creepingdeath

Came across a video on you tube http://youtube.com/watch?v=ijlPwA7W29M&feature=related Ive never seen anyone port there heads like this but i think thats an awsome idea. Usually people port there heads to match their gaskets but i think this would be a much better way to do it then you could just shave your gaskets to match your intake ports. What do you guys think?

AlkyIROC

It's a Ford. Chev doesn't have such mismatched porting.

creepingdeath

lol, is that a joke or is it true?

Vader

Must be a joke, especially with aftermarket intakes. I've seen factory heads and factory intakes off over 1/8" (you know it's bad when you can use a ruler instead of a caliper).

I particularly enjoyed that video. Typical jacklegTV mentality;

1. [*]
2. [*]
3. [*]
4. [*]

O.K., maybe not that last one, but the list goes on..

Stop watching so much TV and start talking to machinists and engine builders. They're usually not in it for the face time.

creepingdeath

Well i didn't particularly like his method or materials and tools but the dea is there. I personally would use a sturdier material for a template (copper/brass sheet) And im with you on the steel ball pein hammer lol i was thinking the same thing when i saw that . I would think a carbide burr would just through that in a second, If it were me id probably use only a 40 grit taper roll. My gf has a friend (yes also a female) who is a journeyman (journeywomen? lol) machinist and she runs her fathers business. I always ask her about machining stuff and shes always got good answers, But sometimes little sh*t like that can teatch you alot even if there method sucks.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i think its better to match the intake ports to the head ports for best smooth airflow. Gasketmatching can work but doesnt always aline right for most ports and you remove more material than you have to. In my HSR case, the manifold doesnt align all that well to the AFR head ports, its too short. I plan to open up the intake manifold ports alittle to line up with the AFR's since i have room to do so.

I really dont wanna touch the AFR head ports tho since i may do a different intake down the road. I dont use paper gaskets, i use liquid gasket as it seals better atleast in my case with my HSR. standard 1205's dont line up exactly with AFR ports anyway so its nice to use the RightStuff to get a custom fit

creepingdeath

you use liquid gasket for your whole intake? I only use it on the corners..

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Matching intake ports is about 95% pure monkey-spank.

It's for people who are easily distracted by shiny things: those who can't tear themselves away from the obvious "eye candy", however useless it is, to see the hidden un-glamorous REAL important issues.

The 95% of head work that ACTUALLY accomplishes something, is smoothing the bowls, contouring (NOT lowering) the "short side" radius, trimming the guide to a cone or mound with no sharp edges and shaping it into an airfoil-like shape, opening the throat of the port to about 85% but NO MORE THAN 90% of the valve diameter, removing parting lines between casting sections in the bowl and far end of the runner, contouring the push rod pinch, smoothing the roof of the port especially the area between the guide and the "common wall", laying back the side of the chamber next to the intake valve so that the chamber doesn't shroud the valve, getting rid of sharp edges in the chamber, and maybe a few other details I'm too lazy to type.

THEN AND ONLY THEN, once the IMPORTANT stuff has been taken care of, you can sometimes gain a tiny bit of flow by appropriate "gasket matching".

I say "appropriate" because I've also seen people take heads and "gasket match" them to entirely INappropriate gaskets (stock heads to a 1206 type thing), such that the port is however small through the intake, then sort of "balloons" out at the junction with the head, then shrinks back down again. VERY VERY bad for fuel atomization, BSFC (and therefore both gas mileage AND emissions), and low-RPM behavior (because of sluggish air movement in that "ballooned" out bulb in there), while accomplishing EXACTLY NOTHING toward performance.... because the limit to the overall flow is always the SMALLEST or the SHARPEST BEND point in the system, and NOT just the easiest one to see.

creepingdeath

Well if you saw in the video there was a huge diffrence in the head port compared to the intake port i would say 3/16"s to a 1/4" it looked like if it were that bad i would think you would lose alot of power.. plus how do you know your gasket is perfect? he's matching the exact shape of his intake ports to his head ports witch in my eyes would be the biggest restriction in the intake let alone the little tiny bumps and roughness you find in stock heads. there would be a huge loss of air velocity with that big ridge, Every slight bump or little tiny ridge makes a diffrence. You can gain 15-20hp just by smoothing your stock heads, polishing the combustion chamber and exhuast ports can yeild even more. So i can't see how matching your intake mani to your heads would not make a significant diffrence in airflow?? anyone disagree?? I work with a guy who used to be a motorbike mechanic and he used to port dirtbikes and street bikes heads all the time and he siad that matching your head ports to your intake mani would be one of the most important things to do while porting your heads.. and only under a certian circumstance can one side be slighty diffrent to make vacuum almost making a very slight supercharging effect. Also in this months "hot rod" mag there was a gu who port polished intake manifolds for a living and he even talked about the same thing!
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Plus everyone should know about rapidley expanding and compressing air, it slows it down generously and i would say not matching the intake to the head would have that exact effect. Physics 101

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yes...

Look at a cross-section of a head port sometime. Or, if you have nothing better to do, just cut one in half with a hacksaw. You'll find that the SINGLE LARGEST part of the port, AS CAST, is ..... you guessed it .... the gasket flange. So, how much good will dinking with that part, even if you'd "think" that it "looks like" it would flow more by messing with, ACTUALLY do?

On a bike motor, I won't argue, maybe your friend is right. On a stock small block Chevy head, .... not hardly.

And, keep in mind, the guy in Not Rod magazine, WASN'T talking about taking a stock Chevy small block head, and just going to town on the gasket surface with a die grinder, first thing. No. Without a doubt, ALL THAT OTHER STUFF I talked about up there, was ALREADY done!! In other words, the 95% was ALREADY taken care of, now it was time to clean up the last 5%. In which case, yes, maybe, done right, there's gains to be had.

But to just grab a head and start hacking on the intake port BEFORE maxing out the rest of it as described above, is a waste of perfectly good abrasive. All it does is make people who don't know what they're doing, the ones who "think" that doing that "looks like" it's accomplishing something, the ones that can't look past the glittery shiny thing up front to see the real guts of the matter lurking in the dark, get stars in their eyes and start writing checks and telling everybody else at the McDonalds parking lot about how great it is.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i dont think we are talking about head porting/etc. We are talking about gasket matching vs port matching. We know porting the head is where the gains are at, and should be done first, but you cant sit there and tell me that having mismatched manifold to cylinder head port will NOT hurt performance. having a 1/8 inch by 1.25" piece of metal sticking out into the path of air will disrupt flow. its taking up area in the port!

I'm against some gasket matching since it does sometimes create that ballooning effect of the ports. however, matching the ports together for best transistion between the parts seems like a no brainer to me. Its like saying its ok to have a rectangular port line up against a oval port. Clearly a mismatch in shape will hinder airflow

chesterfield

I agree, but if a 1/8" by 1.25" piece of metal sticking into the air path disrupts flow, then wouldn't port matching by itself improve flow?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats what i mean, if there is part of the head port in the runner path, then you can port match and take out that piece to improve the transistion.

in my case, my HSR is 1/8 short, so i have less available runner space than what the AFR 195cc port offers. So i'm gonna open up the HSR port to match the dimensions of the AFR head port so i get the best transisition possible to the head

creepingdeath

Exactly, I know that an important part of porting is taking the large area out of the 90* lifter guide part (i have a book that has a huge section on port/polishing heads and it has a chopped in half port for referance) but the author used gasket matching witch i think would be less accurate than actually exactly matching your aftermarket intake witch is alot better shaped than your factory heads and matching them together.. I know this guys methods seem crude but there is a better way to do it and its gotta be better then gasket matching!

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I have a few books on head porting as well, and they all agree with sofakingdoms stuff. Short turn and bowl work is where the power is. Gasket matching is just a feel good thing.
The important thing is to know where most of the airflow is taking place. You can scallop out and clean up the port floor and all you'll do is get grinding dust on your clothes and have a nice feeling of satisfaction (notice I didn't say you'd be driving faster?). Most of the airflow hugs the port roof, then transitions in the bowl and hugs the short turn.

That 1/8"x1.25" part is typically in the area where there is little flow. Also, if the head port is bigger than the intake port (typically the case) then there's not much going on there. It's when the intake port is BIG and the head port is small, that's when port matching is important.

I loved doing the gasket flange area. It's so EASY! The little 3" carbide burr doesn't chatter or vibrate, you can see your work, it's great fun! I don't think I even bothered to match my ports, but this spring I think i'll take some time and clean up the intake ports on my manifold. Just because I have the time, and I've gone over my heads COMPLETELY.


There, save yourself buying vizards head porting book - that's all the info in a nutshell right there.

ploegi

Oh, Oh, Can we get pictures and diagrams?

creepingdeath

Pictures and diagrams on what?

always tinkerin

iTrader: (1)

Great advice sofakingdom! I had to chuckle at the crude method by which this gentleman in the video was port matching, but you'd be suprised to learn how many people have been doing this.
Everyone has their own methods, but this is what works for me.
MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE YOUR CYLINDER HEADS INTAKE PORTS ARE COMPLETELY FINISHED BEFORE ATTEMPTING THIS METHOD!!!
This is a long but accurate process to help match your manifold to FINISHED heads:
Strip the head down to bare casting (no valves). Strip block down (no rotating assy.) Bolt bare heads to block with the gasket you will eventually use. Flip block upside down and scribe bore shape onto head to see how the chamber/intake valve/bores can be unshrouded (whole other discussion later).
Back to intake gasket matching...flip engine back upright.
Lay the intake gasket U will use into place (don't use sealants yet). Hopefully, you have a line of sight intake like a super victor or something of that nature. slide the intake fore and aft to get the ports (don't worry about the gasket...it's the ports you need to match) to line up. You can slot the bolt holes to get them to line up if need be. When you get as many common walls of ports lined up as you can, torque it down. Flip engine back upside down. Reach up into each cylinder and intake port with a scribe or fine tip sharpie and trace around each port.(I knew God gave me small hands for a reason...they're handy for getting the sharpie into the port). Remove intake and make sure the scribe marks transferred to the manifold. Use snap guages and/or dial calipers to measure cross section of the heads intake port and pushrod pinch areas. When gasket matching the intake manifold DO NOT open up ANY larger than your scribe lines or you WILL KILL FLOW!! You want to maintain the same cross sectional area through the intake as you have measured at the cylinder head. Snap guages make good go/no go guages for this.
When I'm done my ports match perfectly and I double check each port thoroughly and religiously to ensure that there are NO misalignments whatsoever.
Now that your ports match perfectly, you can trim the gasket! All this extra work for only 5-10 horses? Some extreme guys will do it. Guess I'm just wierd like that.
If your intake runners are significantly smaller in cross sectional area from the gasket all the way up to the plenum than your cylinder heads are, then you're better off getting a bigger intake. Most professionals like to see bare intakes that flow 115% CFM compared to the head to ensure the intake will not be the limiting restriction.
I was hoping to type a shorter explanation, but this is a "safe" method that works for me.
This is not for the beginner or faint of heart...it's so easy to ruin an intake and/or hurt flow , so be BE CAREFUL!!! (And don't tell the Ford guys)

Vader

Diagrams? See any differences??

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

nice diagram. heres some more i found when i considered porting my stock heads

Links
http://www.mondellotwister.com/ArtPtngAtHme.htm
http://www.mondellotwister.com/ArtHeadPort.htm

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ads/index.html

http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.aspx



valve guide


shortside radius

creepingdeath

I understand that the valve guide boss area is the most important! the reason i made this post was port matching rather than gasket matching i never siad that porting out the rest of your ports was a bad idea or anything lol. those are good diagrams btw i got a book that has a 3d diagram like those.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Vader:Well, they didn't fix that rocker arm... it's still a POS

Vader

Oh, Pharoh of Furiiture, I must take exception.

POS? Whaddy mean, POS? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to stamp rubber? It's a technological marvel, like plastic cam sprockets, and one-ply tires, and plastic headlight lenses, and cars with driving wheels on the front end, and mirrors which make objects appear farther...

On the "up" side, at least the factory stamped rockers will last longer than the pretty aluminum ones. And it's a good thing we don't run graphical images of heads on our engines, or we'd have to start calling them "Chryslers" or something.

Damon

Anyone ever shove a bore scope down their intake with it bolted up? I have. Some mismatches can be frightening. I never liked having intake ports protruding into the airstream- just looks wrong, gotta hurt airflow. Those I fix at the head. But, as has been mentioned above, the intake is usually smaller than the head, and I don't usually mess with it if that's the case.

Opening up the entrance to the intake port and measuring the improvement on a flow bench yields basically nothing, since that's not the restriction point (and is often tested with a nice clay radius mooshed on around it that matches the port opening perfectly, regardless of what shape or size that opening is). But the flow of the entire intake as a system does matter- that's where having nasty sharp edges hanging out in the breeze can hurt airflow in the real world. A perfect match is best. But if a perfect match can't be achieved then it's far better to have the intake manifold exit be smaller than the intake port. Having the intake port too small, with edges hanging out into the airflow does hurt airflow and performance. Fortunately, that is not usually the case. Unless you are wasting your time trying to go fast with Ford parts, of course.

FLow benches measure constant airflow at a relatively low velocity compared to what the running engine sees at high RPM. You're talking about intake pulses that can move air at close to half the speed of sound. You can imagine the pressure wave that would be caused by an intake port opening hanging out in the airflow at those kind of velocities. Air likes to move in straight lines without bumping into things. Especially true when it's moving really freakin' fast.

What the guy did in that video is valid for the mismatch he was dealing with (intake manifold opening bigger than the head). I think even I, King of Cheesy Hot Rodding Procedures, could have done it a bit better, however. The steel hammer had the hairs on the back of my neck standing on end, too. Plus he needed to locate the paper template using at least TWO bolt holes, not just one! But the basic procedure and the end result are still valid.