Hey guys I have a set of 882 heads, no porting, no polishing, no cleanup, just have 2.02 and 1.6 valves in them...

They are currently on:

1970 chevy 350 4bolt main bored .060 over
Stock length rods with Speed Pro flattop pistons with 4 valve reliefs in each
Crane cam .500 lift, 246 duration (at 50), 106 deg overlap
Standard FelPro blue head gaskets (4.125 hole, .040 comp. thickness)
1.5:1 full roller rockers
standard length 3piece pushrods
I am running a weiand xcelerator with a 2"-4hole spacer
Demon Street demon 750 carb, double pumper with electric pump
Accel HEI ignition with MSD electronic control module
Accel 8.8mm race wires
Heddman shorty headers


I ran a 13.59@97 mph at new england dragway, best time ever...

As i have been doing research, the 882 heads were pretty much the crappiest heads ever built (almost) with big combustion chambers (76cc) and small intake runners, so they effectiely work like blowing into the small end of a funnel- small amount of air getting forced through a small hole into a big chamber.

I did some research and found a set of 416 305 heads that i bought really cheap with only like 40k miles on them and i plan on doing mild port and polish on them to replace the 882's. I know these heads will raise my compression from 9:1 to about 10.5:1 which is fine.

My thought are that if I can get the intake runners somewhere around 180cc and only mildly deshroud the valve in the combustion chambers to give them a nicer flow, that i should have a greater head velocity (fills a small area faster) so i should have gobs of torque, but may lose some top end.

My engine peaks at about 6500 now with the 882, and if i only peak at about 6200 or so with the 416 i will still be happy.


What are your thoughts? The motor is in a 1980 chevy c-10 pickup 3000 stall, TH350 with 4:10 gears and 26.5" tires.

 

Welcome aboard thirdgen.org.

1.94" intake valves, 1.60" exhaust valves, gasket matching and smoothing/port clean-up, short-side radius smoothing, basic bowl clean-up, "air foil"ing the guides, and valve de-shrouding if necessary.

Your max RPMs shouldn't change.

Should be a decent power improvement.

 

I second what kid typed.

 

wow thanks guys! I was expecting the typical "those heads are crap buy aluminum" response! I like doing things the old school way! Buying 'good' junkyard parts and making as much with them as I can! Plus, I don't have $800 bucks to drop on heads. I got the 416's off a guy for $50- only have like 40k on them, and they were clean as a whistle!

Thanks again! Keep the replies coming- anyone have any pics of their ported heads?

 

I took a bunch of pics while I was porting my 416 heads. I'll try and post them up when I get home from work later today.

 

Thanks!! You have them on a 305 or a 350?

 

They are on a 350. When I was building the engine, I had the exact same choice to make that you have. I had a pair of 882 heads and a pair of 416 heads. I checked on here and the consensus was to use the 416 heads so that is what I went with.

Here's the link to my original thread, might have some info in it you can use:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...571-heads.html

Full Engine Specs:
Early 70's 2-Bolt Main SBC, casting # 3970010
Stock Crank, Rods, & Dished Pistons(16CC Dish)
Head Gasket .039" Compressed
Deck Height .025"
416 Heads, Stock 1.84"/1.5" Valves(For Now), Ported to 167cc Intake and 59cc Exhaust, 58cc Chamber
Calculated Compression Ratio of 9.2
Cam .416 Exhaust/.408 Intake, 110 LSA, Unknown Duration
Fed by a Holley 4160 650CFM Vac Secondary

Estimated HP/TQ using Desktop Dyno: 301/386

Engine pulls great off the line due to the low torque peak(3000), does tend to run out of breath at higher speeds but still pulls good in 5th gear @ 70MPH on the highway

 

I'm pretty sure I could have removed some more material in the runners while porting it, but its a time-consuming process and I was running out of time. I had to get the swap finished and the car back on the road for the summer as the engine in my truck was having problems with oil pressure and needed rebuilt badly.

I will eventually go back in and port them some more and have larger valves installed. I may also have the guides cut for more lift, haven't decided on that yet though. I know I should have done everything at once, but the only machine shop in my area was backed up already and I was out of $$ anyhow.

 

How much lift can the stock heads handle?

 

I'm not 100% sure of that. I believe its in the neighborhood of .450-.460", but it will depend somewhat on the valves and valve retainers that you use.

I'm sure Atilla or Five7 would know for sure on that.

 

do you know what lift i can get with unmodified 416 heads? Will i have to machine them to accomodate my .500 lift cam?

 

.5" lift is too much for unmodified heads. Sorry, should have mentioned that. Cut the top of the guides for Teflon seals, and you'll get more valve travel and better stem seals at the same time.

This is assuming valve springs and retainers to match the cam.

Don't try to open up the ports beyond gasket matching and blending. You're more likely to do harm than improve them. Port volume is only an indicator of port flow, not proof of it.

 

Maybe the lift is why my motor started smoking a little after three years of occasional drag racing I think I will take them to a shop and have screw in studs put it and machined for higher lift.

5/17/10 EDIT: All 16 of my rubber umbrella valve stem seals being in my oil pan is why it smoked!!!

 

Ok, here are some pics of my heads. Pics are kinda dark as they were taken by shining a light through the port and using my cell phone.

First off, a look at the stock intake ports.

 

Here are the (mostly) finished intake ports. After these pics were taken, I went back in and removed the casting bumps along the roof and floor of the runners.

 

And here are the stock exhaust ports.

 

And the exhaust ports after the work. I left a lot of material there I think, but I was afraid of cutting into the guide and ruining the heads.

 

Better before-and-after on the exhaust ports.

 

OK, so i measured the clearance between the bottom of my spring retainer (as it will be installed with the 7degree locks in place) and the top of my positive valve stem seal, and I have between .0535 and .0543 on my valves.

So, the question is, is .035-.043 enough extra clearance between the valve retainer and the valve stem seal? I am putting "z28" springs in that have seat pressures of: 110lb @1.700" and 9lb @1.750" and open pressure of 325lb @1.200" and again, my cam is only a .500 lift (.333 lobe lift x 1.5 rockers = .500)

 

When you put the oil seals on there, you'll find your clearance is gone. Get the seals on, get a set of "plus fifty" locks, and measure again.

 

the seals were on there when i measured it... Why would I need +50 locks?

 

Here are some before pics of the first head

 

Here are some during pics

 

Here are some completed pictures

 

One more


These heads are pretty sweet! good water jacket castings, already have bronze guides, clearances were nice, well machined... Just needed some help. I can't wait to put them on, i will let you know what happens. Everyone said these heads aren't great for bored 350 with a 6500 rpm cam in it, but i will try it anyway. I have less than $225 invested in the heads, porting, and swap so...

 

And these are some pics of the 882 heads that are in my motor now--- UGLY!!!






I originally had roller tip rockers in the heads, but Jegs doesn't rate them for more than like 200LBS open pressure, and my springs are 325 or so... Two of the rollers fell off while i was drag racing once... I had to pull them off, peen the ends of the pins over to keep them together- I bought ProForm full roller rockers the next day.

I think the only good thing with these heads is that they have 2.02 intakes and 1.6 exhausts... Only problem is because the intake runners are like maybe 160cc, and the combustion chambers are 78cc the head velocity is really slow at low rpm- no torque... Also, the guy I got these from said they were decked, but i never measure the combustion chambers--- the engine runs too hot on the highway, and I hope it is because of the heads (these ARE 400 heads). i have a 3 core brass radiator with 2 12" cooling fans on it. I want this thing to be an absolute growler off the bottom end and hopefully run a little cooler- the water jackets in these heads have no flashing in them, and they look like they have improved cooling capacity!!

 

You got way to carried away with the port openings and did not do enough where it counts deep in the port around the fat valve guide.
You only need to open the ports entrance/ exits to a felpro #1205 in and just a hair taller and wide than stock (ex). You do not want a round ex port exit. The roof of each port needs to be raised .100", the pushrod pinch point needs to be opened up, the floor only needs casting smoothing. Do not lower. You need to carve two strong flow paths around the valve guide and really slim down. streamline the guide boss in the port.
Then radius the short side and bowl port (hog the bowl under the valve to 88% of valve seat diameter.

for valve lift:
Shorten and machine the guide boss by .200" for high lift and .500 or .530" aftermarket posi seals . eliminate the stock head exhaust rotators and compensate with a shim stack +.015 +.030 .060 .105" total shim .

drill and roll pin the rocker studs and get some decent valve springs.
(lunati 73943 isky 205d 235d crane 99848 99846 .
Make sure the cam is installed correctly advanced on a 100 to 103 intake C/L
degree it and moved as nessessary with offset bushings.

distributor setup:
With the big cam you are running lock out the distributors mech advance curve and run full locked spark timing at idle 34-36deg.
This will improve the idle, throttle response 60 ft times and ET.

use champion RV8C or |Delco R42T plugs in your 416 heads.

Max valve size in these heads 1.94 x 1.60" a 2.02 does nothing for this head.

Again you have not done near enough around the guides in the ports. This is a critical flow area.

You can eliminate the pesky simaeased exhaust port heat/egr passages by melting down old cast pistons and poring the molten hot aluminum into the heat riser passage. Block the exit in the ex port with a shaped piece of sheet metal when poring. Remove and grind smooth. This stops power robbing scavedging cross talk between the center exhaust ports. Worth up to 40hp on a full race effort.

the truck needs a 3500++ stall and 4.56 gears Ditch the weiand accelerator intake get a performer rpm dual plane.

 

like this....

 

I don't think I got too carried away at the port openings. I wanted to gasket match them, smooth out all the castings, and make them flow better than stock. Anything is an improvement over the 882 heads i have on the truck now.

The exhaust ports are not round, i left the flat spot in the bottom to prevent (or help prevent) reversion

The bowl openings are about 85% or slightly more of the valve openings.

The flow path around the valve guides is pretty nice (i think) and i did not want to take too much material off around the valve guides. This is my first go-round with porting

The guide bosses have enough clearance between the posi seals and the spring retainers (When valves are shut and the seals are installed they have .535-.545 with the seals removed they have more than .563) and I bought all new retainers and locks without the stupid oil shield but i will shim the springs to compensate for those being gone.

The rocker studs were drilled and pinned from the factory

I have bought a set of Elgin "Z28 valve springs"
(seat pressure 110# @1.700" 90# @1.750")
(open pressure 325# @1.200")
(coil bind at 1.150")
The specs on these springs exceed the requirements that Crane gave with my cam

I always install my cam straight up-no advance or retard. I have never had an issue doing it that way and do not intend to change, plus it is more margin for error when i try to change what I have done in the past

I run the lightest advance springs I can on my distributor because it allows an easier startup with less timing, and the total advance is set to 37 right now- it hits full advance at 1800 RPM and I launch around 2200-2500 (I have run it to 42 without pinging - again before these heads... I imagine i will have to run a little less timing to keep from pinging with 93 octane gas)

I typically run a Bosch super copper plug because the ceramic area is shorter than an AC Delco plug, and i have tight clearance to my Headers- I may try an accel header plug this year.

I am still running 1.84 & 1.5 valves to keep velocity way up in the head ( i bought brand new valves and lapped them myself )

I am not going to fill in my EGR crossovers- I know it will hurt flow somewhat, but again I am just trying to get better than I have now- i am not making a full all time race only truck.

I did buy a Professional Products crosswind (air Gap dual plane) to replace the crappy Weiand- (I lost 1/2 second when i put that on!!)- I bought the professional product because it was a hell of a lot cheaper than Edelbrock, and it only was like 5-7 Ft Lb tq and less than 5-7 hp difference than the Edelbrock according to Chevy High Performance Magazine. (The truck ran best with a Holley Street Dominator and a 2" open spacer on it- Alas I sold that intake to my cousin, so thats why i bought this one.) I plan on running a 1 inch 4 hole spacer (as recommended by Barry Grant to match my Speed Demon 750 double pumper carb)

How come you didn't mention anything about deshrouding the valves? Or polishing the combustion chamber to minimize carbon buildup?

This truck is a dual purpose truck- I will not put a 3500 stall and 4:56 gears in it cause I drive to the track, race and drive home. If I had 4:56 I would kill the motor on the way there.

Perhaps if I trailered the truck to the track, and home i would make it all out race, but it is registered street legal truck, and I want to keep it streetable (which it barely is now).

I appreciate your thoughts. This build was meant to take as little money as possible to complete- So far I spent:

$50.00 for the heads with only about 50K miles on them.
$40.00 for grinding/sanding stuff
$15.00 for intake gaskets
$15.00 for the header gaskets
$30.00 for head gaskets
$20.00 for valve stem seals
$90.00 for valves, keepers, and springs

So around $260


My Motor ratings at the time I had the best intake setup on it were approx:
353 hp
371 tq (At the flywheel)
This based on my engine dyno program; it said i would do a 13.66 quarter mile at 98 MPH and I did a 13.59 @97 MPH


i am hoping to get my compression from 8.9:1 to about 10.3-10.6:1 and my engine program said I should have closer to 450hp and 450 tq and run a mid to high 12 sec quarter.

i will let you know how it runs. I intend to have it together to race next weekend.

 

Think again. You won't even get to 400 horses with the porting in those pics. Guides and short turns are everything. You made ALL the newb mistakes. You'd've been better off just polishing the exhaust ports and calling it quits.

 

Well, I guess we'll see won't we... The ET will tell.

I hate that everyone thinks a new poster doesn't know anything, and that even opening up the ports, smoothing them out, boosting compression will do nothing...

Again, WE'll SEE!!!!!

Anything is an improvement over the 882 heads i have on the truck now.

 

I don't even look to see if someone is a junior member or a senior member. Half the junior members turn out to be old dudes in their 50s or 60s who've been wrenching since the original Camaros.
I do know porting. I'm up there with Joe Mondello. In fact, back in '96, my first pair of Vortecs, done only by my feel, technique, experience and instinct,
surpassed what Mondello did after multiple trips to the flow-bench. And my swirl didn't suffer, either.
Noone's gonna believe your elapsed times unless you include video. Because otherwise you could be using someone else's time slip.
I'm not your enemy, I'm the most helpful guy here. I really have tried it all, too.

 

You seem bent on setting things up to make it convenient for you or suite your version of how things work best as opposed to what the engine wants to perform best. Like the spark advance and cam installed C/L.

Why do you post if you are not open to criticism? (for improvement)
I run that "crappy" Crosswind manifold on my 400 and have no problems clicking off 11sec ets. Can't be that bad. (Yes I have compared it to other manifolds on both 350's and 400's)

I have also done the ported 305 head on a 350 thing many times.
The 416 heads only need minor chamber deshrouding around the new larger valves. The resulting chamber ends up about 61-62cc.
The amount is about equal to the radius increase of the new valves (1.94x 1.60) about .050" max. The pics show the deshrouding. Those heads outflowed vortecs on the bench and ran great.

As said, post your new results. But if you really want to go faster you need to change things. Might want to go back and review the earlier posts for ideas that have been shown to work. (like dialing in the cam).

You got one thing right anything will be better than the 882's.

Good luck to you..... hope you do well.

 

Outflowed Vortecs? Maybe your worked exhaust ports did, but noone has ever been able to do it on the intake side then prove it with video. I call BS until you show it on you-tube.

 

No bs The heads shown flowed 234@28 on the bench. Vortecs on the same bench flow 228cfm.

These heads in the pics are not even my best effort on the 416's (242cfm@28")

Sorry no You tube videos. I tell you what: You post a authentic video on you tube that proves your porting effort out flowed Mondello's porting job or easier yet post a You tube vid with you and Joe in the same vid and then talk.

No BS, on my heads bud. I am not the only one to achieve these numbers on a ported 416 head. (And I won't name drop as to who that is.)

Yes, they outflow stock vortec heads on both the intake and exhaust.

 

you might not realize this, but there was no you-tube in '96. Dumbass.
Besides which, you're the one making the implausible claim. None of the mods here doubt much of anything I type, and I'm always vindicated in the end, because I keep it real. All we have from you is an allusion, you can't even give a name. Trying to save face that way is a sure way to lose it.
You only claim better peak flow, and don't even specify what lifts. 228 is about right for a Vortec at 0.400 and 0.500, but at 0.475, there's another 10 or so cfm to be had.
Are you claiming 234 at 0.475" or less? If not, you don't really win. How was the mid-lift flow?
I was a solid 4+ cfm better than Joe at every lift point. He never heard of me or my numbers, I was a nobody back then. But the day I saw his results in the magazine and dug out my results, that was the day I knew I have the knack. Since then, he has done better than either of our initial results, and so have I.
You can find videos all over the net showing ported Vortecs over 270 cfm. Not one video on earth of a ported 416 doing over 220 cfm.
The burden of proof is on you, not me. The mods here can tell I'm honest. I apologize for and admit my mistakes and the limits of my knowledge and experience. I'm not in doubt. You are.

 

I am well aware of the Mondello vortec head mag articles.
When I flow tested stock vortecs there was no + 10cfm at .475". 228cfm was it.
I have tested more than 1 set and know exactly what they flow in stock and ported form.

My 305 ported heads shown in the pics flowed 234 at 500 and .550" 218@.400"
Other ones I have done flowed even more. As much as 242cfm. The worst result I have gotten on a particular ported 416 head is 224cfm @.450" valve lift. All were with a 1.94" manley intake valve.
Some I have done with a 1.60 ex some with a 1.50 ex.

I also have ported vortecs and run them and have a video of that you can watch if you want. My ported vortecs flow real good and work (they make big power and torque). I do not make wild claims.

i do not port heads to get big flow numbers. I port them to make big horsepower and torque and go fast.

I have also ran ported 416's on 350's in this same car. i know what they will do. The actual performance on the motor, in the car is very comparable to stock as cast or mildly worked vortecs. I have run all three, stock vortec, ported vortec and ported 416's + 882's on the same 350 motor, in the same car.
A previous pair of ported 416's that flowed 238 cfm where an absolute scream on a high compression big solid race .550"+ cammed version of the same 350 in the same car.
These heads rock when done right.

I have yet to see a link to any of your so called required video proof of proof , any pictures of your work, any flow test, dyno tests or in car performance tests.

or even any mods jumping in to validate your claims.
Or any other evidence that backs up your implausable highly unlikely claim that you can port heads better than Mondello or .......... even the original poster in this thread. Or that your ported heads actually make any power.
Sorry but I call BS on your claims. Now its up to you to bone up with videos etc etc.
Wether You tube existed or not in 1996 is irrelevent. Where are your videos now bud. Put up or shut up.

Search for my vids on You tube using my user name. Thats my latest vortecs on the motor, in the car going down the drag strip. that my friend is where the rubber meets the road.

This car is a work in progress.
This not the only car I've done, Just the one I'm playing with now.
The 416's in my pics are presently being enjoyed by some guy on his 350 corvette.
When I do (rarely) sell a set of heads or in this case a complete motor with my ported heads I do so with a complete 100% money back performance satisfaction guarantee that that it will perform as I say it will or bring it back.
I have never had a set come back yet.
I do not make inflated claims.

 

I am well aware of the Mondello vortec head mag articles.
When I flow tested stock vortecs there was no + 10cfm at .475". 228cfm was it.
I have tested more than 1 set and know exactly what they flow in stock and ported form.

My 305 ported heads shown in the pics flowed 234 at 500 and .550" 218@.400"
Other ones I have done flowed even more. As much as 242cfm. The worst result I have gotten on a particular ported 416 head is 224cfm @.450" valve lift. All were with a 1.94" manley intake valve.
Some I have done with a 1.60 ex some with a 1.50 ex.

I also have ported vortecs and run them and have a video of that you can watch if you want. My ported vortecs flow real good and work (they make big power and torque). I do not make wild claims.

i do not port heads to get big flow numbers. I port them to make big horsepower and torque and go fast.

I have also ran ported 416's on 350's in this same car. i know what they will do. The actual performance on the motor, in the car is very comparable to stock as cast or mildly worked vortecs. I have run all three, stock vortec, ported vortec and ported 416's + 882's on the same 350 motor, in the same car.
A previous pair of ported 416's that flowed 238 cfm where an absolute scream on a high compression big solid race .550"+ cammed version of the same 350 in the same car.
These heads rock (for what they are and what it costs) when done right.

I have yet to see a link to any of your so called required video proof of proof , any pictures of your work, any flow test, dyno tests or in car performance tests.

or even any mods jumping in to validate your claims.
Or any other evidence that backs up your implausable highly unlikely claim that you can port heads better than Mondello or .......... even the original poster in this thread. Or that your ported heads actually make any power.
Sorry but I call BS on your claims. Now its up to you to bone up with videos etc etc.
Wether You tube existed or not in 1996 is irrelevent. Where are your videos now bud. Put up or shut up.

Search for my vids on You tube using my user name. Thats my latest vortecs on the motor, in the car going down the drag strip. that my friend is where the rubber meets the road.

The vortecs on this car are not ported to the max just to get a big flow number. They are ported to make power and go fast.
This car is a work in progress.
This not the only car I've done, Just the one I'm playing with now.
The 416's in my pics are presently being enjoyed by some guy on his 350 corvette.
When I do (rarely) sell a set of heads or in this case a complete motor with my ported heads I do so with a complete 100% money back performance satisfaction guarantee that that it will perform as I say it will or bring it back.
I have never had a set come back yet.
I do not make inflated claims.

To the origional poster:

Please post your results when you get the heads on a run them.
Would be interesting to see your results good or bad or....
I offer my critique etc only to give you ideas you can try. So you go faster, not to run your down. Good Luck.

 

F-BIRD'88,

OK, Ok... Sometimes I may not take criticism too well... But in your case, you were trying to help me but some others just try to make everyone else out to be a dumbass or that i don't know anything... I read a lot of books and talked to engine builders that i know and trust (i.e. the shops that bored my motor and installed the bearings fo rthe cam etc) before i attempted this, and knew it would not be the same quality job a shop would do... I did it in my garage with a 20 dollar knockoff dremel, and my Craftsman electric rotary tool.

You are right.. I do not like change sometimes.. The cam advance I have never done before- I don't always like trying new things... It's like going to a restaraunt and trying something you never had before- you make like it, you may hate it and it could make you sick... i apply the same philosophy to my motor, probably to a fault. Is the 3 degree advance a tested and true gain? that why the aftermarket timing sets have 3 or 4 degree advance in the gears?

I am willing to try advancing the cam, however if it doesn't help, it is a lot of work for me to change it back- my truck doesn't have enough room to drop the oil pan and access my timing chain, so i have to pull the motor, or at least lift it up a few inches.

I have been thinking of locking out my distributor for a while, but i notice that when I have the timing set higher than like 18 - 20 deg initial, it is really hard to start even with an MSD gear reduction starter and a 1000 CA battery so that is why i ran light advance springs and total timing of 37 degrees.

I never said the crosswind was crappy did I? I just said, the flow numbers were marginally smaller than the Edelbrock numbers. I bought it for price constraints (I got mine used only once on a dyno for $80 from ebay!!) and I like the way it looks plus i have had good luck with their products in the past.

I did go back and smooth out around my valve guides more, especially on the exhaust ports... I forgot that exhaust gas goes up from the combustion chamber, so I took any 'flat' off the bottom of the valve guide, and got it as smooth as I could with 1/4 " sanding rolls on my dremel flexi extension (pics soon).

Maybe my pictures are confusing as well. Yes, I did do quite a bit of gasket matching because the ports were significantly smaller than the size of my intake runners. I matched them to the intake gaskets which match the intake manifold- (I plan on using "High Tack" on the head side of the gasket to hold them in the place i want them while installing the intake- i have had good luck with this in the past.)
I know that gasket matching is only good for about 8 hp, but why not get that 8 hp? I want as much as i can get!!
The intake runners (besides the gasket match) are only ground to relieve the rough cast 'bumps' and stuff inside- I did not open the floor up much, and was not able to smooth the whole short side of the wall since i did not have long bits- (however, i know the intake runners need more turbulence anyway, i figured leaving some rough cast is good for it.)
Most of the work I did in the bowl was to get rid of the machined lip in the throat of the ports. I smoothed out the machined lip, and blended it into the port as well as I could then worked the Valve guides till there were no sharp edges on them. I know it serves best to machine a vein into the intake port bowl right below the valve to promote swirl, however this is my first attempt and I did not know how much material I had there to work with, so i erred on the safe side. - these heads did not have a vein to begin with, so i doubt I hurt the swirl any more- correct?
The exhaust ports I started to open up only about 1/8" below the throat, and i radiused the short side, and ground off the rough cast and radiused the valve guides to get rid of any flat surface. I sanded them to get a smoother finish so the soot won't stick as much inside the port. I gasket matched 3 sides of the original square port, again, leaving the bottom flat to held prevent reversion. The headers are still bigger than the exhaust ports (slightly) so it will help as well.

I expect a significant gain over the 882 heads.I pulled them off this weekend, and apparently the FelPro 7733PT2 head gaskets did not have big enough openings for my .060 over bore. Between the 3-4 and 4-6 cylinders, the gasket was blown... I mic'd the chamfer on the top of my cylinders, and the outer diameter was 4.124", and the gasket (before install) was 4.125" so when it compressed it overhung the chamfer! All of my rubber 'umbrella' valve seals were in my oil pump pickup too, so i was burning oil.
Also the 7733 gasket has 4 individual steel rings (one for each cylinder) so it was easier to blow out. I am buying the 1003 gaskets for this install, which will give me plenty of clearance at 4.166 bore , .041 compressed and the steel surrounding all four cylinders is common, so it should be a lot stronger. This gasket also has silicon around the water ports and larger holes for water ports which will hopefully help me run cooler. I put positive locking valve seals on this time as well...

F-BIRD'88 thanks for being understanding- All i really wanted was results from someone that had done similar work, and had used these heads on a 350. One of my friends has these same heads with similar work done on a 305 in his jeep that has less about 480 lift cam and has close to 350 hp!!

I hope i do well too, at least a 12.99 would still be in the 12's


in between the middle cylinders- notice the burned oil!!

 

F-BIRD'88, Wow you sure were right about shimming the exhaust springs to accomodate for removing the rotators!!! I had to shim between .090 and .120 !! The intake valves were a lot closer, needing at most .015-.020 on any of them. All my springs were meant to be installed from 1.720"-1.725" and once i was done I got them between 1.718" and 1.728"

Thanks for the heads up!!

 

Ya the last set i did i ended up with a .030" shim on intakes and a .015+
.030+.060" total .105" stack on the exhaust sides.

Locked out timing and starting:
Install a SPST 15a rated ignition power interupt toggle switch to disable the spark during initial cranking. kick it over, then throw the switch.
The locked out timing will improve the throttle response from at /near idle allowing you to max flash the converter without loading against the brake at launch. Max launch force. better 60ft and et. better ride.
you will need traction.

a lot easier on the starter.

cam timing advance: I is not nessessary to remove the oil pan to get the timing cover back on. trim the edges/corners off the cover/oil pan rail seal lip. lossen off the first 4-5 oil pan rail bolts on each side of the oil pan.
pry the oil pan down just a bit at the front and the timing cover will slip back on. rtv sealer it up and retighten up the oil pan bolts and timing cover bolts.
To aid getting the balancer back on easily, heat it up for a good 20minutes in a big pot of boiling water on the stove. Use oven mitts to handle the hot balancer. Install hot.
do not heat with a flame. boiling water is plenty heat.
makes the hole in the balancer just a hair bigger while its hot. when it cools down the press fit is restored.
Do not just move the cam by guessing. First degree the cam to verify the actual .050 open close timing specs and then move it as required.
Yes it can be very effective,d epening on combo and how much it is out form optimum. Optimin cam phasing means what the motor wants not what the cam card says.

Auto trans bracket cars with cams like yours want the cam installed advanced from measured "straight up" 99 to 105 intake c/L zone.
more advance gives more engine torque. First verify the cam installed timing. then move it. ( offset bushings, multi keyway crank gears.)

do not assume the 4deg keyway will result in a actual 4deg change.
you have to check.

you will need a piston stop, degree wheel, dial indicator and magnetic stand to check and adjust cam phasing properly.
while you are at it finding true tdc with the piston stop you can correct the balancer timing tab location. They are never accurate.

You can make your own piston stop with a old spark plug body and 5/16 steel tube.

You really need the 6" long shaft carbide cutter burr with cylinder shaped cutter with rounded nose to get deep intot he intake port to contour the guide properly. A dremel doesn;t have enough power and makes the job hell.




I pretty much do the whole job with these two cutters. + a few stones to finish. polishing adds nothing. Its just eyewash.

The pics of your blown head gasket are typical of detonation from too much total timing.
you may need to get the block decked to get a good gasket seal.
check it with a straight edge. the block decks and heads must be flat to get a seal reguardless of the gasket type or thickness. use good gas, cooler non projected tip RV8c or r42t plugs. 34 to 36deg max timing. Let the track mph indicate best spark timing.
without the locked out timing you often find that the motor is best with less timing.
track mph is the indicator not et. The et is all about driving and traction.

the twined exhaust riser passages in the smogger heads like 882 624 and 416's makes the center exhaust ports hotter and beats the hell out of the center cylinder walls and deck.
This is another good reason to block the heat risers passages on these heads.
Correcting the idle timing will help too as the heads/cylinder walls get overheated at idle on big cammed motors that do not have enough spark advacne at idle.
The egr exhaust remix that give the3 racey idle, really slows down the fuel burn sleed at idle and low rpm. more initial timing is required to correct the slow idle burn.
The more cam duration and overlap, the more idle timing required.

at least 24-26deg.. at idle right up to full locked advance for max possible idle timing without excessive timing at rpm.

 

I'm also running modified 416's on my car. ie epoxy in the voids below the rocker studs, 1.94 intake valves, heavy porting, etc etc.
I'm running a 240/240 solid flat cam on a 108 LSA. Gnarly. With 1.6 rockers i'm in the .5xx lift realm. .530" or something, but since I have .020" lash...

Anyway, it's a real screamer, but the q-jet was a bear to get running just perfect. Again, still a work in progress.

I never bench tested my heads, nor drag raced the car at the track yet, or even had it on the dyno (yet!), but just posting to mention that I followed Sitting bull / F-birds advice for the majority of my build. The cam I have is from F-birds suggestion, and is one step below his Z-27 I believe ( I have the Z-25). Great fun combo, but my car is also not a track only car. I have 3.73 gears.
I can agree with you on the 4.56 gears, that would be silly. You want to drive it on the street sometime, put in some reasonable gears.
Definitely check the ports on your professional products intake. I have heard of some having vastly different port volumes across the board.


Doing the whole thing with an 1/8" shaft dremel - Wow. You have the patience of a saint... I bought an electric die grinder from princess auto (Canada's version of Harbor freight) for a cool $60, and rigged up an electric speed controller (F-birds help) for $30 or so. The carbide bits are expensive, but you realistically only need two, and you can order from carbidebur.com or the like. $40 for those or so. You'll actually get it done in a lifetime...

 

I cc'ed the heads the other night- all came in between 58.5 and 60 cc, so i am not going to fuss over that!!

I will check the block to see if it needs decking before i put the heads on- other wise if it is straight, i will have the motor assembled by monday or tuesday!!

 

What kind of epoxy did you use Sonix? I'd like to go back in and do some more work on my heads when I eventually upgrade the cam and I was wondering about filling in those huge holes in the ports as well as the exhaust risers.

I would also suggest looking on Ebay for the carbide burrs. With a little patience, I scored one for $15 including shipping. It was a 6" x 3/8" "christmas tree" shape. Worked great on my heads.

 

Well, i got it running again this weekend!! I did use a lot of advice from F_BIRD'88-

I ended up installing an ignition interrupt so i can lock my distributor out- I started off the timing at 32 degrees- it definately needs more.

I installed R43T plugs (none of the shops near me had the R42T or the RV8C in stock- also i was running the R43T prior to this refresh, and I liked them so i decided to stick with it for now- also i am only running a stock coil for now, but i have an accel supercoil to install- do you guys recommend one over the other? i know the stock coil maybe pushes 40,000 volts and the Accel pushes 50,000+ volts) Also, can i run more timing cause of the cooler plugs??



I started out my jetting with the factory settings in the demon (76 primary and 83 secondary) with a 5lb power valve (due to the lower vacuum from the cam) and at Barry Grants recommendation i am running a 1" 4 hole spacer for now- (i have about every size if i want to try - 1/2" phenolic, 1" open, 1" 4hole, 2" open and 2" 4hole)

What do you guys run? spacer, no spacer?


It does have a lot more in the seat of the pants grunt, will roast the tires through 1st into 2nd just by flooring it, will break loose with flashing the converter in 1st at like 15mph rolling (slowly accelerate, let off, then mash the gas) but i definately feel a loss over 6000 rpm- probably because i opted to stay with the 1.84 intake valves, but i set my shift light to 5750 rpm, so by the time i finish the shift it hits 6000 and drops to the next gear... No lag, no dead spots in rpm, i think locking the distributor out helps a lot!!

i won't know how much better it is till next week when i go to the track.

Any more tuning advice?

 

43s are hotter than 42s.

 

on the 416's, i am doin a set for a .030 over 283 bottom end, it is not a drag car, im putting it in a 29 5 window coupe. the pics i see are of the lower guide bosses in the bowls almost completely removed. i have the inherent bad radiuses in the exhaust ports (short side) cleaned up well, and the lower bosses rounded to the valve. is it imperative to completly remove the boss, or is the smoothing going to be enough, im not going for perfect flowing heads, just improving on stock. if i wanted perfect, i would buy world s/r heads. any insight would be greatly appreciated

 

Those heads FBIRD showed are max effort ported and no you don't have to shorten the guide boss.

For a clean up you just fix things and don't need to reconstruct the ports. I'm finishing a pair a 416's at the moment and had a thread I was keeping with pictures of the work. The early pictures in there are of a basic port job on these and you could use them to see what it looks like. The later pictures won't be much help since I've taken it much further.

If you do a search for ported 416 you will find it near the top. There is a lot of good information in there.

Oh and I wanted to add that 416's with about 5 hours of grinding are better then World S/R'$$. They are competitive with-out any grinding and far superior with some effort. That is a common misconception.