. Can not really tell in the picture, but these groves are very deep.

jamienoel

It's a TBI budget special! lol

The block is a 350 and the heads are 305s from the 89 engine, so it's a goofy setup, which is why I'm hoping a cam will help with the smaller valves. Open wider to let more exhaust or whatever?

It's still running without a knock and with continuous lower oil pressure that now dips in the red a little at idle, but not all the way to zero. Just inside the red.

Having some other strange problems as well. Sometimes I think my car is on morphine one day and cocaine the next and when it's really bad, probably some extacy. Whatever that is. lol

Definitely has some intermittent issues. I'm told it's most likely due to an electrical problem, so I'll try to resolve it when the weather warms up a bit.