v10viper04

What kind of cam do you think i will need? I have a Summit Stage 1 intake (duel plane) I am going to go 383 stroker (flat tops or dish?) i already run 93 so higher comp. is ok.... what kind of carb should i run and what kind of cam? Anything else i should know? also, what kind of power should i see? Thanks

10secondhopeful

wow, i figured you'd have a buncha of posts to this, humph. well i'll help ya out. i'll start with the stroker kit. eagle makes several great stroker kits, i found one with flat top pistons. you know you need to bore .030 over right? well actually you can do a .020, .030, .040 bore for this stroker kit, they'll send you whatever you want to match your bore. anyway, its got a CR of 11:1, so its pretty nice if you can handle it. don't even worry about the carb right now, those are simple. now camshafts, lets see, comp cams makes some seriously nice ones with awesome lift and duration. especially the thumper cam. now i personally am going with a lunati voodoo camshaft. you can choose from different specs as well. let me see if i can find a link.... ok here we go, here is the lunati camshafts
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...5&autoview=sku
i guess i can find you the rotating assembly while im at it...
heres the list
http://tpiparts.net/82_92_rotating_assemblies?b=1
and this is what i recomend
http://tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/9015

the power gains depends on the heads you got, flow specs and valve lift. with the lunati camshaft, and say 195cc AFR eliminator heads, a 11:1 CR, the intake manifold, the bore and stroke, headers, some RR arms with a 1.6 high end ratio, you could be pushing 450 HP, but remember there is other things involved, with that kind of power you need a suspension rework for sure, better ingition and spark set up, MSD is good or accel. a bigger alt is recomended and for sure a rebuilt tranny, pro built is great at it. along with a rear end that can handle the power with gears of your choice. you could be running low 11's n/a and 10's on the bottle, depends on how you work it. oh and that HP estimate is with the AFR heads, idk what you have but i highly doubt that its as good as those AFR heads.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Hmmm, you're building an engine around an intake manifold?

You need to take a more integrated approach. Step 1 is what you plan on doing with the car. Choices for a daily driver will be different than for a strip/weekend-warrior which will be different for a car trailered to the track. So, what is the car supposed to do for you?

The Summit Stage I intake is basically an Edelbrock Performer with Summit's name on it. Not really a good starting place for anything but a daily driver.

When you've decided what you're going to do with the car (or at least, tell us what that is), the next decision is the cam. That determines powerband, driveability, economy, etc., in whatever priority they take with usage. Close with that is heads, as you don't want huge heads with a small cam daily driver, but you also don't want tiny heads on a weekend warrior.

Last is pistons, because they are the final determiner of compression ratio. I know you said 93 octane gas, but you can still have too much compression with a small cam, or not enough for a large cam, even with 93 octane.

So, what will you be using the car for primarily?

v10viper04

I use it as a daily driver, but i want to be able to beat LS1's, thats my goal basically, if if whomps them even better but i want it streetable. Basically i really want to beat my friend who owns a Talon which runs mid 13's while driving like ****... (bad launch, bad shifts, etc.)

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

LS1's - my DD Camaro outruns stock LS1 automatics.

Talon - That's a bit more of a challenge.

Okay, basic 383, Comp XE268-ish cam (similar roller grind if you have a roller 350 block), GM Fast Burn heads, Vortec Performer RPM intake, Holley 650-750 CFM double pumper carb, good headers and exhaust.

Of course, the transmission, torque converter, rear end, and traction would all have to be upgraded to handle all of this.

v10viper04

I have a shift kit for the 700r4,and 3.73's for the rear, i am using stock votrec heads(which i plan to get ported over the winter). Also what kind of hp should i expect from my current combo,( I am going to change to a Holley or edelbrock 600cfm carb if i don't go stroker, if i go stroker the carb will be bigger) also, i have the cam in my sig and my specs are in my sig. i've heard from 300-350hp what do you guys think? What can i do to my 350 to beat a 6 speed LS1 while not going with a stroker? Thanks
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Sig

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Is that Summit intake for Vortec heads?

That's a decent daily driver cam if it's the XE series. About all stock Vortec heads can handle. You'll still need new valve springs.

That should get you in the 350-375 HP range, but that's gross flywheel, not net flywheel like factory engines are rated. In order to beat stock LS1/T56's without going stroker, you're going to need more cam, meaning more lift, meaning you'll have to modify the heads, and you'll need a better intake manifold. A pretty high stalling torque converter, like 3000 RPM (mine stalls at 2500 and it could use more).

Do yourself a favor and don't even consider an Edelbrock carb. A 650 CFM Holley double pumper would be a good compromise between performance and economy.

The LS1/T56 will still pass you at the gas station - while you're filling up and they're going on.

v10viper04

I don't care about gas mileage, as far as i'm concerned if your worried about gas you shouldn't be modding. The intake is for the vortec heads. and the vortecs are stock, all i did was take them off a 96' Tahoe 350 vortec and popped them on my 350.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...4&autoview=sku

Thats the link to summit where i bought the cam and the link should take you to the exact cam thats in my car.
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and i upgraded to Comp cams valve springs that were recommended by comp cams same with the retainers and valve locks.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The XE262 is a pretty good cam. You should be in the 325-350 gross flywheel HP range. Stock LS1's were 305 net flywheel HP, so they'll have a little power on you. But, 4th gens weigh more than 3rd gens.

While you're having the heads ported, have the top of the valve guides cut so they'll accept positive-type valve stem seals. That will do 3 things for you: 1) give you better valve seals; 2) give you more valve lift travel; 3) allow you to use better valve springs. Do all that, and put an XE274 cam in, with appropriate stall you'll be more than a match for stock LS1's.

v10viper04

With those mods for the future what do you think i can run using 3.73's in the rear and a shift kit? how much do you think it will cost to have them cut and ported? Thanks
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also whats the diff between gross hp vs. net hp? and vs. flywheel hp?

v10viper04

could you explain the difference between gross flywheel hp and Net flywheel hp. why not just say flywheel hp? lol enlighten me please cause i'm lost... lol

v10viper04

so basically ( i looked it up) If i was making 350 Gross hp i would only be makes approximately 280 net hp? that's a huge decrease.....

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Typical ratings are flywheel and rear wheel.

Flywheel can either be gross (the old way, prior to 1971), which is what you'll hear crate motors, cams, etc. rated as; or net.

Gross means the engine is free'd up as much as possible - best exhaust, carb, intake, velocity stack on the carb instead of an air cleaner, electric water pump powered by the dyno facility, no alternator, power steering, etc. being powered by the engine. Outfits have even been known to use one intake/carb configuration to get peak torque ratings, and a different intake/carb to produce the peak horsepower ratings.

Net means flywheel horse power as measured on a dyno, but the engine as-installed in the car - with the same full exhaust, air cleaner, carb, intake, computer controls (if applicable), water pump and alternator driven by the engine as it would be if installed in the car. It's a bit more "real world" than gross HP ratings.

v10viper04

wow that's pretty crazy, so what would i have to do to make more net hp than an LS1 without going stroker? or is stroker a good choice? are they pretty streetable? Thanks

v10viper04

any idea how much it costs to port heads? also i've been told by some ppl that porting makes the heads flow worse.... idk how but it made me nervous... any ideas?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

350, Fast Burns unported, Vortec RPM intake, XE274 cam, you'll have more power than a stock LS1.

A 383 would be tamer with all other things being equal than a 350.

v10viper04

I am thinking i want to stay 350 and MAYBE 355, but if i put in my 3.73's and my shiftkit and port my Vortec heads, and get a bigger cam, better intake and a holley carb. can i beat a stock LS1?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

.030"-over 350, ZZ4 cam & intake (basically an Edelbrock Performer), stock CC q-jet, L69 air cleaner, ported World 305 heads, Hooker 2055 headers, 3" cat back, single in/out 3" Magnaflow, 2500 stall, 3.23 gears, AC/PS/PW/PL all intact - and I outrun stock LS1 automatics in 1/4 mile ET, but they out MPH me.

Vortecs should make more power than my Worlds. You're talking more gear and probably a better intake.

Unless the person doing the job knows what they're doing, porting Vortecs often actually makes them worse.

v10viper04

should i just leave the vortecs alone?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As already suggested:

v10viper04

Also i'm incredable confused about torque converters, ok i've heard many things but theres one thing i hear more than others... and thats if i up my stall to say 2500 the car can be revved to 2500 before all power transferrs through the tranny to the wheels correct? and i heard even with a high stall the car will still drive like normal under normal driving.... Thanks a lot. Cause i'm looking at stalling my car, along with 3.73's, shift kit and whatever else i do to the motor.... and under acceleration from first gear it feels like something might be grinding and after it goes into second it goes away.... any ideas? Rear end going? the car pulls hard and doesn't slip or shift funny at all... just sounds like a grinding and only does it on hard launches....

v10viper04

any ideas?

v10viper04

anyone?

v10viper04

Ok i'm thinking about just getting the 350 bored to a 355 and ditching the dish pistons for some flat tops(bump compression), and going with a cam like a XE274, and leaving the heads alone besides the cutting required for the larger cam, some 1.6 roller rockers, RPM vortec intake, Holley 600 cfm double pumper, it will have the headers from dynodon and will be 3" back. How much hp do you think it will make?

v10viper04

Ok it has been awhile since i have posted but the car is up for the winter and i want to start modding. I think considering the price of a stroker i won't be able to go that route, so i want to have my valve guides cut to accept the XE274 cam and buy an edelbrock RPM performer intake, also i'm gonna go with a Holley carb(not sure the CFM yet), Dyno dons headers and a 3" cat back. Also i want to bore the motor .030" over and install flat top pistons and throw out the Dish pistons so i get more compresssion. How much power do you think i'll be making? Thanks

hotrod7687

With that combo I would guess somewhere in the 350 flywheel HP range.

Just me, but I would go a little bigger on the carb with that cam and setup. I'd go with a 750, and you can always jet it down if its too much.

v10viper04

Well i don't want to pay too much if i don't have to. I wish there was a dyno around here but there isn't. i'm not too familier with carbs, wish someone knew how to tune them well that i knew.

v10viper04

So how does a bore job (.030) over sound for about $350 bucks? The guy said he'll replace the cam bearings, the plugs, and clean the block and bore it for that price. That's the total price wit hthe block handed back to me he said. What do you guys think? Thanks