So I bought this camshaft yesterday:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-1102/

Now, I tried to put it in my 305, but it seems to be sticking out maybe an 8th of an inch, and it won't let the camshaft retaining plate go on. The engine is 87-95. I know they used roller cams, but the summit guy that I called yelling at said any small block cam will fit any small block.

Could it be the freeze plug on the back of the engine? It looks pretty new so I don't think it is.

 

Remove the cam.
Compare : cam part # that is on the cam to the part # on the invoice to the part # you ordered. Maybe some one missed something.(Rare but possible)

Is this a rebuild motor, or cam // top half only?

Check that all cam bearings are still correctly in place.

 

Theres no part number on the cam, a few 3 digit things in between lobes, but other than that nothing.

The number on the box for the cam is right though.

The motor was purchased from a shop who had it from a non paying customer. It is basically everything except the cam. This is the cam that he specced for me using his super cool software that made a bunch of red and blue wavy lines.

I can get pictures to show everyone what I mean, but I really don't want to put the cam back in to learn that its the wrong one, or I need to take it back out again. It would probably serve no benefit either.

All the bearings are straight and new, the can actually hits the freeze plug and sticks out.

The cam measures roughly 21 3/8", not counting the stud for the gear.

 

Block number
14093627

sorry just sitting in my garage doing nothing because I cant do anything until this damn camshaft is in.

 

don't know if this helps but i do know they make a deep and shallow freeze plug maybe they used a deep where a shallow should have been used just a thought

 

Ok, maybe if I take the cam freeze plug out it will fit? I mean its worth a try, and plugs only cost like what 50 cents?

 

I spoke too soon.
This is the plug in it.

http://www.outdoorpros.com/Prod/Dorm...fhu=3437393038

 

take the freeze plug out, use a micrometer measure, hit a napa or any other parts store they sell them single in steel or brass, shallow or deep you can get them for cheap that price is insane

 

the idiot at summit racing did not look deep enough...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SU...n/?prefilter=1

this cam is for 55-86... you have an 87-95... follow that link...

is your car computer controlled? why not not go with crane cams? also don't these use Hydraulic roller lifters?

 

Yeah, 87-up used roller cams. The guy at summit insisted that you can put a non roller cam in a roller cam block. He said that every small block had exactly the same cam lengths... which by the way I can't find anywhere. I even asked kgb and they told me 7.800" ............ dumbass kgb agents.

I also can't find any information on changing the cam length in 87, all that I understand happened is change to allow roller lifters in the valleys.

 

well when I rebuilt my engine in 2003-2004, don't remember anymore what year, I made the mistake of buying the wrong cam and had to send it back, ended up buying one from Jeggs, but I don't remember now the model number, all I know is it was a crane cam, why? cuz I got the purrrrty decal...

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp-Cams/249/...59#moreDetails


this may have been the cam I bought... ... it sounds good on my car...

 

non roller cams use a button, roller cams use the retaining plate

 

Haha well I'm about to pull the plug and see if it fits. Lets hope it does...

Also yeah I'm putting the tpi back on it, my car is an 85 z28. I'm on a budget and cannot afford expensive parts for this engine, just the basics. Its going up for sale shortly after its running and broken in anyways.

 

O. so is it possible to install this cam with the retaining plate? Or is it possible to put a cam button on it. Links on a how-to would be appreciated. My haynes barely touches camshaft installation.

 

if you use a non roller cam u will have to use a cam button and measure endplay against your timing cover. I'm pretty sure you wont be able to use the cam gear for the 87-95 because the bolt pattern is different you will have to use a timming set off a non roller

 

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Ge.../TechInfo1.asp

 

"The nose of the standard early model cam “12” is very different from the later model hydraulic roller “08”. The nose of the hydraulic roller “08” is necked down to accommodate the cam retention plate."

HAH Theres my problem.

Okay so now that I knocked a perfectly good freeze plug halfway out.
I bought the timing set to match the cam, so thats all good. I just need a cam pin and I'm good to go.

btw, I hammered at this freeze plug with everything I can find and its not budging. Any suggestions?

 

Nevermind...

What not to do:
Hammer out your cam plug, get frustrated, and chew up the last cam bearing.

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

flat tappet cams don't use cam buttons.

Cam buttons are for setting end play on a retrofit roller camshaft.

OE type roller cams use the retainer plate.

The original poster, if using a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft cannot use the retainer plate, and must purchase a timing set for the flat tappet camshaft.

He will obviously also have to use flat tappet lifters, as well as change his pushrods to the proper length.

-- Joe

 

That is correct.

The difference is the snout. OEM type roller cams are intended to be used with retainer plates. Your flat tappet cam, cannot be used with a retainer. You also need to change the timing gear, pushrods, lifters.

And because the flat tappet cam has slower ramps than the roller, you're actually going backwards performance wise.


-- Joe

 

Flat tappet, as in non-roller? I'm kinda confused on this, are you saying that the flat tappet doesn't use the retainer plate or the cam button? What keeps it from moving back n forth then?

The engine did not come with timing chain/cam/lifters/pushrods/rockers and me being el cheap-o, bought all the crap stuff. So, yes, I have regular hydraulic lifters, and the proper length pushrods, but I do have roller rockers that were used, but not worn. Theyre 1.5, I don't know how to do the math to make sure that they'll work.

 

Yes, all non-roller cams are flat tappet. (the bottom of the lifter is somewhat flat).

It does not use the retainer plate. That is used for a roller cam.

Flat tappet cam lobes are not totally flat, they are ground with a slight bias, and the lifters have a convex surface. The combination of the two promote the lifters to spin in the bore, and keep the cam inside the block.

Due to the fact that roller cams are straight, and the lifters roll on the lobes the cam will want to walk out the front of the block. The front of the cam is machined to fit inside the retainer plate on stock applications. For a retrofit application, a cam button must be used.

You need to make sure you get the pushrods for a flat tappet cam, look up like an '85 as the model year to be safe because of the length difference in the lifter bodies.

The timing set will also need to be for a flat tappet cam, NOT roller. Or I should say, not OE roller. Retrofit uses the same timing set as flat tappet. But on a OEM roller application, the back of the timing chain is machined to clear the bolts on the retainer plate.

-- Joe

 

My timing set is for a non-roller cam, just checked. The pushrods check out too.

Now, the lobes are slightly angled. Are the cam journals angled too? I need to replace the stupid bearing because of my hackjob freeze plug removal. Unless it would be okay to sand off the little piece on the edge that got nicked up, but I doubt it.

And just to be clear again... I don't need the retaining plate or a cam button? Just put the cam in, put the gears and chain on and thats it?

 

I've fixed bearings in service with a little scotchbrite before, but I've been doing it for a very long time and know what is acceptable and what is not. I'd have to see it. If it's the rearmost bearing, I'd be tempted to just install a new one from the outside if possible.

So yeah, you don't want to use the retainer plate. Install the cam, install the timing set, align the dots, and you will be golden.

-- Joe

 

Make sure your new pushrods are longer than your original ones.

Water under the bridge I know, but why didn't you get a roller lifter cam?

 

The pushrods are the same length as the rods from my non-roller 305. ^ I'm also in it for the cheapest build possible at this point, and since it is my first ever build of any sort I don't want to buy anything but the cheapest parts with the great possibility that I will ruin them.

And yeah, I'm going to have to put in another new cam bearing, but it is the rear most so it shouldn't be too hard.

 

And why would you call the service line to yell at some poor guy? For one it's completely out of order and for another as you just found out you will usualy make a fool of your self.

You didnt know what you were doing and so you took it out on someone who gave you good information and a company that sold you exactly what you asked for. Did you really never think that you might have been the one that was mistaken?

 

I wasn't actually yelling at him, and I'm sure they deal with people all day yelling at them because they bought the wrong part. He was very nice and I was polite about it.

Summit brand camshafts apparently don't have the best reputation around here for being to exact spec. and thats why I immediately assumed they screwed it up.

 

... uh huh.. sure you weren't ...

 

The reason I said this--
my first assembly in '83-- I went to the local speed shop & got the cam, lifters, pushrods, rocker arms, etc for my motor as an "upper" assembly kit.

The lifters wouldn't fit. I took them back, the guy guy thought I was nuts... then he checked the box---they were for a Pontiac motor, not the Chevy I had. So he told me to bring EVRYTHING back. They double checked everything, gave me ALL new stuff again, & a pass to the drags that weekend!!
Well, good luck & I hope you get to fire it up soon!!!

 

as someone who once worked tech support for a major company (can't say who because legal contracts etc, but you see their commercials on tv) I can tell you there is nothing worse then someone yelling at you or freaking out at you because they made a mistake. I used to deal with it all of the time and of course I was nice and polite... at least while the mic wasn't muted and i was screaming unmentionable profanities at them. not to mention feeling like I would rather die than answer another phone in my lifetime.

 

I feel bad for the person who will buy that car, already.
Cant unerstand people like you, you fricking plan to gain some etra 150$ by swapping a flat tapped cam in there, whow what a nightmare!
Just put a roller cam back in and sell it for the 150$ more it will cost.

 

Like this cars not a money pit already. When its done there will be about 4 grand into it, and It will probably sell for 3500. I know the engine deserves a roller cam and roller lifters, but the money just isn't there for it.

 

Do you know how to properly break in a flat tappet camshaft?

 

I read to idle the engine at 3500 for 20 minutes, but I think thats a little high.

 

Lets get back on topic.


Make sure you use a high zinc break in oil, such as that is sold by comp cams. Yeah you want to hold the RPM for 20 mins or so. The lifters MUST spin in the bore.. or it's all over.

-- Joe

 

WOW i couldnt have said that better myself i do tech support for satellite tv and HONESTLY this is word for word my everyday life LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!

 

The thread is about getting the cam HE BOUGHT to work in HIS CAR.

I don't really care what his motives are, and care less about what anyones opinions of his motives are. The topic is the tech surrounding getting his engine back together with the camshaft he chose. Not who is going to end up with the car in some distant future.

My words of keeping it on topic was a friendly reminder not to bash another forum member. If you don't want to listen, carry on and I'm sure you'll find that five7kid's approach is a little different than mine.


-- Joe

 

^word

What kind of oil comes with the summit cams? Is that stuff okay to use?
Making trip number 2 to summit today, need a cam plug a cam bearing, and oil pan studs. I know I need more stuff, but we'll save that for another trip.

Summit racing is only a 15 minute drive from me I don't know what you guys do.

 

That's easy, we order the part needed and also order a couple extra goodies to justify spending more money on shipping.

 

That's assembly lube. Slather it on the lobes and bottom of the lifters.

Fellow racer of mine happens to run an engine shop. He told me to use ARP thread lube instead of the normal cam assembly lube. Says he's never wiped out a flat tappet cam when using it for break-in.

 

Got the new bearing in today with $5 worth of threaded rod/washers/nuts pretty nifty little toy I made, but I'm not sure if it will work for any bearing other than the last one.

I used comp cams engine assembly lube and put the cam in too. I'm so happy this things finally going forward instead of backwards.

You guys are the freaking best here, nothing but great information!

Now, my timing marks line up, but not exactly. Its maybe 1 degree off, but thats the closest the chain will allow it to go.

 

Try to use Comp CCA-159 break in additive. It's exactly what you need. Crane has their own kind and Im sure tehre's other companies with them too, GM has their EOS but I cant find that anywhere. But you need to use a zinc additive to make sure you dont destroy the cam. Let it run at 2000-3000 RPMs for 20 minutes. I like to change the RPMs up and down a little bit every few minutes just because.

 

If you have a CAT installed, take it off prior to the break-in 20 minute period of continuous RPMs... mine was left on and on my way home after my rebuilt, my car had no umph .... CAT was clogged... had to ........ well use your imaginations...

 

Yeah I remember when the cat on my brothers vw clogged up, the thing was glowing red hot. The cats on, I'll probably get to taking it off when the engines in the car and when I start to figure out how to do the exhaust.
I've been looking for break in oil, but I see that you just add that cca-159 to regular oil to break in the cam. And now all thats left is to get this stubborn oil pan to fit.