//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

probably a dumb question, so flame me if you want, but is there a way to get a ballpark idea of how much horsepower/torque you have at the wheels based on what you have at the flywheel?

if so and you want to humor me
i have 501.8hp and 520.5lb/ft at the flywheel, that was dynoed with a mechanical waterpump, and no other accessories.
I have a tko600 and a stock 10 bolt with 3:73's
and obviously a alternator, waterpump, and powersteering

im just curious, dont know of any local dyno's

z28freak84

probably about 400-415rwhp. You typically lose about 14% through a tko. But figure a little less for your powersteering and alternator.....It oughtta fly!

Also, What is your full engine combo? Just curious as to what you used to get your 500HP.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

its a 408 stroker, 4.030 bore, 4" stroke
hydraulic roller
10.44 compression
dart pro1 200cc heads 64cc chambers
compcams xr 288hr-10
1.6 rockers
modified 750cfm 4150 holley
edelbrock rpm airgap manifold

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Is that a stock 350 SBC block that you managed to get a 4" stroke crank in? Or an aftermarket block? Were the pistons ultra $$$?

I'd say closer to 375RWHP. You're down to 470 if you're lucky after accessories, then 15-20% before wheels. Chassis dyno would tell you for sure. Either way, must get up out of it's own way...

z28freak84

NO WAY! A TKO or T56 does NOT lose that much. AFTER the accessories are added, you are looking at like 12-13% through a TKO and a 10 bolt.

And at 15% of 470 you still come up with 400rwhp.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

only 500hp from that 408... i woulda figured more.... wats the flow rates on those heads and ur cam specs?

usually a manual trans loses roughly 15% in drivetrain loss, an automatic is 20-24%.

a 10bolt is acutally a very good choice...even tho weak, they take less HP to operate vs, the heavy 12bolt/9bolt etc. by him using the stock 10bolt he will be putting more power to the ground if he can keep it alive. ive seen ppl disconect the altenator at the track and they gain 1-2 tenths. thats 10-20hp alone, the powersteering i would say the same. id say 30hp loss with the accessarys being at least 40hp would be a safe guesstimate. so figure 30- 501=471hp - 15%drivetrain = 400rwhp. which it will prob be alil less at the wheels. 400rwhp is about the max u can build a 10bolt to.
either way its gona be quickkkk!

im building a 383 hsr
9.5comp
195cc patriot aluminum heads flow 252cc intake .5 lift/183cc exhaust .5 lift....263cc intake/184cc exhaust at .6 lift
compcams XFI280 cam....230/236 duration at .5 .567/.570 lift 113lobe
1.6 full roller extruded aluminum rockers
im thinking of total seal piston rings for great vacume and increased HP
30# SVO injectors
HSR... mild porting, holley rails/adjustable regulator
58mm TB
custom chip
exhaust is in my sig...true duals, headman LT's, xpipe 3"

im hoping for 500hp.... but ill prob get 480hp... what do u tkink?
i want your numbers lol.

z28freak84

Custom, you could probably get close to 500hp too. Your heads are gonna flow a decent amount better than out-of-the-box PRO-1 200's, but the cam is gonna be down 15hp or so over 86Ta's cam of choice. Ability to tune the combo with EFI will be the limiting factor. You will likely have less due to this. Good Luck. Get it tuned and make that 375rwhp.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks for the reply z28freak84...originally i had the GM hot cam but i sent it back i wanted moreeeee power lol, this is gona be a daily driver so i wanted it to still be streetable with alil lope im kinda worried about tuning the combo myself and was thinking about having it tuned else where, any good places?
pcm for less, or something? i hope to get 375-380rwhp should be a nice feeling over a stock L98

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

custom i'd bump up a full point in compression with aluminum heads and that cam

but yes i can see near 400whp with that 408.

I'll let you know tho cuz a local guy here is dynoing his T&L 408 stroker tommorrow. his was rated at like 495hp crank. he has same motor as you but with smaller cc306 cam. ran 110mph in the 1/4 mile so we think it has 350-360whp.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

mines from T and L as well, so let me know how your friend motor does, and it will give me a good idea about mine.
----------
its a factory roller block, and the overall price was very good, the engine with upgrades, MSD digital e-curve, carb, wires, plugs, dynoed and delivered was just a hair over 6300 bux

z28freak84

Custom, I would only use someone like pcm4less to get it running. Then I would buy everything to burn your own chips...Trial and error is the only way it will ever be right.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

ok thanks, wat is the price of there chips now lol and what would i have to get to burn my own? part #'s please i really appreciate it

as far as the comp ratio, i was keeping it low to run pump gas and maybe in the future throw alil boost at it , i kno 9.5 is high for boost and 8-8.5 would be ideal, but i dont want it to be a dog just incase i dont ever throw boost at it and who knows how long that will take wats the max comp for 92 octane? 10-10.5? right now im payin almost 3$ a gallon and i only get 10 mpg city just cruzin

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

just saying 9.5 with aluminum is kinda low. if it was iron it be fine but aluminum sucks heat more from the chamber than iron does. but for boost or nitrous that compression will be fine


to burn your own chips this is what i got

http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=41

that is to allow chip swapping to the stock ecm.


http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=48
this is to burn the chips via usb port on a laptop or other computer
it came with tunerpro RT but they want you to register it for 30 bucks. i havent yet. also has tunerpro on the disk i think which is free else you can download it for free

I got this to datalog to see what the ECM is doing
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...roducts_id=127

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

geez i need all that!.... id burn it on a laptop, so wat do i need? the chips and the adapter? my chip also doesnt look like that... its a firebird formual 350 and ive swaped the chip a few times with a motorvation strip chip and it doesnt look like that. the camaro has a diff chip i thought

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

well inorder to get the moates style chip burner and chips to work you need their adapter that plugs into where the stock chip goes and the memcal i think plugs into the side of the adapter.

then the burner just plugs into the laptop and your good to go burn chips

ecms for firebird/camaro are the same

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

not sure if the dyno was reading low today or not but he only put down 308whp on that 408 with cc306 cam (230/244) flat hp curve all the way from 5300 to near 6000rpms i think it was. put down 421whp on a 150 shot so idk if that motor was overated or not. cc306 LT1's put down 340-350whp on stock heads

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

hmmm, AFAIK all the engines from T and L are dynoed before they leave so i dont see how they can underrated, was it out of tune or something?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like the motor was running out of air at 5300rpm. As far as the chasis dyno and the motor dyno there would be a difference in the exhaust systems, accessories and air intake system.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

well the inches can tame that cam but the compression and heads/intake should flow plenty of air for that car. it may be out of tune and need some tuning and i'm not sure of the airfuel ratio on it, but its not gonna make another 50whp. thats for sure.

i really dont know what to say. i only made 254 today and expected mid 260's but i'm lean as hell so that could have been it or else the dyno wasnt reading right or readign low

he said his engine was rated 495 from T and L. but he is running shorty headers and 3inch flowmaster 80 series. that kills some power for sure. Then again, i dont see 495hp from a cc396 408 with those heads/intake and compression

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, there you go eh?
Dyno's are heartbreakers. You very rarely get to say "wow, that's WAY more than what I calculated/guessed/etc. Just set your hopes low, then walk away satisfied. HP can disappear through a lot of different ways remember. Altitude, temperature that day, oil type, etc etc.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

based on 3470lbs and 103.8 mph trap speeds i expected 265whp or so. seems reasonable for that mph. buddies 408 car only went 110mph so i figured he wasnt gonna make no 375whp as thought, but i expected 330-340whp for sure given that he weighs probly heavier than my car since he has 12bolt and stereo/subs

327???

I'd say the dyno is reading low or his car needs a little tuning, or both. The air when you made the dyno run may have been garbage, you know how much effect the air has.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

well last dyno run of 246 it was june 30th or somewhat in the high 70s possibly 80 degrees. i know it was warm

today it was cold in the morning but i didnt run til 3 so it was around mid 60's i believe. i probly would have trapped 101-102 in this weather i'd guess so maybe 254 is right and on that one low DA day, i might have been making 265whp or so when i went 103

either way something didnt seem right about his numbers. mine werent to far off. i should have stayed to see what that LS1 car was doing... most LS1's with fulll exhaust/bolt ons dyno 330-335whp here.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

so where did you go to dyno? im looking for one in the area

z28freak84

At least 30 hp to be had by adding Hooker lt's and 3" X-pipe with bullets.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i went to Hybrid Dynamics..a well known import tuner shop that does the Pittspeed dyno day events. they will dyno anything tho except AWD and duallie pickups since those wont fit in there

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

dyno vid of the 408. last run is on the sauce
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpFq7s5peU

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

hmmm, that car sounds WAY tamer than mine, and we have a similar exhaust, i have spl ceramic shorties and a 3" flowmaster with no cat.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

What do they charge to use the dyno there and where in Pittsburgh are they? I'm in Johnstown PA and would love to run my car out there once I get it finished up and verify the numbers I'm getting from the calculations.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its in youngwood PA right off rt 119. go thru greensburg and then off to youngwood..pretty easy to get there.

they charge like 60 bucks for 3 pulls if your on pittspeed.com. else its like 70 i think. on dyno days that pittspeed does its only 50.



and yes that motor sounds tame. CC306 isnt that aggressive for a big inch motor like that. on a 350 tho its a bad **** cam. he wants to step up a cam. i suggested the 288hr which was 236/242 but i'd like to see the xfi 242 cam in there. thats the motor i want to build... a 408 like that with 10.5-11 to 1 compression and xfi 242 cam

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

This guy Ben that I met turned me on to a company called TurboTrix over in Edison, New Jersey. Now, they specialize w/4G63's, but they do have a dyno however. You can always ask them to see if they'll help you out....