Guest

Seems to me that flow, assuming efficient chambers, is more important than type of metal. I've discovered that if you want AFR 195 heads, but can't afford them, you can get the following for only half as much, but they're iron. They do equal the regular 195s at flow. Take a look:

Here's the advantage, on a 10:1 350, over the popular Vortecs, which will end up costing just as much when you add in the intake. :

and that massive dip, that's the dyno, not the cam. Here's the same cam, similar heads (RHS200) on a different dyno that does it less:

I'm excited by this, I can top 2 engines instead of 1.

8t2 z-chev

i've heard some claim that iron heads are more
"thermally efficient" than aluminum heads(iron is said
to pull less heat out of the combustion event,resulting
in more force applied to the piston)But all the tests i
have seen done were all inconclusive,head material did
not seem to affect power in the tests

Guest

I was thinking more about how much extra HP do you need to make up the weight disadvantage of the iron heads? 50 pounds at 10 pounds per HP is 5 HP. But if you're needing the nose of the car light for your class of racing, the aluminum may be worth the extra $700+. As you describe the issue, I think each burn happens too fast for the metal to have much impact.

radical82

Aluminum heads will also tolerate 1/2 to 1 more point of compression, and more compression is more horsepower....add that to the 1/2 a tenth you give away cuz of the extra weight of the cast iron heads....

But it always goes back to the old saying, "Anybody can race, how fast can you afford to go?" For me, I look at the "value" of the parts more then the "price". Maybe it takes me a bit longer to save up the $$$$$ to get the top shelf stuff, but it just depends again on the value of the part and what it will or will not do for the overall performance.

The dyno chart you put up shows that it takes a lot more revs to get power out of the cast iron heads, usable rpm comes into the equation, too.... Having to twist the engine to 7200 RPM on the street turns it into an instant cop magnet, but for a track only car it works fine....

Don't ya just hate comprimises???????

Air_Adam

But it balances out, because heat = power, and cast iron keeps more heat in the chamber than aluminum does. You run higher compression with an aluminum head to make up for the power lost through the rapid heat dissipation of aluminum heads, compared to cast iron.

radical82

But just how much power is actually lost because of the lower combustion temperature??? Also, a lower combustion temp will increase the amount of timing which can be put in, again increasing power....

I've seen on the dyno, both engine and chassis dyno's how a set of aluminum heads and the increased CR increases both horsepower and torque...but I've yet to see a dyno graph showing the amount of power loss because of a lower combustion temp.....

Not saying your wrong, just saying what I've seen on the dyno's....

perhaps a more fair comparison to counteracting elements balancing each other out might be the lesser weight of aluminum heads, and the resultant gain in vehicle performance is negated by the loss of temp??? But then from my own racing I know that 100 lbs. less weight takes off 1/10 second from the quarter mile ET....

I don't know all the math numbers, just know the things I've seen on the track and the dyno's.... What shows the loss of performance from decreased combustion temp?????

Guest

I'm not trying to stop the interesting discussion, but the bottom line is that flow is HP, and these will flow like the AFRs for half the $, and that's partly because they are iron. They're a better bang for the buck, and I wanted everyone here to find out about these heads, whether they buy them or not.

radical82

The flow numbers are there, but the RPM range is a bit high for a street engine IMO.....

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Maybe Im missing something obvious, but what heads are we discussing here? "Half Price Hero" heads?

all4u

The bump in compression and the loss in weight is worth the price for aluminum heads, IMO. Also think that with iron heads retaining heat, it will also put a small rise in underhood temps.

Also do I have to mention that aluminum heads look better on show cars than cast iron?

Back to topic, I believe that aluminum is better, some might disagree but why is it that most newer cars are using aluminum heads than iron, if iron was better, that is what they would be using, especially because it is cheaper.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

The fact that alu will tolerate a point more CR is not so much a gain in the CR department, it's the ability to run a longer cam with the CR offsetting low rpm pumping loss that allows you to make even more power.

Must be china heads? inferior castings cast from old soda cans.

Guest

First, the heads are american. not chinese, though I am not racist. If the chinese can come up with a good design without copying edelbrock or whoever, then I'm fine with that. Second, If you're happy with idle to 5000 rpm, then you should get the Vortec heads, but you'll lose the race. Races are won by well-used HP, and unless you use a power adder, HP comes from RPM which comes from flow. Now, the top rpm for a budget built SBC is about 6500 rpm. I would post numbers for these heads with another cam featuring less overlap, but all I have of that is on a 383. True, these heads don't need a dual-pattern cam, but I let dyno results decide that for me. If you spend some time on AFR's website, you'll see a 383 seems to like the 236/242-110 cam, which has 19 degrees of overlap at 50. This baby Thumpr has 20 degrees, so it should like a 383. This jives with David Vizard's teachings about camming a stroker, use a tight LSA. But I've yet to see dyno results for the baby Thumpr in a 383, with ANY heads. Back to cams: I do have results for a COMP NX276/288-113 in a 383 with AFR195s, it peaked at 6000 and pulled 6500 very very well. This cam has 4 degrees overlap at 50, which is more in line with a 350. But I have no dyno results for this. Next point: If it's a show car, how well the heads flow doesn't matter, and iron heads can be painted with alumium paint and be so believable you need a magnet to be sure. Look, if you want the power of AFR's 195cc heads, which are the benchmark and gold standard for good reason, but you'd rather spend only half what they ask for them, then here's a way it can happen for you. Peace out.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

What does it have to do with racist? you should be more worried by the ill effect it has on the american economy if they copy an american product with the sole intention to carpet bomb the market with their cheap junk. American made my ***...can't be done for that amount of money. Boxed in the US maybe. Go to speedtalk.com and read up on the china heads and for even more kicks, the new procomp cast iron block. As with the heads it's a product meant to look good at first glance but when carefully examined turns out to be junk. Crappy alloying poor casting techniques.....

I'm not even from the US of A...but I don't buy Chine junk.

They are EngineQuest 23 degree heads, all those have the same appearance as the ProComp, Patriot and whatever else you have out there. just looking at them identifies them: Looks like they are Australian heads, like the RHS ones being from New Zealand. I don't buy that either.....awfully close to China!

Guest

Sorry, wrong this time. EQ is part of the operations of AAMidwest, they dismantle dead cars, melt down the metal, and the iron they use some of to cast their own heads. As for those others you named looking similar, that's because these are what they copied, the way Professional Products copied Edelbrock's intakes without paying Edelbrock anything. That's wrong, and I don't approve of Professional Products, and I have ill will toward anyone who buys one of their intakes just to save a few dollars. If this continues, the innovator who gets copied cannot recoup the investment of the R&D, so the progress will grind to a screeching halt. But I'm not big on helping rich americans get richer when they give nothing back. Vic Sr. gave back much more than Vic Jr., Jr is just greedy though he talks friendly. I can relate to the poor guy slaving away in a sweatshop, 14 hours a day, just to feed his wife and one child. The poor in America are even worse off however, because we live in a culture where you must have a car, even if you can't afford one. And many other things, not just a car.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Why do I get this feeling you are a sales rep? EQ23 heads, it says so in your article.

EQ23 = enginequest see here:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...der_heads.html

same as these:
http://www.aaeq.net/http:/%252Fwww.a...Media/23sblock

it says engine quest right there in the URL, and also here.. so who's wrong this time...or lying?

http://www.aaeq.net/Enginequest/Home

or here

https://parts.aaeq.net/

If that's not engine quest I don't know what is.

Done here...too much smoke screening going on here, I won't buy this junk anyway...no reason to get upset about it. I'll stick with my trick flow and brodix heads thank you.

Guest

Why do rich guys have to be such jerks? I don't sell heads. I've never even sold one head from a junkyard 350 I killed the thrust bearing in.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Rich guy? Me? yeah right!

Blackdog36

iTrader: (3)

For me no matter how many times I compare aftermarket heads, AFR wins. AFR have great exhaust flow which result in superb exhaust/intake ratio. Yah they are expensive but once your spending $1,000 what are a few more Benjamins. I am glad there are more affordable options out there especially if you are not building a high performance engine. Plus, some people may not want to deal with head port/valve work and want bolt on piece.

radical82

I don't think any one head or brand is ideal for every application and I certainly didn't mean to imply that... Though I do have to say i would have to be desparate for any kind of performance parts before I bought Professional Products anything.... The way they blatantly rip off US manufactured parts, primarily Edelbrock, really gets my goat!!!! I don't suppose I owe Vic any money, but I hate to see US businesses being beat up by a foreign product and not having to pay some price for it. How much time and money would you imagine Edelbrock spent on R&D just to have some offshore company selling ringers of their product???

Anyway, that really has nothing to do with the heads that Jamie brought to our attention....Looks like one heck of a good product at a very reasonable price!!!! Though the power at RPM level is a bit high in the dyno chart, I betcha they would work like clockwork in a 3,000 pound or lighter car with a five speed!!!! I wouldn't hesitate to give them a whirl in a project where I've fought so hard for every pound of weight reduction!!!! In a "normal" application I think they'd be great, but for my car in this build, I'm gonna have to go with lighter is better and pay the extra $$$$$ for the AFR's... But that's just me---another geezer set in his ways!!!!!

So, thanks for the great information on the heads, Jamie.... I never meant to bad mouth them, just wanted to raise a few questions.....

Guest

I'm glad someone halfway understood me. These heads can equal the AFR exhaust flow, with very lottle work, by a newb to porting, and nearly no instruction. That's great! Second, this is the more affordable option for someone who is building a high performance engine. Better to try your hand at porting than pay AFR $600 or more for it. Especially with heads as foolproof as these. The reason the AFRs cost more is only about a fifth due to the cost of aluminum, and a third due to the CNC work. The balance is you paying for the AFR name, and they know they can get it because they know they're the best. Well, not the best anymore.

Guest

yes, when weight matters, then the AFR heads are tough to beat. On the street, it's difficult to notice 50 pounds.

Guest

BTW, I appreciate you making it clear you understood what I had in mind.