Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Hey eveyrone, check this out. By getting some headers, cat-back, new cat , intake, heads, cam and lifters, all bolt on, these guys got a tired 84 L69 305 that registered 140 rwhp on the dyno when they got it up to 211 rwhp after the bolt on's were done. 71hp for about $1k invested in a car they paid $1000 dollars for. Not that great, but for those who can't afford or don't want/need to upgrade to a 350 or get a rebuild, it's not too shabby.

Mike's Performance Shop Small Block Bolt Ons

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

not that impressed with trick flow heads/cam/intake swap for 211 hp... i think they could make alot more than 211 whp with a cam and intake swap.. especially with heads

but definately shows what a full exhaust system will do! good gains there as with all thirdgens

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Even considering the California emissions they had to keep in line with?

I do agree about the exhaust though. THat's one swap that's really a no-brainer.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

well emissions is something i missed...i admit i didnt read the article just scanned thru quickly... 211 whp is what some stock L98's dyno so i guess that not too bad but i do know of a few guys making alot higher numbers and yet retaining emissions legal status in cali. if that L69 was a roller motor i think it could make alot more power. Mw66nova or w/e his screen name is was in the low 12's ona n/a 305.. i think a mid-ow 13 second 305 could be emissions legal with the right mods. thats about 250whp

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

The motor and car was an 84 Camaro with the original L69 H.O. 305 (Roller didn't come out till 87) that has just under 75k miles which they picked up for $1000.

They did a tune up on it, basically changed the oil, plugs, wires, and then dynoed it and came up with 140 rwhp. Keeping it emissions legal they wanted to see what the bolt-ons would add and it came up to 71hp when they were done.

So, for 2k, they basically got an 84 Camaro with 75k miles on it that has 21 more HP at the rear wheels than the car originally had at the flywheel.

Grim Reaper

Those aren't bolt-ons. That's everything but the short block. And all for $1,000? The cheapest TrickFlow 175cc heads are $995 alone in the most recent Summit catalogue. Then the full cat-back exhaust ($319 for the cheapest cat-back for a 3rd Gen F-body in Summit's catalogue) & TES headers ($439.95), cam ($102 for flat tappet), lifter ($70) & Performer Intake ($139) plus a set of "top-end" gaskets ($100) - that's already almost $1,200 and what about taxes? I don't know about you, but I have to pay taxes on everything I buy. Plus there is a lot of other "little things" they haven't mentioned. Like, would you leave the old timing chain in after taking an old engine apart? How about the water pump too? And I'm sure they didn't use the old original carb. Plus plugs, wires, distributor cap, K&N filter...

Sorry, but I've identified at least 2,500 for the parts, and probably closer to $3,000 when you get start replacing old worn out parts like the timing chain, water pump, starter, carb, etc.

Another typcial story where they hope people don't take the time to add up the real cost. I say to $1,000 for the parts.

And for all that time & effort, all he was able to do was get it from 16.59 sec down to 15.49 sec. Not very fast after all that work. Sorry, but I'm not very impressed for the real amount of money spent.

online170

Guys keep in mind its a 305.... They didnt exactly pick the best mule to show that it can do the work. I think they are trying to show its not hard to go fast with little money. 15.49 is not all that quick, but you cant tell on the street, and the noise is probably pretty nice.

I spent $1500 on top of what i bought my car for $2000k and got alot of horses out of it. I spent the money on a custom 3" y-pipe to a cutout, headers, a well picked intake, and a holley carb. Kinda pricey for what i listed, but it was all new stuff, and i could have gotten it cheaper.

The catch is, the engine was mostly built up when i bought the car, 11:1 pistons, 284H cam, ported heads (with low compression though 74cc), and well built bottom end. All i did was un-restrict it.


I dont have numbers to show my progress, but lets just say the car feels alot lighter, and WILL NOT STOP PULLING!!!! I have to be careful not to put the idle to high ie: 1100 around, or the car will not decelerate and maintain almost any speed u take the foot off the gas on regular street driving.

Before it kinda felt like it ran outa power, fuel starved.


So!! I think the article is based more on power on a budget, and they are showing its not that hard, as opposed to showing off the impressive qualities of a 305....

Grim Reaper

I hate to say it (and the article alludes to it), but it kind of shows that trying to make any power out of it will be an expensive proposition with limited results.

My point is, they didn't only spend $1,000 on modifications (like the original poster claimed). It is more like $2,500-$3,000 on parts (and I didn't add the cost of all the tune-up parts like plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, coil etc)...plus other parts such as brakes, tires & shocks (which most likely needed changing on a 23 year old car).

The prices can easily be verified by opening the latest edition of Summit's catalogue and checking out the prices. And this is for parts only. If a person were to take it into a shop to have the work done, I would say double the price.

And before you say "it's a 305", well, they chose the car. You should not be making excuses for a the car they chose to build. I think it clearly shows how much money you can end up spending and still not get much in the way of performance.

In spite of all their modifications, it still can't touch most basically stock L98s. Had they spent the same money on an L98, they would definitely have a 13 second car.

Grim Reaper

I just noticed that they list all the parts used in the bottom of the article.

I didn't even think about them adding an MSD Ignition, catalytic converter, stud-mounted roller rockers, Billet timing set, chrome-moly pushrods. but I would say that list easily hits $3,000 especially when you add California's sales tax.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

When I read that article, I was NOT imressed with their results. I bought a bone stock L03 mill from a 1991 Cadillac Fleetwoood. Bolted long-tube headers, 2 1/2" duals, open center TBI spacer, AFPR, and 1.6:1 roller rockers onto the little L03. I put the engine into my 1980 C20 pickup with a 3spd TH-400. Converted the truck to TBI using a 427 PCM. Burned my own chip. On the Mustang Dyno it made 191 RWHP @ 4,300 and 273 RWTQ @ 2,900. So that means that my driveline had more drag, and they only out-powered stock TBI swirl ports by 20 RWHP. Had my L03 not been turning a TH400 and a 3.08 geared 12 bolt, things would be ALOT higher. I probably would have dyno'd 200ish RWHP.

Supervisor42

If they were truthful it would be titled:
305 + $3000 = 211 RWHP
Wow!
It's all a bunch of advertising to sell parts to stupid people.
How about this instead:
305 pulled + $800 J/Y L98 = 220 RWHP
But then you couldn't sell any bolt-on parts, now could you?
It's people like these that are responsible when you hear someone say:
"I've put too much money in the 305 to pull it out now..."

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

after looking thru that article, where does it say they spent 1000 bucks? I only see the original poster here mention it was 1000 bucks, which it is for the heads alone. I think they could have used a much bigger cam and make some good power. 211 hp is good enough for 14's with proper drag tire/converter/gears. But it is upwards of 3000 bucks or so to do what they did.
I'd spend another 500 and get a 350hp ZZ4 lol

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Porting the stock heads, 1.94" intake valves, new springs, cutting the guides, would yield about the same power for a lot less money.

This is the stuff we talk about here all the time. California emissions laws pretty much limit you to TES on an '84.

Chevy High Performance mag did a series "My Generation Camaro" a few years back with an '87 LG4. They really messed up and used LG4 headers on it, which required use of the LG4 EFE valve - huge restriction. After claiming similar gains for similar money, they admitted they had to replace the block due to cracking and rebuild the tranny, which of course didn't show up in the cost sidebar. They ended up going with a 350, still called it "California emissions legal" (a bit of a tap-dance), had good dyno numbers with standard dyno equipment, then it fell on it's face when put in the car with the crappy LG4 headers.

Then there's the old factory "HO 350 Camaro Conversion Kit" - emissions legal, but no longer offered. Duplicate that, and you'll have your 13-sec 1/4 miles.
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Exactly.