Ford2transam

I've been trying 2 get my 83 T/a with a 305 Quadajet with Accel module,rotor,cap and wires on time. I've started at 5 deg and worked my way up (about 1/4 deg at a time) to 7.5deg.......... still hestating when i give it gas back fireing when i let off (Sometimes) and when i start her up she sumtimes die when i give her gas at a dead start(norm take off) ne tips on what the timing should be? My sticker says 6 deg at 500 rpms, a freind told me 10 - 15 deg, when i have the comp hooked up it idles around 7 -8 degs.
Any of your Experence Gearheads lord of the motors Know exactly what it should be?? (the car COMPLETELY stock exept the Accell i said and a new Maf Sensor)
Help... please... It's really getting agitating trying to be patence and trying trail n error. and i have no hills around (I live in flat Tampa FL) so i can't hear pinging, right now at 7.5 it'll hestate a little (when warmed up about 200 degs)then roar off...but when in drive it'll backfire (out the exhaust) MOSTLY not ALL the time... wtf going on!?!?!?!

Cowboy

ryan91rs

iTrader: (1)

I had the same problem with my 84. my problem was the carb. is it running rich or lean?

Ford2transam

i hooked up the comp and it says it runs lean at idle and rich when i rev it up

ryan91rs

iTrader: (1)

well i can't tell you from here. those years are so crazy it could be anything. but carb or computer are usually the two bigger ones. does the torque converter lock up?

Ford2transam

Lock up??? I seems like it slips from time to time
rev up to about 2500 when i punch it from time 2 time

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Stock setting is 6° BTDC (advanced) with the big connector hanging out the back of the dist unplugged. Warm the car up fully, shut the motor off, unplug it; start the car, it will run terrible and light the check engine light. Set the timing to 6° BTDC. Shut the motor back off. Plug the connector back in.

The timing will go to around 22° BTDC at idle with the connector plugged back in.

It will go as high as the high 40s if you watch it as various RPMs with the car sitting still.

Since you don't have control of that (that's the ECM's job), put it at the stock setting as described, lock it down, and forget about it for the time being.

The difference between 5° and 7½° is totally negligible, as far as affecting any sort of behavior you can actually observe. I doubt that it would even make 25 RPM of difference to the idle speed.... the most sensitive indicator you've got. It's hair-splitting. "measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe"

If it's showing 5 or 6 or 7 degrees of advance with the connector plugged in, you have it about 15-20° retarded from where it belongs; which would then be no surprise that it runs like crap in all sorts of ways, with it mis-adjusted THAT BAD. Follow the instructions on the tag, as described.

Carbed cars don't have a MAF sensor. You therefore couldn't possibly have a new one. What did you ACTUALLY replace? Why? That is, what indication did you have that it needed whatever it was?

If your sticker says 6°, it's probably a L69 (HO). Those usually run better with a little more advance than stock; maybe up to as much as 10°.

The flat spot / hesitation / whatever when you suddenly floor the gas, is a carb issue. It is caused by inadequate fuel feed at that instant. Even working perfectly, the computerized carb system, in stock trim, is RIGHT ON THE RAGGED EDGE of doing that; as part of its emissions design, required to make the ancient carb meet the increasingly stringent standards of the time. Having the timing retarded like you've got it will make it MUCH worse.

Not sure about "hooked up the computer"? The car has NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER of running right without it. However, lean at idle and rich during accel, is normal.

Damon

What Sofa said about how to set the timing. GOTTA do it that way or you'll be WAY retarded from where it should actually be.

Ford2transam

I asked foor good advice and thank you sofakingdom,
I'll repond 2 a few things...
-"Hooked up the Computer" was refering to the Actron OBD1
-The hestation I fiannally fixed being what I was calling the MAF sensor.... It may be MAP sensor i'm thinking of, located on the firewall in front of the drivers side with an emmission line(the problem) and a electric connection.
-That sensor was replaced when I "Hooked up the comp" (The Actron) and it read the code and said "Maf sensor low volts" I misread and replaced it instead of checking for leaks
-Has to my engine being an HO I know it's Vin H (if that helps) and more info or where I can Post to find out more about it would be greatly appreceated
-Lastly, when I set the timing I dissconnect the single wire on the passenger side (Near front wheel)I have never seen a "Big Connection" behind the dist. I do have HEI could you be talking about a diffrent set up?
Thanks agian for you advice

Damon

You have a single wire timing disconnect on an L69 HO carbureted motor?? Never seen one of them except on TPI and TBI 3rd gens. All carbureted V8 3rd gens use a computer controlled large cap HEI distributor with a big flat wiring connector sticking out the back that goes into the main wiring loom running over top of the tranny bellhousing. ALL of them were like that, no exceptions that I'm aware of. That big flat connector is what you need to unplug before setting base timing.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

VIN code H = LG4 (definitely NOT L69 ) just the base model low-perf motor.

No MAF sensor on a carb car. No such thing. Believe that. MAF = Mass Air Flow; exists only on FI cars. You DO have a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor, which matches your description; on the firewall, near the brake booster, 3 wires and one vacuum line. That's probably what it was. I've never seen one go bad (not taht they can't); the vacuum line to it however, often turns to dust and crumbles. Those archaic OBD1 systems use the same code #s to indicate different things, depending on what motor it was; so you have to interpret the codes in light of what system you've got. Just like, if you had FI and one of the possible interpretations of the codes was "mixture control solenoid", you can be pretty sure that wouldn't apply to your FI car, because only carbs have those.

The connector for doing the timing thing is a big flat plug with about 4 or 5 wires. NOT a 1-wire plug. It hangs out of the distributor, should be at the back of it, if the dist is still in the original orientation with the power & tach wires straight toward the driver's side. It's usually dangling halfway down into the trans tunnel back there, not out in the open at all. You can feel around the back of the base of the dist and find it though. Whatever 1-wire connector you're unplugging, is NOT the right one. If it's a single orange wire near the batt, that's the power to the ECM. That will have some completely other effect.

We're talking about a computer-controlled HEI. Same thing ALL the computer carb cars had up until 87. That's what you've got, same as all the rest of em.

Ford2transam

well you got my hope up a little but i figgred it couldn't been High perf. I'll look for that plug you where telling me about down the trans tunnel. but just wondering what effects would be diffrent? Has long has the Computer's not advancing the timing when i manually turn the dist. it would be the same thing..? Wouldn't it or is unpluggin the single wire unpluggin other items that needs 2 be on.

85cam

I hate to say this but the best thing you can actually do now is get a chilton or haynes manual for your car. they have pictures and very detailed descriptions on how to set the timing and stuff for your car.

Damon

You need to unplug that connector to remove all COMPUTER-SUPPLIED timing so you can set the BASE/INITIAL timing accurately by turning the distributor. The computer is adding timing on top of that base setting, even at idle.

6* BTDC is stock for an L-69 once you've unplugged the connector.

Ford2transam

Well if you read one repley post I have a LG4 motor not a L69(which would be more fun ) so for me it's irrelavent
On the connector, which one you talking about? the single wire or the big connector? I know the singly wire does disable the comp. ability to set timing. The big connection from what everyone says will to I havn't had time to reset it like that tho

Ford2transam

I Live and breath by my Haynes (Will get Chiltons if i happend by one) but if you read the Haynes it says Go by the VECI Label and If you look at the wire it says to disconnect....... it's the one wire, NOT the big connector... but A LOT of people say the big connector so are we all wrong? or all right? and the effects the same?
I'm Challenging someone to explain to me the diffrence between the plugs? It's not life threating but still... I'm the cat that curoisity killed. My guess it the big plug affects only the the dist. and the one wire disconnects the comp completely...?

SpitotRs305

no i am not 100% sure about which single wire plug you are undoing i mean could be a plug for a Fuel pump... however if you are setting you base timing to stock? 6° what ever the number isnt important right now.. BUT when you reconnect what ever it was that you had disconnected what does the timing do... does it stay where you have set the base or much more advanced than the initial setting

naf

iTrader: (7)

Check your Haynes carefully. The reference to disconnecting a single wire should be for a different model engine. The big plug only affects timing advance for the LG4/L69 and is the one to disconnect when setting base timing.

If you've set base timing with it connected and it's as retarded as we suspect you may have trouble getting the engine to run with this plug disconnected now (it will retard it even more). If that's the case, check your timing with everything connected and turn the distributor until you have approximately 20-24 degrees at idle. You may have to estimate. Then disconnect the plug to set base timing appropriately.

Ford2transam

I went back to double check and it says and I quote,
"Locate VECI lbel under the hood and read throughand perform all preliminary instuctions......IF instructed by the VECI label, place the Electronic spark timing(EST) in bypass mode by disconnecting single wire connector....Do not disconnect the four wire connector to distributor"
(So I don't get arrested or whatever it's a quote from Haynes Manul part number 79019, page 1-27 chapter 34 and the "...." represent things I left out)
and that single wire on my car looks to be orange but the book says it's tan w/ a black stripe but the VECI sticker (to the best of my memory) dosn't say anything about disconnecting anything... but we all know we have to, I think i'll just keep doing what the book says to..... and the book doesn't specify any diffrent motors aside from v8/v6/and 4 bangers
Cowboy

Ford2transam

When you unplug the single wire plug it does diasable the spark advance (I noticed your check engine light comes on also) then you can turn the dist and adjust your timing. Then when you reconnect the timing is controlled by the comp. I have noticed no matter what i have the engine set on, the comp atomatically jump it to about 8 deg. (Same RPM) Should I set it on the 8? I'm at about 7 now and it does backfire slightly... almost a burbble on a down shift that mean i need to advance or retard?
Cowboy

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The Haynes is wrong if it says anything about "single wire connector" and attempts to connect that with your car. That's the instructions for some other car. Ignore them. They don't apply to yours.

Put the single wire back, leave it alone, and don't worry about what it does when you mess with it. Forget about it.

Then do it the right way, with the big 4- or 5-wire plug that hangs out the back of the distributor. Set it to 6°, or even 7° or 8° (it won't make a hill of beans worth of difference in the big picture), like it's supposed to be, doing it the way it's supposed to be set. Note that it will then go to 22° give or take a few when you plug that plug back in. If it does that, then all of the electronics are doing what they're supposed to do.

Once you get that done, THEN AND ONLY THEN, it will be time to worry about "burble". Meanwhile, you're wasting your time, with the ignition timing out in some unknown ozone layer somewhere.

Ford2transam

Okay You've convinced me.. I'll use the large connector and re-set my timing, For the 6,7,8 I'll just follow my VECI sticker and set it to 6. I'll give ya'll and up date in a day or so on what happend and if work I'll kneel to you SoFakingDom ;0)

Cowboy
p.s. I've noticed the Haynes being wrong on so many of the details, is the Chilton's any better or just put up the bucks and get the dealer catolog?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No kneeling required, I can assure you.

Can't tell you about the Chilton's; I have one somewhere, but don't use it for things like that. I also have the factory service manual from Helm Inc. www.helminc.com which, while it has issues all its own (especially, that it's designed for dealer flat-rate techs servicing infantile-type defects on brand-new cars, as opposed to hobbyists or DIYers doing long-term or restorative maintenance) is at least proofread by somebody that is familiar with the cars in question.

But in general, the people on this BBS at least have experience and all that, even if there's disagreement about some things; you can trust most of us, unlike th epublishers of manuals, to have at least seen the car before.

Ford2transam

IIght ya'll I been meaning to update I found some new acdelco wires I bought and hadn't installed and a hugh diffrence over the Accel...Accel wires I had on mambe... 3-4 months? I'll stick to Acdelco's from now on Then I set the base timing (using the big plug) I looked everywhere... turns out it was about 4 in away from the dist not in my tunnel.. LoL half an hour of dirt n grime for nothing... allwells and the motor's a purring and growlin NICE it does have a slight hestation every now and then but it's gotta be the 23 year old fuel pump. Now to pay attention to the trans (Slips a little... the motor will rev up to about 4,500 grand and not really take off like it outta) Thank all of ya for your hints tips and suggestion and you'll see me on the transmission board now Cowboy

SpitotRs305

how is the car launching at 4500 hard or taking off like an old lady?

is your TV cable adjusted properly?

Ford2transam

depends on what she feels like mostly like an old lady....tv cable?

SpitotRs305

well now... i believe there should be a extra cable attached to your throttle lever on the carb... it is the T.V. cable also a kick down cable... it allows the transmission to determine throttle angles and engine load... helps select the proper gear... and can cause all types of crazyness if out of wack your hanyes manual has the proper method of adjusting it