Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

I'm in the process of picking a cam, among other things, for my engine. Below is what have sent out to various cam manufactuers for recommendations. Every thing in bold I do not have yet, or is still open for change so let me know what you think.

1992 Chevrolet S-10
Vehicle Weight: 3300
Axle Ratio: 4.56
Transmission Type: Manual (’94-’97 GM F-body T-56)
Tire Height: 28

Reprogrammed Speed Density (’90-’92 GM F-body 1227730 ECM)

ENGINE INFORMATION
Engine Block Type: Chevrolet (“ZZ4” casting)
Engine Size:385
Bore:4.04
Stroke:3.75
Compression Ratio:10:1
Piston Type: Flat top 4cc (Probe SRS P/N: 12337-040)
Connecting Rod:6" I-Beams
Intake Manifold: Single-Plane MPFI (Accel Pro-Ram P/N: 74139 )
Throttle Body Size: 1,200cfm
Injector size: 36lbs./hr.

Cylinder Heads: AFR Eliminators (Haven't Purchased yet but pretty much made up my mind)
Head Part Number: 1036 (75cc Chamber, but open to suggestions)
Head Runner Volume: 195cc
Intake Valve Size: 2.05 (Can upgrade to 2.08)
Exhaust Valve Size: 1.60
Rocker Arm Type: Full Roller
Rocker Arm Ratio: (Waiting for cam spec recommendations)
Valve Springs: (Waiting for cam spec recommendations)

Exhaust Headers: Sanderson Shorties (Because of V8 S-10 swap with T56)
Exhaust Pipe Size: 1.5 Primaries, 2.5 Collectors

RPM Range Desired: 2200 to 6000

Fuel Octane Rating: 91

Type Of Cam: Hydraulic Roller

It will be daily driven, but taken to the drag strip as much as possible.

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Also has anyone used the Summit/MSD TPI "Ignition Upgrade Kits" Has a 6AL, Pro-Billet Distributor, Blaster Coil and all the wiring for $620.

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

The first cam Comp recomended was P/N 08-467-8:
230/236 Duration @ .050
280/288 Advertised Duration
.576/.570 Lift with factory rocker ratio
113 LSA

Since then I have made changes to the above setup and replied back to them, prolly will have another recomendation today.

Crane recomended P/N 109661 for the build list above.
230/238 Duration @ .050
292/300 Advertised Duration
.539/.558 Lift with factory rocker ratio
112 LSA

randomguy121

a 284/480 lift was plenty back when i had mine a "daily" driver. it dint relly lope though it just kindive crackled. but it had stock heads and the lower lift was better for my 2 speed powerglide. i dont know much about anything thats not carburated. and i dont know about you intake. what ever your intake prm rating is go with that as far as cam prm requirements. otherwise to might "load up" the engine

both the cams there telling you about is going to lope like a "mot er ck r" and is plenty for the cc you are running on your heads its going to come it a little later than 2000 though... wait its not solid lift. you low end should stay your lift and duration will be lower at an idle and lower prm,s (the hydraulic lifters wont give your cam full lift and duration at idle but as you rev the oil pressure will increase and pump your lifters up fully)

and the 208's might not be worth the money if you stayin with 195 cc runners. and check to see what the max lift is for the heads and springs. i read up on them and is sais somthing about .550 max lift. i think they sell a kit if you want to go more though. thats the way i understood it.

i got a set of RHS HEADS that go as high as .650 but there tripple valve spring
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oops missed it haha that thing is a stroker... you got your torqe right there. hahahaha

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Basic Operating RPM Range on the intake is 2,000-6,500. The COMP cam is 2,000-6,000, Crane is 2,600-2,600.

I've done decided I won't go with the 2.08 valve because they are only available in the Competition Package that has angle plugs.

The "basic" package springs max at .600 lift, but can be upgraded to .650 max lift springs.

With 1.6:1 rockers the Crane would have .574/.595 lift, COMP would have .614/.608.

SpitotRs305

okay dont listen to comp... as you arent talking to someone who has experience with every possible engine combo out there... nor do i but...

the cam you want is the 292XFI HR13 grind number 08-468-8 then you are going to want more compression... 10:1 isnt really going to cut it... i assume you plan on running a .039 rebuilder gasket? has the block been zero decked for those pistons?
you need to get your CR up around 10.5-11 to make good use of the cam

i would do anything possible to get a smaller CC combustion chaimber to help your CR and 195 probably would work but i would get atleast a 200 if not a 210

you are building a screamer here be prepared to spin this pretty high for your peaks

and last but not least.... headers you want long tube. period! shorties will work but nothing like a longtube will 1 5/8 or 1 3/4 to 3in minimum exhaust all the way back not through some 2 1/4 before the muffler dont want to spend all that money to have it choked to death

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Well the second recommendation from COMP was:

The pistons are .002 in the hole and I intend to use a .038 gasket.

As for 10.5-11:1 compression, you understand this is going to be daily driven, right? I can't always rely on getting the best quality and every station having 93 octane, thats why I've knocked it down to 10:1. Initially, I to was thinking higher compression but, I decided to "play it safe."

I know I should really use some L/Ts but this is an S-10 with a T56, only 2 guys I know of have L/Ts with theirs and they were both custom fabed and still have some issues. I could bump up to 1 5/8 or 1 3/4 primaries possibly, just have to ask around some more an get opinions on fitment.

SpitotRs305

first the 8-468-8 is a very different cam... different very different... and it is a pretty healthy cam... i think anything below 10.5CR would be a waste even for the 467 cam comp specd. i personally have never seen a gas station that doesnt have 93...

but yes deffinitly bigger primarys at least

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Guess I just live in the boonies.

I'm pretty set on 10:1 though, partially because I may add a little nitrous as well, but I want good low RPM driveablity first and foremost.

SpitotRs305

low RPM driveablity is mostly cam... any of those cams are going to be pretty tough below 2K... like you wont be in 6th with this thing bellow 4K

you might not want to pay for 93 but they have it if they have 87/89 then they have got to have 93

jonmark1985

no they don't
all the "Casey's" stations around here don't sell 93
93 oil is also imported, 87 or 89 are generally domestic oil

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, and if they do its an ethanol blend. Even some of the cheap Citgo stations near my house don't have anything but 89. Reason being, gas is to expensive and there is no demand for 91/93, so there is no reason for them to carry it and there is no law saying they have to. But thats not the topic of this thead. I can get 91 or 93 if and when I need to, but I'm staying with 10:1.

At the moment I'm leaning towards the Crane, still waiting on some recomendations from other manufactuers.

Apeiron

"Imported" and "Domestic" oil?

jonmark1985

87/89/91 are all possible to make with oil from alaska, canada, and mexico
93 has to be made with oil from oversea, like iraq or iran

SpitotRs305

NO there are only 2 octanes produced... 87,93 all of those others.... are ratios of 87 and 93... you dont really think the that they would be stupid enough to make 10 different types of gas when the octane ratings they sell can be made with a ratio of 87/93...

and all gas in the US now has ethenol in it...

Air_Adam

I'd recommend the Comp XE284, or something else in the 236-240* range on the intake side, and 240-248* on the exhaust side. Your engine specs are not a whole lot different than mine, just more CI (I have a 350) and I use the XE274. One "size" bigger than the XE274 should work pretty nice I think.

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Thanks, I'll look into it.

EDIT: The only XE284 grind I found was a flat tappet cam. Thanks though.

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Should I upgrade to 7/16" Rocker studs? Would there be any harm in it? I assume I would not make much use of a stud girdle yet, right?

Anyone use the AFR Roller Rockers? They look similar to some Harland Sharp rockers, but I'm not sure. Any suggestion on Full Rollers?

Should I upgrade the springs anyways? Both the COMP cams would be over .500 lift with 1.6 rockers so the would for sure need it, but Crane would have .574 Intake and .595 Exhaust lift. Is that to close?

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Well, I am indeed going with bigger headers, still shorties but 1 5/8" primaries and 3" collectors, possibly 1 3/4" primaries.

I'm pretty sure I want to upgrade to the 7/16" rocker studs, debating on a stud girdle. I have seen BTE Stud Girdles recomended, anyone have any experience with them?

Also courious if I should use a rev kit. Seem most are happy with the Competition Products Rev Kits, any thought?

SpitotRs305

how high do you plan on spinning it once it is together? properly matched springs and roller lifters should be good to near 6500RPMS

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Well I figure atleast up till 6,500 if thats where the cam is still making power.

SpitotRs305

i would skip the rev kit... unless you are planning on being in the 7500rpm range often... you will have to talk to comp about springs... although your heads will stop you from spinning higher than 6000RPMs well not stop you but negate the usefulness

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

I'm thinking more about the C/R, since I already had a thread on that, I went ahead and brought it back up.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...mpression.html

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

So here is where I'm at so far. Changes since the original post are in bold.

1992 Chevrolet S-10
Weight: 3300
Axle Ratio: 4.10s or 3.73s
Transmission: ’95 F-body T-56
Tire Height: 26

SHORT BLOCK
Engine Block Type: Chevrolet (“ZZ4” casting)
Engine Size:385
Bore:4.04
Stroke:3.75 (Scat 9000 series, 1-piece RMS)
Compression Ratio:10.5:1
Piston Type: Flat top 4cc (Probe SRS P/N: 12337-040)
Connecting Rod:6" I-Beams (Scat 4340 Forged)

INTAKE
Manifold: Single-Plane MPFI (Accel Pro-Ram P/N: 74139 )
Throttle Body Size: 1,200cfm
Injector size: 36lbs./hr. Ford Motorsports “Cobalt Tops”

HEADS
AFR Eliminators
Head Part Number: 1036 (75cc Chamber flat milled to 70cc)
Head Runner Volume: 195cc
Intake Valve Size: 2.05
Exhaust Valve Size: 1.60
Rocker Arm Type: Full Roller
Rocker Arm Ratio: Unsure at the moment.
Valve Springs: 135lbs @ 1.800 / 340lbs @ 1.270, .600” lift (Basic AFR Package)

EXHAUST
Exhaust Headers: Sanderson Shorties
Exhaust Pipe Size: 1.75" Primaries, 3" Collectors

MISC:
Ignition System: MSD 6AL, MSD Pro-Billet Distributor, MSD Blaster Coil
Oiling System: Milodon S-10 V8 Swap Pan, Pump, Pickup, and Windage Tray
Fuel System: Walbro 225l/hr In-tank pump, Aeromotive Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator

EFI TUNING
1227730 ECM, custom harness from eficonnection.com, Moate’s Ostrich/Xtreme ALDL/G1 adapter, Innovative LC1 Wideband O2 sensor, TunerPro RT software

Pretty much decided on this cam:
Crane Hydraulic Roller PN: 109661
Advertised Duration: 292° intake / 300° exhaust
Duration @ .050: 230° intake / 238° exhaust
Lift with 1.5 ratio rocker: .539” intake / .558” exhaust
Lift with 1.6 ratio rocker: .575” intake / .595” exhaust
LSA: 112

So now my questions are:

Should I upgrade to 7/16" Rocker studs for extra insurance?What rocker ratio?

Having the heads flat milled, I will have to have my intake milled as well, right? Isn't the rule of thumb 1/2 of whats milled from the head will have to be milled from the intake? I'll mock it up first, before I go milling the intake, just curious.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

Get the 7-16 studs, it's always worth it. The part of the stud that screws into the head is the same (3/8), but the top of the stud where the rockers screws to is stronger and will deflect less at high rpm with the 7/16 studs.

I have heard bad things about AFR's springs, I think they are float-prone. I would run comp springs if you run a comp cam, mine are comp 977's at 1.90 installed ht 145lbs on the seat and 440 open.

If you are having AFR mill the heads, they should correct the intake face also. When I ordered mine with 64cc chambers, the intake bolted up fine. I would check and measure with a feeler guage by setting the intake on top of the heads with no gasket to see if there is excessive clearance. You can get the intake corrected if necessary then, but I wouldn't think you'd need it.

SpitotRs305

if you are having them flat milled there will not be any problem with the intake face... only if you are planning on angle milling or rolling the heads would you possibly have the need to correct the angle on the intake

Kurt04

iTrader: (2)

Yeah its only $20 to upgrade, I'm sure its worth it.

I wonder why they push their Hydra-Rev kit so bad. But Crane recommends a dual spring with atleast 125lbs seat pressure and 320lbs open pressure for the cam I'm looking at.

Yeah, I going with a flat mill. I know with the angle mill I would have to have the intake face on the heads milled to the proper angle. But I wasn't sure if with a flat mill I would have to have the bottom of my manifold milled so that it will sit down all the way. But I'll check it all out when I get ready to put it together.

What about the rocker ratio?