Tonysz383

I have a 1988 IROC and I would like to build a TPI turbo base on a one piece seal and roller cam block. Parts that I already have; Hamberger oil pan, one piece seal forge crank, custom ground Crane supercharged cam, Trick flow heads, roller rockers, Fluid damper, Edelbrock base plate, SLP runners, Accel 58mm TB, 50 LBS injectors, Blitz boost controller, HKS 4" intercooler, 2 40mm HKS waste gates, Type S Greddy BOV. All I need is a good block. Any ideas?

jonmark1985

i sure wouldn't push it, especially for the $10,000+ you gonna have to put in this setup, i don't think it would hurt to spend the extra money on a dart block maybe even build a 4.125 bore motor and use the extra cubes to your advantage

you also gotta ask yourself if your really gonna go that big, maybe the question should be can you make 1,000 horsepower?

PS, im not trying to be mean or rude, i hope you understand what im trying to say

SpitotRs305

you can make 1000 HP on a GM350 it has been done... how long it will last is another story... 10K is a little high the engine can be built for under 2500 if you dont have to buy the block...

the beauty of the turbo is you dont have to be in boost all the time
the drawback to the GM block is it will crack eventually how long that takes is up to you and how you drive it.. i would think the car would be the limiting factor with an engine like that as no street tire would ever have traction probably couldnt find a slick that wont have traction problems

but then you need a turbo capable of moving that much air you didnt mention what turbo you have...

you should take a look at www.turbomustangs.com
they have a GM section lots of info and pics (added bonus) pics of gimpped mustangs... thier blocks crack too

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

With a turbo build, you aren't stressing the rotating components as much as if it were a high revver. You want upper end stability, your main thing will be losing head gaskets. That's ok though, a head gasket is a $40 replacement, think of it as the "fuse" for your engine. It's better than splitting the top end of the block eh?

So you could leave it be at that, or get an ARP stud kit, make sure you run heads with a THICK base, like AFR's that advertise 3/4" thick decks. Cut the block (or heads) for O-rings, and use an o-ring style gasket.

A short fill holds the bottom end together nicely, but a full fill would probably benefit your case - however you gotta wonder how you'll keep the engine cool after that. I'm not entirely sure you need that anyway.

Vizard built up a 1000HP street turbo SBC. I intend to find the specs on that engine and duplicate it one day, the heads and valve train book just gives a snapshot and a teaser, saying that the cam was a good step in the right direction for that build, and to buy his book on forced induction for more details... :grumble grumble:

F-Body Demon

iTrader: (1)

My $.02 is that a set of $200 splayed mains may help. Get a 2 bolt and do the conversion . But I have seen a guy running 850 whp on a stock shortblock 2 bolt too so :shrug: its your engine. But end all yes the SBC is actually a stout little engine.

Batass

You may not be able to get enough cam in it with a hyd roller block. Hyd roller lifters dont like super high pressure. And your going to need quite a big cam I think.
Anyway back to your question. I wouldnt trust a stock block at 800hp driving it every weekend. I would dish out the extra 1500-2k for a nice block. And while your at it, check out a 450 ci small block stroker kit!

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I'd think he wouldn't be going for a lot of cam / duration to make the power. I think he'd rely on a good turbo and intercooler and just shove massive boost into it. Like I said, try to find the info on that vizard build up, max power at 5500RPM, 206/230 duration cam, completely streetable. Sounds too good to be true, that's why I want more info on it. Heck, even if I couldn't get all the way, 800HP would still blow my socks off.

1320_Guy

iTrader: (3)

1000hp with a street car is dangerous. They have a video on the nelson racing engines site that has a detuned TT pontiac (around 1000 hp). In the video they put it in 3rd gear at around 15 mph and stomped it. With full slicks on the street it redlined in less than a second and was sideways.

Batass

Not sure which is more dangerous, lol, to slide or to hook. The motor im dropping in my car will supposedly be 700hp, supercharged. Turbo would be even easier to hit those numbers. Then just throw a 2 or 300 shot of nos at it, it would be easier, not as much boost which can cause all sorts of problems.....
I have some of vizard's books but I bought a supercharger/turbo one from Earl Davis.

jonmark1985

man i love the numbers game

rjt76

david vizard also stresses the importance of the aftermarket blocks throughout his writings. How many build 1000 hp on the cheap and expect it to last? spend money right the first time.

Tonysz383

Thanks for the info. I have pair of new T-4 turbochargers. I know that I may have to buy bigger injectors like 72lbs or maybe 96lbs injectors because the 50lbs injectors that I have are only good up toabout 750 to 780 HP. I have an old Accel DFI to control everything.

Tonysz383

I already have a custom ground Crane cam for a turbo setup, with 232 Int/Exh at .050 and .575 Lift on both sides. My Trick flow heads have the big springs that cam. The power band is going to be from 2200 to 6200 RPMs. I'm going to use two T-4s and I also have an HKS intercooler with 4"X12"X24" core, it's big.

Tonysz383

I'm going to spend what ever it takes to buy good block. I just want a good block that use a one piece crank and a factory roller cam setup. The Motown and Dart blocks use the old two piece main seal crank and the old style cam. I already have Hamburger oil pan for a one piece seal block and the expencive cam is also for the 87-92 blocks.

Tonysz383

Ok, that will make the bottom strong, but SBC are weak around the lifter valley are. They are prone to cracks in there because the new blocks do not have enough nicker in them.

Tonysz383

I have a 1996 book with GM Bow tie block numbers and horse power rating, but the ones that can take high horse power use a two piece seal crank and do not have the provisions for factory roller cam. Do you know of a newer book with update information on GM blocks?

Batass

Half this thread was spent on the bad assumption that you were trying to use a stock block. lol. Well I dont know any more than you do, but I've been told the older blocks are in fact stronger. (pre 87)

Tonysz383

Ok, maybe I should have said, can a 87-92 style with a one piece seal and factory roller cam block take 1000 hp. I just want to know if GM made a block to replace the weak 87-92 blocks.

Ol'Blue

iTrader: (1)

Just to throw this out there....But supercharger cams and turbocharger cams are 2 different things.....call a cam manufacture and get a turbo cam with more on the exhaust side.....superchargers dont need any extra on the exhaust side...turbo's have that big restriction....you will never hit your 1000hp goals on an off the shelf cam....call comp cams, tell them your goal and request a custom cam.....more than likely you will have to go with a solid roller cam

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't recommend it. Get an aftermarket block with the more common 2 piece rear main seal and call it a day. I don't know if I'd use that fluidampr if I were planning on making that much power. A custom one from ati might be better. I also agree that you should check into a different camshaft than the one you have. The most important thing in turbo cams is extra exhaust duration and lobe seperation angle. Skimping anywhere on a motor that you intend to make 1000 hp from is asking for trouble. Use the best parts you can everywhere and invest in more expensive head gaskets and o-ringing. Turbo motors are real animals, but they can be built to last for a while. Sonix idea of emulating David Vizard's past achievements is an excellent idea. You don't have to do everything he did, but the information gleaned from someone who's already done what you intend to do is worth its weight in gold. Hope it works out for you. If it does, I'm sure a lot of people here would love to hear how she runs. In closing, make sure your chassis is set up to handle that kind of power. I knew a guy who was making a little over 800 hp and massive amounts of tq. He tuned the car on a chassis dyno and then took it to the track for his first 1/4 mile pass. When the car hooked it was hard enough to peel his brand new ford 9 inch rear end right off the frame, after which the car fell down on the pavement and crushed the rear 1/4 panels and mangling a good amount of the car in the process.

Tonysz383

Ok, thanks. I'll call Crane cam and Comp cams and see what they recoment. I also read an article on turbo engines and they said to use cams with equal or less duration on the exhaust, because on long duration turbo cams you can use some of the intake charge energy to help the exhaust gases out plus because the increase back pressure on the turbos holding the Exhust valve open for too long will cause some of the exhaust gases to go back in to the cylinder. My friend with a Gran National has a cam with 214 deg, intake and 210 deg. exhaust and car runs great. I also have a 2001 Integra turbo and the Comp Cams stage 3 turbo cams have more duration and lift on the intake side 238 int/ 234 exh and .490 int/.440 exh at .060.

Tonysz383

What should I do with the rear suspension? I know that a 12 bolt is in order and I already have subframe connectors, box control arms with urathene bushings and a tubular pan rod. What else can be done?

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

First off, I'd use a ford 9 inch rearend. The boxed arms are a good start, but you could buy a new rear suspension from Spohn or Global West, as well as strengthen the chassis wherever you can. A four link suspension would be the ultimate in strength, but spend some time looking over the different types of rear suspension ideas. They all have strengths and weaknesses. Anyone else who wants to chime in with alternative ideas for the rear suspension can chime in anytime.

Tobias05

1000HP...all you need is some subframe connectors! haha.

Vizard's books are the shiz. you'll be scratching your head for weeks.

Tonysz383

Thanks, I will check Spohn and Global West web site. What do you think about a new Dana 60 for F bodies, a 9 inch Ford is good but Ford part in my Chevy does not sound too good to me. I met too many Ford dudes that are asses and that turn me off on Ford parts even if I have to spend more on a Dodge rear end. Mopar people are better.

Tonysz383

jonmark1985

not all of us ford guys are bad, and you can get a bolt in 9" from currie for a decent price , but i got a big feeling this aint gonna be a bolt on and go car

oh yeah, and whats the ar on your t4`s? my old man had 2 .6 ers on his old 289", only had around 500 horse

my $.02, give lingenfelter a car and open up your pocket book, don't faint when he gives you an estimate, oh let us know what its gonna run

Tonysz383

Ok, not all you guys are not bad but about 90% are, you know that is the thruth. A good motor head likes all the cars that are nice nomatter who makes them. That's why I also have a Turbo Rice burner. My T4's are AR 60 and .96 on the exhaust. The compressor on them are almost as big as the SC61 in my 417 wheel HP on my Integra with 17 PSI of boost.

jonmark1985

idk know man, i still don't see it happening, this what i think you gotta do
or at least the route i would take

4.125" bore
4" stroke
6.5 to 1 compression
18-25 pounds of boost
18 degree heads
huge intercooler
200-300 shot on top of that

SpitotRs305

will gasoline even ignite with 6.5:1 compression?

jonmark1985

yeah, thats all a briggs motor has
and thats what the funny cars have
and you aint gonna run gasoline at the boost levels i was talking about regardless of how well your intercooler is

Tonysz383

It can be done, Hot Rod magazine did and article last year on a twin turbo 406 and it made almost 1100hp on pump gas and 1500hp on race gas.

Tonysz383

Yes, in the 1920's and 30's old flat head engines use to run with very low 6:1 compression. But, all I need is an engine with 8:1 compression and I should be able to run 17 PSI on pump gas using only 18 deg. of total timing and a 12:1 fuel ratio.

Tonysz383

I also have a 2001 Integra turbo and it laid down 417 Hp on the chassis dyno with only 17.5 pounds of boot and on pump gas. That is a 1.8 liter engine. Al it took was a good combination of turbo parts a some good tunning. The tunner told me that I can crank the boost to 20 PSI and stir run pump gas. My Integra has 8.9:1 Arias pistons. So a SBC with 8:1 pistons could run on that much boost on punp gas also.

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

I don't know much about the Dana rearends, but look at it this way. If it's good enough for all the Nascar boys then it should work for you. And if anyone asks, "I wasn't copying thos Ford guys...I was copying the Nascar guys." That should ease your conscience every time.

Tonysz383

Ok, I get the ticket!

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

Your motor looks Kick A** by the way.

Tonysz383

Thanks, it took me a wile to get it that way.