FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Iv been hanging on to this vortec short block for a few years with plans for it. I bought it for around $200 came from a rolled truck with almost 80k still has factor crosshatches and everything seems to look great and move freely. I also bought it because its a 2-bolt block with a one-peace rear main and can use roller cam. The block also has the same casting as the ZZ4 block.
Im not sure where to start so all start with my intentions for the car. This car will be driven only in the spring, summer and fall and will see mostly city driving and some highway with the plans to make it to
to a track for road racing or local auto cross events on occasion. My goal is to net around 375 - 425 crank HP and or TQ And i would like to keep the car very streetabile yet have a good rpm band at the track with around 9:8.1 to 10:2.1 compression with aluminum 64cc heads. Im trying to keep this as cheap, simple and reliable as possible. so what do i need and what don't i need? I.E forged rods, pistons, sprayed caps Etc.
I have a mild built 700r4 with a shift kit and stock stall, limited slip 9 bolt with 3.27 gears and i plan to keep most of this.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

bump... anyone?

BASSETT IROC 85

iTrader: (2)

I would buy vortec heads, change valve springs, install XR294HR (part #08-443-8 )comp cam.

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

I would go flat top forged pistons, Total Seal Max Seal rings, the new AFR Eliminator heads at 62 cc and a factory forged crankshaft. Something in the order of a Comp Cams XFI 260 roller cam would be nice. Have the block machined at a reputable shop. My philosophy has always been build the best shortblock you can afford and come back later with bolt ons as your budget allows. Your compromise is going to be the fact that autocross is a rather slow speed handling event where torque is necessary to pull out of the turns and minimize shifting. Road racing is a high speed event where horsepower is more important. I would use ARP studs on the mains and leave it a two bolt main block. The combo I've described is good for about 420 horsepower and a two bolt main with studs will live a happy life under those conditions provided your not taking it to 7000 rpms.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

What about rods any recommendations? The crankshaft what are OEM stock units capable of in (HP - TQ - RPM) iv been look into a cranks "factor forged crankshaft" did they make a forged 3.480"? i run across alot of forged 3.250" i thought about maybe running one otherwise iv been looking into one of these: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
i heard that these cranks are good for 500hp. by road racing i meant more of a time run on a race track its hard to decided auto cross is like you said. . . car will probably see more solo then track just because its inexpensive. iv heard that with a 2 bolt main with APR studs is good for 500hp before going sprayed or to a 4 bolt. Would there be any benefit to block fill? yea i don't really plan on moving the power band up that high inless i ran a 3.250" crank maybe. maybe looking to spin 5,500 to 6,000 tops
which i guess is pretty much the norm

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

Good questions.... First, the 3.48" stroke is the most common forged factory crank available. There was many LT-1 first generation motors built in the 70's and even more truck motors that came with the forged cranks. They weren't the high dollar 4340 forged cranks but I believe they were 4130's which will easily handle 500 hp. Of course, when you talk horsepower, you have to take into consideration the reciprocating weight. That is the mainly the rods and the pistons. A good forged rod in the 525 to 580 gram weight would be great. I prefer the Eagle H-beam CRS5700BLW 5.700" lightweight at 535g for $515.90. I don't know if your budget allows that. Couple that with the SRP lightweight pistons and your in great shape. I think your starting to realize that "budget" is relative. Your probably into this thing about $2200 including machine work for just your shortblock if you have to go through a complete machining process.
I hate to even bring this up but it's a reality...great deals on nice top end parts will be coming down the pike as the economy worsens and people have to unload thier stuff. If your patient, you can really save money. That's parts...not machine work. Don't skimp on machine work. If your block still has the factory cross hatching, have everything closely inspected. You might be good. If you stud the mains, you'll have to have them align honed to maintain concentricity...not bored, just honed.
Every quality machinist I know prefers studded two bolt mains to factory four bolt mains. The next step up would be studding the factory four bolt mains and the best would be installing splayed studded mains on a two bolt block. For you, I would stay with the studded two bolt mains. On a budget, you have to spend wisely. I tend to overengineer and waste money. I've filled my 400 blocks to what is refered to as a "street fill"....about half way but you better have a good cooling system and I prefer an oil cooler as well. Even with limited frontal area on a third gen, I still never experienced overheating. On a 350, I would lean towards skipping the block filler. There appears to be enough meat in the block to handle your horsepower requirements.

Stekman

Biggest things, to me, What are the sustained RPM levels? What is the budget for the project?

As wesilva aluded to, lightweight components will be your friend. Especially if you will have sustained RPMs. The same goes for the valve train.

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

Stekman,

Are you running that SB2 on the street?

Stekman

It can if it has to. I try not to, though. Terrible manners.

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

I'm not stealing your thread, FueledSoul...
I bought what was advertised as new 23 degree forged CP pistons off of ebay. They turned out to be SB2 pistons. It took me awhile to figure it out but my research into the SB2 was interesting. Hell of a circle track and road racing motor. Probably sparked the idea that created the LS series.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Thanks for all the help and posts so far guys . . .
That scat crankshaft i posted i was reading
"All 9000 Series Crankshafts are manufactured from a new revolutionary Space Age 9000™ Series Material. This material was designed for high strength and fatigue resistance. 9000™ Series material is the strongest cast material available! 25% stronger than the standard cast iron, and 2 to 5 pounds per crank lighter than a stock crank. Estimated horsepower use is 500HP for small blocks and 600HP+ for big blocks." and i was reading somewhere I that the scat 9000 series crankshafts are rated to turn 7k rpms if thats the case that crankshaft might be something im going to look into i also was pricing things out with pistons, rods, cranks ect during my search i ran across an entire rotating Assembly from scat - you get a Series 9000 Cast Crank, Forged Pistons, I-Beam Rods they have another (same kit) with bearings, rings for $90 something more but i don't think this is a bad deal for $700
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
im still looking for other alternatives though. i really like the XFI 260 cam i was looking at other cams too even LT1 cams since im running a electric in tank fuel pump with a 3-port return style regulator and a carb. i guess i can give you a bit more detail into what i already have
that im going to be using with or on the future motor as far as cooling goes i pretty much have that covered im running an electric water pump (35gpm) 160* or 180* stat i cant remember all have to look at my past orders, primmery fan engine block switch with an on temperature of 195* and 185* off, adjustable fan temperature switch adjustable between 160* and 240. stock 3rdgen aluminum radiator with home made fan shroud
with off set dual 12" crived fan blads that draw low amps and pull a combined 3200 CFM - and another plus to keeping engine temps down might as well nail the exhaust setup too! jet hot coated hedmens long tubes into a 100% mandrel bent stainless (headers to tailpipe back) y-pipe (2)- 2.25" into (1) - 3.25" system so thats what i have as far as cooling and exhaust goes

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

I've had good luck with the Scat 9000 series crankshafts. I've only used the 400 cranks but they have been good quality. I like them because they are affordable and I can get them internally balanced.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Yea so this is starting to look like a plan. iv heard of guys running 500+ passes on that crank with 800HP before braking. if the 2 bolt with studs are good for around 500hp and same with the scat crank that supposable has a 7,000RPM rating then i think this should all work for me, the forged 4340 steel I-beams and forged Flat top, with two valve reliefs i think will work in conjunction. . .
i have more question so i'm going to call summit im also going see what grams the rods and pistons are. the kits pistons are 30 over even with the block being in good shape it might not be a bad idea to start with a new and fresh bore.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

just playing around with desktop dyno. AFR190+260cam + dual plan intake+10:1 comp

at least i have an rough idea now. . .

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

That's about what I figured. I'm running a similiar combo in my '66 Camino and it's been dynoed at 360 rear wheel horse power with a smaller cam, .480 lift/215 duration @.050" and an older set of AFR heads. With the newer, better designed AFR's you are choosing and the bigger cam, you would have to be looking at the very least, at an additional 30 horsepower.

skinny z

That's impressive!

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

indeed!
well iv been looking at other heads besides AFR since there pretty spendy. iv seen and read a few magazines that have used or tested patriot cylinder heads. i looked on there website and found some freedom series 185 bare heads for $700. so are these off shore peaces too? https://www.patriot-performance.com/...&cat=40&page=1
i wounder what these would flow fully ported. iv also seen another cheap head from "pro comp" any other decently priced good flowing heads out there. i want to stick with aluminum

Stekman

Stay away from Pro Comp. Personally, I'm not really a fan of Patriot, either. Few people I work with don't speak highly of them.

Depending on budget: Trick Flow, Brodix, Dart, World, RHS, Canfields. All have solid aluminum offerings. Aside from obviously AFR. Personally, I've used some pretty BA Brodix heads with good results. Run RHS heads on customer engines pretty frequently. Depending on the desired build, I often like to get the bare castings so I can match certain components for desired results (i.e. titanium retainers/locks/PSI or Isky tool room springs - you get the idea).

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

thanks. guess all shop around for common names. what do you think i would get for a used stock 350 rotating Assembly (crank, rods, pistons) assuming it all checks out good, i plan taking it out anyway might as well sell it now and re-cope some funds...

BASSETT IROC 85

iTrader: (2)

I like the GM fastburn heads. The only thing I don't like is 3/8 rocker studs that can be changed. My new engine (355) made 462 HP on the dyno friday with Vortec heads.

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

I do have to add that AFR makes a few levels of the same model head. Mine are the race level CNC ported heads that retailed for $1895 five years ago. The new AFR Eliminators are a better design.

This is the first motor I've built where I tried to improve each part of the assembly. Deck plate honing, a Moroso Power pan for oil control, Total Seal Maxseal rings, a narrow ring pack where just a few "tricks" I added. It paid off.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

should i get a stall?

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

I can't help you on that. I've never run an automatic in anything but a drag car.

Stekman

Your converter will need to compliment your cam selection, so yes, you will most likely end up needing one.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

I talked with comp cams and they recommended a 268 grind for what i'm using the vehicle for. seems like a good cam i think im going to go with 1.6 rocker ratio to bump the lift up