87Red305

iTrader: (1)

I changed my leaky intake manifold gasket last weekend and it seems to be holding up ok. A new problem has developed since replacing the seal. The car has no power under load. I live on a steep hill and the car feels like it barely has enough power to get up it and its never had an issue with this before. I did plugs and wires as well but had to set my #1 piston (TDC) manually since I pulled all the wires off before changing them so I had no idea of knowing which went where. I believe its a timing issue but Id like to hear feedback. How can I check timing on these cars, where should I be and any other help is appreciated. Also noticed the power steering is getting grumpy so we may need a new pump too. argh.

Atilla the Fun

This is gonna take an awful lot of typing. Let's start with the firing order. The cylinders on the drivers side are numbered, from front-to-rear, 1-3-5-7. On the passengers side, front to rear, 2-4-6-8. The firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. The distributor turns clockwise, as viewed from above. The number 1 wire goes on the terminal closest to cylinder one.
Verify that, then we'll move on to setting your initial timing.

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

When I set my initial timing I pulled the plug on #1 cylinder, waited for the compression stroke then set where the rotor was at that moment as #1. I know I have the firing order correct as it doesnt miss (any more than it used to) and runs well under low load. Maybe I should be looking into vacuum instead??

Atilla the Fun

Did you use a timing light? Did you undo the EST wire?
The vacuum check is cheap and easy, I would do that.

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

I have not used a timing light yet. I took a quick look and didnt see the teeth on the Harmonic balancer. I assumed that the computer handled adjusting the timing. My vacuum at idle is about 20Hg, give it a rev and vac drops to 0Hg and then spikes to about 25 Hg on rpm drop. The car has also been dieseling VERY BADLY since I re-installed the distributor. I did mark the way the rotor was facing before I pulled it and lined it up correctly going back in. Not sure what the EST is exactly.

Atilla the Fun

The dieseling proves your initial timing wasn't set. You still have to set that correctly before the computer can adjust the timing as you drive. There's a groove or 2 on the damper, and the timing tab is down behind the water pump. Your emissions sticker will tell you the correct initial timing, either 0 degrees or 6 degrees advanced, with the Electronic Spark Timing wire disconnected. For the small-cap distributors, it is a light brown wire with a black stripe, over by the 4 wire plug for the heater fan. This also explains your lack of power.

Atilla the Fun

By the way, your results with the vacuum gauge are what they should be.

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

Atilla you are the best!! If the weather holds out till when I get out of work tomorrow I'll be setting my base timing and see if that clears things up. I'll post back my results.

87Red305

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Progress and setbacks...
I got some time under the hood today and I'll admit it took me a while to figure out how to use it. Once I found the mark behind the water pump I knew what to do. I wasnt totally sure where the mark on the balancer had to be so I guessed and put it between the first and second tooth (From the drivers side). My tach has recently been on the fritz so I had no way of knowing exactly where my idle was but I tried to get it as close as I could by memory. Excited that it may actually run well now, I pulled out of the driveway and noticed there was alot of power now. I start to go up my hill and once I get on the pedal because im losing speed there is absolutely no power, I coast a little bit up the hill and she dies. So now I'm halfway up my giant hill and she wont start for anything. I rolled down my hill IN REVERSE, let it sit for a while and after messing with the idle setting got it to start and stay running. Shes still dieseling bad so Im pretty sure I still have a timing issue. In the process my dads timing light connector got melted on the exhaust and I have no money to replace it right now. Looks like I'll be out of commission till next pay day now. Im thinking 2 things. Either my timing is still off or Ive got other problems. Let it be known I had none of these problems before doing my intake manifold seal.

87Red305

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:: bump ::

87Red305

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I spent some time on the car today. I think part of the problem was I didnt unplug the right wire as my ESC. I found the one on the passenger side and when I unplugged it I noticed the ticking I usually hear disappeared so I figured this was the right wire. I reset the base timing to about the second tooth on the left. I believe this is 4 degrees before TDC. I took the car out began to go up hill and as soon as I got on the gas the power surges and goes out....back down the hill I roll. I cant seem to get to the bottom of this. I also noticed that if I stab the throttle going up my driveway nothing happens, it bogs the motor out but no acceleration. The car is still dieseling badly when I try to turn it off. I think I am going to have to redo all my wires and start over, unless anybody can think of a better idea.

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

bump.... I asked my dad for help and we checked my firing order and ensured that I had TDC correct. Both checked out. I will attempt to reset the timing tomorrow and post results. One kink, im not 100% sure which is my ESC plug. I have 2 plugs under my dizzy, the one closest to the firewall drops the idle down (I believe this is my ESC) the other one stalls the motor. I also have a wire on the passenger side that when unplugged stops the ticking I hear comming from my motor after it is shut off. somebody please confirm I have the ESC right. thanks

87Red305

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:: bump ::

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

:: bump :: not feelin the third gen love.....

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

::bump or die ::

afremont

Don't unplug anything from the distributor itself. The ESC wire is over by the passenger's side fender and firewall area. It's like it is connecting two different harnesses together. It's tan with a black stripe on it. One single wire.

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

Im pretty sure I found this wire, does one side of it split and one of those wires run directly to the battery? The other side of the wire runs into a loom by the firewall. I also noticed that when I unplug this wire the constant ticking I here on my motor stops.

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

Today I played with the timing a little to see if I could get it squared away. I advanced the timing to 2, 4 and 6 degrees with very little results. At 6 degrees she had plenty of power AND I was able to make it up the hill moving VERY slowly. at 4 degrees I made it halfway up the hill before I had to pull into a road before she stalled out. At 2 degrees advanced I didnt make it far at all. Seems that the timing HELPED but it didnt solve my problem. I think the problem is elsewhere with the car. The best way I can describe what happens is like as soon as I start up an incline, the cars power surges. It'll be strong one second and the next shes about to stall out. I still have an issue with the car dieseling but it MAY be due to my faulty ignition switch. What should I look at next?? I dont know if a clogged cat would cause these issues or not. Assuming my timing is correct what should I look at next?

afremont

A clogged fuel filter could cause the engine to be weak under a load.

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

Checked the fuel filter at the carburetor and it seemed clean...

Stekman

Do you hear any noises under load? Or does it just kind of lay down and play dead?

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

at 6 degrees advance the only noise was the engine surging. It would bog, power would come up, until I got to the top of the hill, I was basically moving at 5 mphs up this big long hill. At 2 degrees I head some kind of knocking or something comming from the motor when I called in for the power. I dont want to set the motor to more then 6 degrees advance since It wouldnt be on the tab there fore not be accurate. I dont know what else to do with timing but I am willing to try any combo.

87Red305

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:: bump ::

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

uhhhh bump?

87Red305

iTrader: (1)

1 more bump then im pushing this car into my lake.....

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

i think what you're hearing is pinging because the timing is too far. set it back to 4 and see.

trueburton

did you ever find a solution? I think i have the same symptoms as you.
thanks