Apeiron

Punch a hole in it with a cold chisel and then cut it open with aviation shears.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Just a tip, when taking a picture like that make sure to use the macro setting on the camera (picture of a flower), and more importantly, try to put a quarter or something next to it. I have no idea the scale of that particle now.
Hmm, magnetic piece eh? Uh oh.... (well, even if it wasn't magnetic it's still "uh oh")

Supervisor42

Wow, what a thread!
I'll quietly toss out a few ideas.
Remember this is a retro-roller cam. (thrust button/fore-aft movement problem?) Screeching sound.
Don't forget when he removed the rockers from #7 that he also killed the power to that cylinder. I think it's a bottom-end/piston problem for 3 reasons: The noise is too fast, he's inspected the lifter thru rocker parts and the deep sound it made when he revved it at the very end of the video.
Also he changed the oil pump to high volume because of low oil pressure when hot.
And for the guys wondering if I've ever built an engine:
I rebuilt my first V8 engine in 1973 at the age of 17. It ran for 10 years before being sold and was still running fine...

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

get a load of this thread!....and listen to his engine...its got that sqeeking sound too!..

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...+bearing+sound

I guess the motor is gone..like I thought, huh?



DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cooter26

iTrader: (1)

This is a great thread, supervisor i dont understand what you mean by killing the power? the piston is still moving weather the valve train is working or not. I agree with the post saying the squeek is an acessory on the front of the motor. Did you get the lifters back in yet? I dont understand how you didnt catch the bad lifter while you set the lash that 1/2 turn would have been hard to get on a dead lifter. I am in no way a real mechanic and only pretend to be one on this site LOL.
Send us another video!

alpine247

yep that sound's like a rod bearing slapping the hell out of the crank.a lifer want sound that loud plus u have a squeal, a lifer don't squeal not that i know off.the squealing probably is coming from the from the spun bearing digging in the crank...

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

well that vid convinced me!>..Im not going to waist money on new intake gaskets, RTV, OIL, the time to put it all back together just to find out that Like Supervisor42 says the sound has not moved to deeper inside the motor..Cause now when I got back and listen to my VID he is right, you can hear it a little deeper in...or maybe its just in my head now...LOL
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whos? mine or the other people vids I posted?

alpine247

urs sorry..mine sounded the say way a week ago,find out the #8 cylinder rod bearing had spun.now im rebuilding the engine, it's fun until u have to buy a new crank and connecting rod..

Supervisor42

With the valves closed there is no compression stroke and no power stroke. This is what puts a "load" on the piston/rod/bearing.
To Wishmaster: That was only (my) one person's OHpinion.
If the lifter "rollers" were fine, the cam lobe is fine. Anything making that much noise in the #7 valve train would be visual by now.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

yeah I know what you mean!!!....funny til you either spend more money or say the hell with it and give up!..

SO you dead positive that its a spun bearing?

has anyone listen to the other vids I posted...up there

the one with the sqreeching noise like mine is what I wish I didnt find but oh well now!

Guest

Sorry, missed the "magnetic" part.

Guest

Both those posted have rod knock. The 2nd has a noise in the valvetrain too. Yours isnt a rod, its too high pitched.

I've heard both flexplates and dampers make squealing noises, along with a whole bunch of other things like alternator bearings, PS pumps, timing chains rubbing on covers... hard to say what it is honestly. Fix the obvious, go from there.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

yeah the peices I found...after thinking I tought maybe too it was peices of the oil pressure fitting...

yeah but the second vid I posted also has that sqealing noise that is just too odd that he had it too.

start with the obvious? hell at this point I dont even know what that is now????...

Supervisor42

No. Before you pull the engine, drop the pan and take off the #7 rod cap. If it isn't, I've been wrong before (and this would be a good time).
Yep, screeching noise sounds just like a bad AIR pump bearing, but too much of a coincedence with the "tapping".
Alpine: the squeal comes from there being no oil between the outside of the bearing shell and connecting rod bore as the shell rotates against it.
Edit: anyone notice the squealing went away when the rockers were off #7?

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

shoot!..its easier for me to pull the motor than to try and fight with the oil pan and having to do all that under the car.

if I put the lifters back in and fire it up Im thinking that some of the sound will still be there and I will do more harm than good. I keep trying to find a reason to not pull the motor cause of what I PITA it is..

alpine247

well Wishmaster's87IROC what i would do is pull the pan and see how much damage it did cuz im 99.9% positive it a rod bearing.

alpine247

ohh ok,and yeah i noticed that also.so pretty much sums it up that #7 rod bearing is gone or something,cuz when he pulled the rocker off the noise was quieter and the squealing quit being less pressure on the cylinder..

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

hmm?...yeah thats true. Well I guess I did it in...should I ge the oil pump replaced? its under warranty too. My rods are forged so would those be ok? its just the bearing right? will I have to take the whole motor apart? like pistons, crank and all that?

my new question is...WHY? why did this happen?

alpine247

nah u have to take the crank out and have turned and the connecting rod if it turnable mine wasn't had to buy a redone crank kit and a connecting rod.

so pretty much u have to take the engine out,put it on a engine stand and take it down to the block..
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and why this happen so soon idk maybe the bearings was installed wrong.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

worst case senerio...what are we talking to fix and cost?

cheapest case senerio what cost?

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

if it is a bearing, the motor needs to come out & be torn completely down, other wise you'll never get all the metal particles out & you'll soon have more problems.
you said you can get the oil pump replaced under warranty, so a gasket set, a rod, & a crank kit at minimum.

when a rod bearing goes away, sometimes the piston can hit the head. if it stacked the bearing & which way it got stacked has a lot to do with it. if its stacked toward the rod, it almost certainly has gotten to know the head a little too well.

having been run with low oil pressure, i would have a set of cam bearings put in too. if the cam bearings are loose, you'll still have low oil pressure if you don't replace them.

alpine247

if u going with a stock crank autozone have crank kits for 150-300 depends what u want.connecting rod idk i got mine for 30bucks new..gasket set just buy everything by piece.when i got mine all the gasket where 127 after taxes from advance.

so u looking at about 450 bucks..

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

man o man!.....I dont believe this crap!......im am over here laughing my *** off....Ive had nothing but the worst of luck with this motor!

THere is no WAY!...im going to do the bottom end myself...Ive learned alot from you guys about the topend and other things but Im if I attempt to tackle the bottom end I will just screw that up..with clearances and stuff like that...I would love to do it myself in the garage but I just dont think Im up to that...just to much to know to do it right....

or is it easier than Im thinking?


can I reuse like the rod bolts and crank bolts and stuff? head bolts hell all the bolts for that matter...most if not all are ARP's

alpine247

not hard as u think it is but if u don't trust urself doing it (don't)..

and yeah u can reuse all the bolts..just clean all the treads

Apeiron

All it takes is patience and attention to detail.


Yes, as long as they're not damaged.

Viprklr

iTrader: (5)

It's really easy to do.

Those who think they can't, won't.
Those who think they can, do.

In either case, they're both right.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Buy an engine rebuild book. Books-a-million and barnes and noble sale this one engine rebuild book that comes with a 2 hour dvd that shows you how to do it.

When I rebuilt my first engine, I used a haynes repair manual. We all know how vague that is. It worked out, until I raced it to death.

You can pull an engine out in two hours. Pull it out, and just remove the oil pan and crank. You can do all of this in a day. If there is nothing wrong, just put it all back together and torque it.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

I started reading this thread for the first time a half hour ago. I watched the video at the beginning and my first though was a spun rod bearing. it sounded exactly like my brother's motor when his motor spun a rod bearing. The two halves of the bearing piggy-backed (aka: stacked) and the piston was slapping the head causing the sound. It wiped out the crank and the rod, but the head was fine. His oil pan had chunks similar to yours as well.

I doesn't make any sense that the noise stopped when you took the rockers off if its a rod bearring though. I realize the valves weren't opening, but the inertial force alone is enough to keep making a sound. unless the pressure inside the combustion chamber keeps the piston from hitting the head in that situation.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

yeah it better be a rod bearing or some sort of bearing if I go thru all the trouble to pull the motor out...I would hate to pull it and see nothing out of the ordinary once I take the pan off....then that would be a whole new ballgame to figure out what the hell is going on

alpine247

before i would go take the engine out i would pull the pan of and see first.then if it is u just about have the engine out anywhy..

hgffrank

sorry everyone but I am hijacking the thread for a moment to rant..

Nelapse,
As far as the info I posted only applying to flat tappet cams you are wrong, only the initial 20 minute breakin was optional to flat tappets, all the rest of the steps applied to ALL engines.
its funny to me how you were so quick to accuse me and half the people on this thread on not knowing what the hell we are talking about by claiming its obvious we have never rebuilt an engine, and around the same time you claim the info I posted was wrong.
I find it funny because you dont agree with the information, which was directly from an ASE NATEF certified repair manual, and yet now you dare to recommend another book to someone to help them out yet you try and discredit another, and what makes it even funnier is that you try and discredit a professional training manual and then favor an aftermarket manual which is nothing more than one person's opinion on how to do something. Seems as though you think nobody else knows anything but you.

Entertaining considering you yourself are NOT a trained automotive technician, and dont try the "I'm a helicoptor pilot crap" cause that in no way qualifies you to come here and tell everyone else they are wrong and dont know what they are talking about. And for your information, yes I have rebuilt an engine, that doesnt mean I am in any way a pro at it or that I'm even completely comfortable with it yet, but I certainly understand the principles, and considering I HAVE been professionally trained, I think you are out of place to make any accusations against me.

Before you start saying I must have been a bad student or didnt pay attention you keep in mind that I got a 4.0 in every auto class I have taken, and overall gpa is 3.911, and as far as any post's I made anywhere it makes no difference because I just finished my training last month, and after a coule general education class's I will have my degree, which means that any posts I made previous to a few months ago was before or during my training, and therefore means nothing.

So before you come on an open board and start assuming anything and making yourself look foolish perhaps you should know what your talking about and more importanly who your talking to, because I dont know how anyone else here feels but I personally dont appreciate people who constantly look for everyone elses shortcomings, especially when they themselves are not trained or anything more than a backyard mechanic, not saying being a backyard is a bad thing, it just doesnt offer any qualifications. Just because you've done something and it worked out in no way makes how you did it right, or qualifies you to be the "teacher" while discrediting everyone else, who are possibly, and even likely more qualified than you. Its one thing to offer an opinion on an issue, quite another to attack everyone else's opinions. I am sure most others here will agree with me...

...oh, and I have no beef with you either, just not going to be openly disrespected and let it slide, and like I said, if you dont agree with the information I posted then dont take it up with me, take it up with the professionals that wrote it which I openly offerred the resource, and tell them they are wrong. I think they would laugh at you considering they are more qualified than either of us. If you think you know more than them then perhaps you should write your own repair manual and make sure to point out all the innacuracies in all the others. And dont try and make an argument out of this because nobody here should have to defend themselves and I will only do it once and I will not discuss this any furthur. I have spoke my thoughts and have nothing furthur to say on the subject.

Again, I'm very sorry everyone, my rant is over, you can have your thread back..

Guest

All the factory manuals, professional manuals, guidelines, and old wives tales wont prevent an engine from blowing up if it wants to. All it takes is one bad part. Babying the engine for 500 miles wont help, it will just delay the inevitable. So while there is plenty of printed information saying you have to break in an engine, there is plenty of evidence (and people doing otherwise) to the contrary. So honestly IMO, neither argument is right. Do what you want, but calling someone wrong doesnt hold much water.

cooter26

iTrader: (1)

Holy, just stop while your ahead pretend mechanic guy, if you are have a little dignity. Whismaster on your original video the engine did not squeek untill it started bogging down, and the other motor video you posted sounded way worse than yours, i know on my motor i would almost have to pull it to get the oil pan off and check the bearings. IMHO you should drop in the new lifters, realy check those pushrods on a piece of glass and start it back up. About the #7, i would not think the crank was turning it any slower to make the noise stop. BTW do you have the new lifters yet?

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

yeah I got the new retro lifters today and yes to drop the oil pan I would more or less have to pull the motor in order to get it away from the oil pump and to get it back on because of the thick rubber pan gasket....its just so much easier to button it down when its out of the car. I can only imagine what it would be like to do that under the car. I mean you can only get the motor up so far unless you disconnect the trans from the motor.

should I or shouldnt I remove the motor? Im planning on doing it this weekend when it cools done outside and yes I can have the trans dropped and motor out in a day. Its not that simple though with the y-pipe, torque arm, DS, lines, cables, all that stuff...and thats just for the trans.

Why would you say to not pul the motor? ...so your thinking that it is all just my valve train? in that one vid I posted of the other persons motors..that one had the same squeeking that mine does and on both the other peoples posts they also said that they replaced lifters and adjusted rockers to still have there sound of a spun bearing. I dont know what the sound of spun bearing sounds like. When I removed the rockers off #7 the ticking or whatever sound was gone..why? I dont know!? thats why im asking you guys, your more machanically minded than me Im hoping.

I would just hate to put the intake back on fill it with oil and antifreeze/water and the sound not be there but then come back after a few miles or when it gets hot.

Here is a vid I took when the motor sat all night and when I first cranked it up and right before I removed I removed the cover and the rockers and took all those other vids.

If you listen the sqeek is not there but is that because the motor/oil is cold? you can also see my oil pressure but when it gets hot it will go down in the red and with a 10% more volume/pressure pump I thoght I was to have more pressure than that.

I'll wait for a reply and give more details if needed.

heres the new lifters and the vid..now with the new lifters I can shake them and hear the springs or whatever is inside them...mine I guess are pumped up with oil and dont make any noise.

SpitotRs305

do you have any pics of the rockers on #7 like hi res pics maybe of the rollers? and the top of the valve stems?

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

ask and you shall recieve....but I already put all the rockers in a bag..thinking Im going to have to tear the whole motor down...but I can tell you they look normal just like the others..rollers were fine and the other part was fine too...I think its called the truniun? ..IDK..
roller makes on the valve stems look to be in the right place...right?




what does anyone make of the last vid I posted...with the squeeking not there?

Apeiron

The location of the witness mark isn't as important as the width.

SpitotRs305

those are some good pics... looks like there was a lot of metal on those retainers.... you havent happened to look at the inside of those valve covers have you?

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

The covers are clean as a whistle...and with the 5meg camera I got it just magnifies any and everything on whatever....I just went and looked at the retainers and thats just some dust or something...cause alls I got is a plastic bag covering the motor and the hood ofcourse.

heres the #7 lifter.

Apeiron

That's not so good. Looks like a piece of trash got caught between the lifter and the cam lobe. I think that thing needs to come apart.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

im taking the rest of the lifters out tomorrow. Lets see if those look the same of different. I went and checked out the #7 lifter rollers thats pictured and they are not grooved or anything...nice and smooth.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

The wear on your rollers is not uniform. which means your cam lobes are jacked most likely.

Unfortunately, it is time to pull the motor out.

You need to remove the cam and inspect it.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

isnt there suppose to be some wear marks? I puled the rest of the lifters out today and they all looked the same. They all didnt have the same wear marks but they all had marks just like above.

Im thinking they are not suppose to look brand new like nothing has ever rolled across them.

LOL.....damn Im just looking for a reason not to pull the motor!

Apeiron

Marking of the surface is normal. It's not really wear, just the collapsing of the grain structure of the metal undre pressure, without a change in dimension. Those lifters look grooved in the picture, but if they're not, then I don't know what's going on.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Of course it is suppose to have some wear. That does not look like your typical wear. take your finger nail and run it across the wear perpendicularly if your finger nail catches anything regardless how faint something is seriously wrong.

The roller should be smooth as glass. If there is slight lines or grooves, you either have a faulty lifter or your cam is jacked.

Either way bro, you need to remove the camshaft and look at this. You could be wiping a lobe.

SpitotRs305

but the wear pattern should be centered on the roller one is one isnt how can that happen?

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

there is ZERO, NONE ..no grooves whatsoever, they are SMOOTH... I did that lastnight and just now before I send the old lifters back to Comp.

I think Im gonna chance it!.......all it will be is the time to put the intake back on and them lifters and the ****ing REV-KIT..that is a PITA to remove enad put on....now remember those push the lifters down with the springs..could that be why there is more wear than usual?..and some oil...

have you listened to the vid up there that I posted? the squeeking sound is not there...why?

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Alright bro.

Put it back together and try it. What can it hurt? If your lower end is jacked it is jacked.

Just do not forget to prime the lifters.

If it starts making the same noise, shut it off. If it sounds different, then we will go from there.

The best thing to do to make sure you have all the valvetrain in tune as far as valve lash is to adjust the rockers while the car is on.

If you do not want to go that route, what did the crane tech tell you 1/2 turn past zero lash?

As for the squeeling, if you did not prime the lifters right the rocker is rubbing metal on metal. Put some moly grease on the rocker to get it going. The video convinces me it is valvetrain.

Good luck dude.

P.s. this may sound silly but I wonder if the rev kit is actually the problem. What if it is causing the knock with the springs and such?

Apeiron

There's no intermittent contact of parts in a rev kit that could cause a knock.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

COmpCams directions say ..to dont prelube the lifters...or I mean to pump them full of oil.

and yeah, they say to go 1/2 turn past zero lash. It says to get ZERO is to place the rocker on and tighten it down while moving the the push rod up and down vertical and when it stops going up and down that is ZERO and then go 1/2 turn past that.


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