G0t M4xx 21

Yeah I'll flush it a couple times.

I live in Texas so it doesn't get very cold here, maybe in the 20's for a couple days.

I'm thinking 60/40 distilled water/coolant with some water wetter

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I did some research, and it seems distilled water is not recommended. I know distilled water is mildly corrosive, as pure water will eventually tear apart anything. Anti-freeze has rust and calcium inhibitors in it, so any of the minerals in tap water don't build up in your system. That's why I recommended Water/Rust Inhibitor/Water Wetter. But don't take my word for it. Search for yourself. You might find something different, and if you do, let me know! I'm about to do a big coolant flush, so I'd love to know what I should use.

Edit: I just did some more research, and found a lot of stuff that says use distilled. I guess it's up to you.

G0t M4xx 21

Well just to test the trans I put some JB weld on the thermostat cover and put it back on after it cured, topped off the radiator with water

It works! It's still a little low, need to put some more fluid in it, but it does shift through the gears now (still havent driven it, needs a new tire, cracked sidewall, I just pulled backward/forward about 5 feet)

I let the engine warm up fully, cooling system is working, AC works pretty good (a must have in Texas), but the SES light came back after a few minutes, the lappy says it's code 13, the O2 sensor. It just hovers around 0.45v +/- 0.05v

I'm prolly gonna get a heated sensor since I'll be upgrading to headers in the near future.

But I'm gettin excited now it's pretty much a tire, some gas, couple more quarts of ATF, and coolant holding me back from goin for a quick cruise around the block (emphasis on quick, still have no registration, insurance, inspection)

Not bad considering I've only put about $700 into the car, including the cost of the car itself

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

That's friggen sweet. You could make a mastercard commercial out of that car. :P

RFmaster

M4xx

On Code 13 - check wiring to and from O2 Sensor (Open circuit). ECM supplies 0.45 Vdc to the NBO. You may have damaged wiring or somehow disconnected NBO connector while working on your tranny!

Good job, I guess us engineers can still do a thing or two! Take care of all legal BS (Get a temp registration, basic liability insurance now, take battery out overnight to prevent theft.) - it may get very expensive if you get nailed by a COP after doing all the hard work!

//RF

G0t M4xx 21

Yeah I'll check continuity on the wiring, it's more likely the sensor is bad though, looks like the car was running pretty rich for a while (CTS, the wrong TPS on the car). It doesn't stay exactly at 0.45v, it moved around a little bit, the sensor is just probably clogged from running rich and/or the outside part is clogged from all the leaking tranny oil.

I just never got the code 13 before since I never let the engine warm up that much before, with the bad CTS and coolant leak

Every time I fix something I find something else wrong... grr

oh well, it's still progress

G0t M4xx 21

Well I went and got a new tire today, I couldn't help but take a trip down to the corner store

First thing I noticed is the front wheels scrape a bit on the inside of the wheel wells, probably due to the wider rubber on the car (245's in the front and 255's rear). When I took off the front wheel to take it to the tire place I did notice a spacer ring on the front wheels to increase the offset, still not good enough I guess.

Transmission is slipping some, think it still needs more fluid (the thing was COMPLETELY empty when I dropped the pan), but it does shift through the gears. How much ATF would a completely drained 700r4 need? I've put in 6 quarts so far.

And the engine still feels like it's not making nearly the power that it could, still VERY rich, new O2 sensor should fix that. But it idles well, doesn't stall in gear, even with the AC full blast

Then I just gotta fix the brakes, they're pretty mushy, gotta really mash on em to get it to stop

But at least it drives, gotta make it drive WELL now. Right now it just feels like a crappy old car, complete with running rich, smoke, and funny noises

RFmaster

Approximate 4L60 fluid capacity is 4.7L or 10 pints (Drain and refill) depending on the pan. Check fluid level with vehicle at normal operating temperature(82 to 93C), all accessories off, in park, on leveled ground, engine idling. DEXTRON II is a fluid of choice...

//RF

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I could have sworn the fluid capacity was somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 quarts, which would be 24 pints. Maybe you meant 10 quarts.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Every time I've done just a pan drop/filter change, it usually takes about 6-7 quarts to top it back off. A bone dry 700r4 takes about 10-12 quarts though. Can't help you on the pints thing. Don't pay much attention to that since ATF comes in quarts when you buy it.

G0t M4xx 21

Ok I got more fluid in the tranny, that's fine now, but the car still seems to have a lot of issues:

1. I replaced the O2 sensor, it goes into closed loop now, and the BLM's are right around 120-130, but the engine is STILL running extremely rich. O2 sensor is pegged at .7-.99v, never dropping below that. Code 13 came back because the O2 voltages were so high.

2. Spark knock counts are high. The timing is pretty retarded. I think I just need to clean/replace the spark plugs, inspect the dizzy too.

2. Oil pressure is very low, dropping to almost zero at idle, even though I just changed the oil and replaced the filter. I'm not going to drive the car much more until I fix this to avoid damaging the engine.

So what now?

RFmaster

Busy weekend

1) Replacement of O2 should have help, but I'm wondering why you are so rich. I hate to say but you are wrong about Code 13. Are you sure that you have code 13?????
Code 13 background, it will be set if:
2 minutes after engine start
CTS above 70C
NBO stays between 0.35 and 0.55 volts.
TPS signal is above 5% (just above idle).
All of the above conditions must be met for about 60 seconds before Code 13 will be set. Once Code 13 is set system will not go into CL.

BLM around 120 to 130 range is pretty darn good. I took my rig for VE learn this morning and I had BLM's in 108 range!

Even so, when engine goes into a close loop it should start leaning out by taking out fuel (reducing PW).
Get WinALDL log going - just let it idle (see below), record all parameters. Make sure that it goes into CL. You may have too high of a fuel pressure!

2) You got it - do the simple stuff.

3) Oil pressure - I do not trust dash gauges or OEM electrical sensors (you had a fire). In your case it is a royal PIA to get a T back there. The only way to verify oil pressure is to get a mechanical gauge. I have seen on B-Bodies oil pressure switch mounted just above oil filter - there is a oil galley which is on most SBC's is blocked off with a threaded plug (square plug). IT IS A ROYAL PIA TO GET THAT PLUG OUT! DO NOT ATEMPT. (I gave up, and block is on engine stand!)
Another way to bump oil pressure is to run 20W-50.

//RF

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Yea, you definitely want to verify that with a mechanical gauge, but if it still comes up low, you might wanna start looking for a replacement engine.

G0t M4xx 21

Well here's the whole story:

I just took a small trip to the grocery store and autozone (they're right next to each other), oil pressure had been good on the way up there, then it started falling on the way back. At first I freaked out when I saw it at near zero, but as soon as I started moving again it would come up a bit, but would go back to zero when I came to a stop. Engine was running a bit warm too, but I already know the cooling system still needs some work, and it was like 100 degrees outside today, but it wasn't anything too bad.

It very well could be the oil pressure gauge, the tach doesn't work right either, I only get correct engine rpm's with winALDL. I need to verify if there actually is an oil pressure problem before going farther.

Also on the way back is when code 13 came back, the SES light came on for a couple seconds then went off, I went to the error codes log in winALDL and it showed 13 (oxygen sensor). This happened shortly after some VERY high O2 sensor readings, over 1 volt (1.03v was the highest I saw)

By this point I just didn't want to get myself stranded, and limped back home.

So I still don't understand why it would be running so rich, when the computer KNOWS it's running really rich, so much that it stops believing the O2 sensor, even though it's brand new.

I'll reset the ECM later then post some logs.

RFmaster

M4xx

Monday mornings can be fun ??? Once ECM sets a hard code it goes into limp mode and ignores sensor inputs.

C3 ECM uses a balanced op amp buffer in its input O2 circuit. One of the inputs is tied to ground at the sensor ground. If that line is loose or floating relative to ECM ground it maybe possible to get false high readings. Also, I would check O2 harness from NBO all the way to ECM for splices, cuts, ets. You may have the PO handy work in action!

Question: - do you have A.I.R. system on your car - you air pump, hoses, etc???

//RF

G0t M4xx 21

All right I just finished replacing the spark plugs and wires on the driver's side (cuz it'll affect the O2 values, I'll do the pass. side when I have time), it's a lot better now.

I did notice a lot of oil on the outside of the driver's side head, near the rear. I remember reading somewhere that there's an oil drain hole near there in the head that often gets clogged, I suspect that's what's happened, and it's leaking out of the valve cover gasket.

First started it and the O2 voltage skyrocketed again as it warmed up, but finally the ECM got in the game and I started getting some crossovers, it would plunge to 0.18-0.2v then back up to 0.7-0.8v every 2 seconds or so. If I changed the engine RPM it would go way rich again then after 20-30 seconds would start getting crossovers. BLM's are kinda low, (108-115 range, some in the 120's)

Spark knock counts are much lower now, and the amount of smoke coming out of the exhaust is significantly lower, almost none.

Also for some strange reason my oil pressure gauge started working again, seems to me like it's an intermittent gauge rather than an actual oil pressure problem.

Now I just gotta do the plugs and wires on the passenger side, and take off the dizzy cap just for good measure, and fix up the cooling system. I think the fan stopped working.

RFmaster

M4xx

Good progress - R&R spark plugs, wires, etc will do wonders sometimes, especially on engine that did not have much love before now. Enough of BS - getting ignition system into ship shape will do wonders!. Assume the worst as far as maintenance items are concerned! I would pop dizzy hat and replace both rotor and hat as a matter of course.

With WinALDL - remember that ECM to PC is only running at 160 baud - which is a very slow update rate. Look for cross counts over a period of time at steady RPM. NBO sensor output ranges from 0.2 Volts (lean) to 0.8 Volts (rich). Once at operating temperature the NBO output voltage doesn't remain constant. It flip-flops back and forth from rich to lean. Every time the voltage reverses itself and goes from high to low or vice versa, it's called a "cross count." A good O2 sensor should transition from rich to lean about once per second. If the number of cross counts is lower than this, it tells you the O2 sensor is getting sluggish and needs to be replaced.
Most NBO will cycle from rich to lean in about 50 to 100 milliseconds, and from lean to rich in 75 to 150 milliseconds. This is referred to as the "transition" time. If you see less than 0.2 and more than 0.7 volts and the value changes rapidly, your sensor is good. Closed loop operation is indicated by the sensor showing several cross counts per second as ECM is constantly adjusting injector PW causing minor mixture fluctuations.

Pop a valve cover and check the drain hole. Most likely its just the valve cover gasket is history. You may have to crawl over engine and take a look at oil pressure tap, to the right of dizzy - it also may be leaking (this may explain weird oil pressure readings).

//RF

G0t M4xx 21

Still working away

replaced the valve cover gaskets yesterday and removed all the carbon from in there, it actually wasn't too bad. Passenger side cover was a bitch though (with the A.I.R. line in the way). Should fix my oil leaks

Also replaced the thermostat cover and 'stat, replaced the stock 195* with a 180* and drilled a few small holes around the outside

All seems to be good now, except my cooling fan died

I haven't checked it out yet, probably something simple like a fuse or the relay

G0t M4xx 21

Haven't posted in a while

Fixed the fan problem, someone had replaced the positive cable from the battery to the relay at some point, the butt connector went high resistance and melted some, I soldered the wires together and it works fine now.

Still concerned about oil pressure, it's fine when cold but then drops as the engine warms up, I'm currently running 10w-30, when hot the oil pressure drops to just above the red at idle, but goes back up when driving. The engine has 99,000 miles on it, but it has been sitting a long time, is it possible the bearings are gone already?

Also the car STILL runs incredibly rich!! Upon starting at cold the O2 sensor slowly climbs to .95-1V, and stays there until the ecm goes into closed loop, and even still the O2 values are very high, if I'm cruising at a steady speed it will eventually get some crosscounts, but i the engine is under any load at all it stays at .95-1v, and runs somewhat poorly (low power, transmission downshifts too soon)