Camaro5690

iTrader: (1)

Well yesterday I stopped by a family friends house, and during our conversation he mentioned he had a 327 that someone was supposed to come pick up but never did. So now I am getting a free 327, he said that it is a 1970. I am just looking for some tips of checking the engine out, I know I am probably going to rebuild it. Would I have problems with modern gas? Also its the 300hp version of the 327, how much power should I be able to get out of it with a total budget of lets say 2-3 grand. Im really excited because this is my first engine Im going to build. I have the help of many experienced people (kinda need them when your only 17). So today afterschool I have to go unbolt it from the rolling chassis he has it on. Well Wish me luck.

Apeiron

If its in your budget, toss the 327 crank and pistons in the trash and make it a 350.

1986Z28OWNER

iTrader: (1)

well dont just toss the crank, from what i hear, most 327 cranks are forged and sometimes arnt that esay to come by

jonmark1985

personally stick with the 327, the shorter stroke makes them fun, and it will help keep overall cost down

or if you do toss them, let me know, ill give you some cash for them

Camaro5690

iTrader: (1)

im thinking Im just going to rebuild it and throw a few performance things in it, I dont need insane amounts of power.Im aiming in the 350-400 maybe more range. I want torque too obviously. And from what Ive heard the 327 is a tough *** engine

Apeiron

The short stroke doesn't make it "fun", it just makes it less powerful at the same RPM than a similar longer-stroked engine, so that it has to be built to turn faster to make the same power.

Likewise, a 327 isn't any "tougher" than any other comparably built engine of any displacement.

If you want to give it a quick rebuild to freshen it up, go ahead. If you want performance, and any of the rotating assembly parts need machining or replacement, then don't waste your time making a 327. Build it as a 350 or 383.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, you'll have a tough time hitting 400HP with a streetable 327. Especially on your low budget.
I'd highly recommend a basic cast 3.75" stroke (383 style) crank. Decent heads and a reasonable cam and you'll hit that 400HP, on budget too.

jonmark1985

people, get out of your 350/383 world, maybe he wants to build a 327, i sure rather would than a 350 if i had the chance

SpitotRs305

no he doesnt... he just doesnt know it yet... 350/383 is the way to go

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Care to share why you'd rather have a 327 over a 350?

jonmark1985

they old, survivors, legends, and everyone and there brother has a 350


plus in the ford world anyone would rather have a 347 4.125" bore motor than a 347 4" bore motor

Apeiron

That's all fine if you don't mind going slower for the sake of being "different" in a way that few people would understand, and even fewer would care about. What the heck, if you want different, go ahead and build a 265.

In the Chevy world anyone would rather have a 400 4.125" bore motor than a 350 4" bore motor.

Supervisor42

I had a hell of a good time with a 327 when I was 17. (back in '73)
One benefit of a 327: you couldn't overrev it and blow it up.
I'd put a J/Y recap on the right rear of the Impala and leave rubber for 100 yards with the powerglide pulled down in low. Never had a tach but I bet it was hitting 7K for a long time. (hey, I was a kid, ok)

SpitotRs305

but now your the proud owner of a 350... right?

jonmark1985

hey here is another concept, is the minus 23 cubes gonna hurt you?

Apeiron

Yes, since if the crank and/or pistons need machining or replacement, then you can pick up those 23 cubes for no extra money.

Supervisor42

...and I'm not 17 anymore. If I were him I'd make the 327 a RPM engine. Leave the bottom end stock, shave & port the heads, put stiff springs and a 300 cam, a single plane and a dizzy that can handle 7k; drop it in a junk car and have fun with it. Probably cost $800 total. That would be a lot of fun for a 17 year old and would scare the crap out of a Honda.
He would learn a lot too without spending his college money.
Don't forget the lead-substitute.

jonmark1985

ok whatever man, this is why GM people drive me crazy, they're all the same, all of them, i don't think the cubes are gonna hurt you, and you can run the same heads, same intake, same headders, same cam, the motors are almost identical, so why is the 350 that much better, the truth is for most people its not that much better, problem is people have found something that works, they tend to stick with it, instead of doing their own thing,

like a 305

there is nothing wrong with a 305, the last just as long a 350, a little short on power, but that can be improved rather quickly, but most people will cry and complain about them, if its free and good, and you wanna use, go ahead,

finally my last and maybe my only legitimate gripe is this thread was started because he was wanting to know some "tips for checking the engine out" not if he should transform it into a 350, why do all these posts always get twisted, come on your the moderator here, your here to preserve these posts in their original intent

i don't mean to make anyone mad at me, so im apologizing in advance, sometimes i get carried away

ResurrectingZ

350 engine and parts are extremely easy to come by and for a budget motor that has lots of possibilities, 350 is the way to go. What was the saying "There is no replacement for displacement"? and would this apply?

"finally my last and maybe my only legitimate gripe is this thread was started because he was wanting to know some "tips for checking the engine out" not if he should transform it into a 350, why do all these posts always get twisted, come on your the moderator here, your here to preserve these posts in their original intent"

Why? Because at sometime down his/her lifetime he/she will see how much money invested has been wasted when they realize that those "23 cubes" is not going to give that extra performance that they desire. We are not twisting the thread, more of a mere suggestion of better options. Hell put a 5HP Briggs and Stratton on a Go-cart and compare it with say a 3HP powered Go-cart (if they were easily had) and tell me which you would prefer? You can make the power but you will end up spending much more than you planned to make it perform as you want. Go ahead and do your own thing, but as you state in your previous post, don't cry and complain when you lose.

Apeiron

The 350 is better because it has 23 more cubes than a 327. It also has a much wider selection of moving parts available. The 383 is better because it has 56 more cubes than a 327. It's as simple as that. Some people would rather stick with something that works, than go with something "different" that works less well. For those that don't, there's a wide range of offerings from Ford.

You'll also notice that I didn't tell him he has to build a 350. I said if he has the budget, and if he's already replacing those parts, then he's better off building a 350, or a 383. Paying for new 327 parts is a waste of money, if your primary motivation is making power. If his existing 327 parts are reusable, and he decides that replacing them on a whim is out of his budget, then there's nothing wrong with building a 327.

ljnowell

wow i love it. About every three months this stuff hits. A 327 does not REV higher than a 350, unless built to. RPM range is determined by valvetrain. Cam and supporting hardware, not stroke. Its an air pump, in and out. If you want to be different, build something slower.

I could have almost agreed with you until you said the stuff about a 305. What a joke.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I think I'd concentrate on what he really has, since Chevy didn't make a 327 in 1970, much less a 300 horse version. After the 350 came out in 1968, the 327 was relegated to base-engine, 2bbl status.

The earlier, small-journal 327's had steel cranks. The '68-'69 "large" journal cranks were cast.

Only if it is the later "large" journal variety would the 350/383 crank thing work.

The heads most likely are low compression/low flow units. Your 305 heads with 1.94" intake valves and some basic port clean-up on top of the 327 shortblock wouldn't be a bad combo.

Get the block and head casting #'s for us. Crank, too, if you can get to it. That would help a lot in defining what's the best course of action.

I'm pretty fond of my suggestion, though.

If it really is a 1970 engine, most likely it's a 300 horse 350.

1320_Guy

iTrader: (3)

Your missing the point. Although you are right that cam and valvetrain determine what rpm the motor makes power it has nothing to do with how well it will stay togeather at high rpms. The shorter stroke of the 327 puts less stress on the botom end than the 350.

Supervisor42

(I always wanted to use that smiley) Camaro5690: If you haven't pulled it out of the frame yet - don't. You should fill it with water and try to get it running first. It may not have anything wrong with the bottom end. Ape is right, if the pistons have to be replaced or the crank needs to be worked, it won't cost a dime more to rebuild it as a 350.
If you use the original heads on it you will have to use lead-substitute because of the non-hardened exhaust valve seats. The heads should also lack the front accessory bolt holes. If it's going in any thing '75 or newer that will be a big problem. (BTW, Ape, good point about the 305 heads wish I hada thought of that)
Post the block casting number and the head casting numbers if you can and we can tell you what it really is.
(let's all pray it ain't a 307)

jonmark1985

i wasn't aware that i was a competition?

D BERRY

iTrader: (2)

Kinda scared to poke my nose in this arguement but. I remember when the 350 came out, the Novas with a 350 didn't have anything on the 327 Novas. Course those were both factory engines. Which engine has the most potential, well thats easy the 350 of course. There are lots of guys that are really partial to the 327, especially us older dudes. But if I had a real 300 horsepower 327 I'd sell it to some guy looking to do a restoration or something, hey simple economics ya know. You could probably get enough to build a pretty good 383 or maybe even a 406.

Dave B

jonmark1985

Ok, I think I’m going to be one of the only ones to make a reasonable post here.

Camaro5690 I would take the motor down at least somewhat. Please understand that I am not a professional engine builder but I feel these are general suggestions.

If you want a minimal tear down id plastigauge the motor, check the timing chain, and turn the oil pump by hand and make sure it is good, crank the motor over by hand and dump transmission fluid down the spark plug holes.

For a bigger slightly more complex night;

1 I would put a dial indicator on the rocker arms and a degree wheel on the crank and establish some particular camshaft specs.

2 Then I would tear the heads off and pull the valve springs and check their open and closed pressure.

3 Then I would lap the valves by hand.

4 Then I would measure the bleed down of the lifters and keep them in the order which they were taken out.

5 Then I would check the timing chain slack with a straightedge.

6 Then I would pull the crank and then measure the journals, and inspect the bearings.

7 Then knock out the pistons.

8 Pull the rings and keep them in order as to what piston they came off of and what order.

9 Clean and measure the outside diameter of the pistons.

10 Then I would hone the cylinders.

11 Then I would measure the diameter and roundness of the cylinder walls.

12 Then I would check the gap of the rings.

13 Then I would thoroughly clean and assemble the motor replacing any parts that are questionable or beyond specifications.

Please pm or email me with casting numbers and ill do my best to get you specifications from the Chilton’s Chevrolet Engine Manual. I also am very interested in how the build goes. My email is jon1985sigel@hotmail.com please send me an email on this project.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

$125 to balance a 350/383/400. it'll spin to 7k with no issues.
having said that, a cam/intake/heads that makes power to 7k is questionable as far as streetability. so there goes most of the positive benefits of building a 327. unless your shooting for 8k.... to put in your nascar.


if its free, id probably sell it or trade it for a 350 or 400. or build it... im sure it will be fun either way.

ResurrectingZ

If your not building it for looks or for streetability, or IF it is for someone else who IS trying to make some horsepower for that reason, then why waste your time? 350s are a dime a dozen and easily had. If you would rather he waste his time and money on something that you have no idea is HIS goal, fine, go for it. That being said there is a much wider market for the 350 than a weaker 327. Build you 3HP Go-cart, but when you need it, it won't be there.

jonmark1985

sounds to me like he wants to build a 327

xgtharo86x

iTrader: (1)

take it from someone the same age im 17 and i got a 305 as well id do anything to get it out...id take the 327..rebuild it to wut you want to learn how to build and engine..then see if u like it and if not sell it..and get a 350..hes looking for what every 16-17 yr old wants...we want the tires to spin 30ft and chirp second gear(cant do that with a 305) and to show off to the hondas...hes prob not looking for a 10 sec car just something to build and mess around with...and if he is my friend at the track has a 327 in his 88 camaro and it hits 11.47 with no prob..plus its different..everyone has a 350/383/400..PLUS THE ENGINE WAS FREE

SpitotRs305

that must be one mean 327... probably unstreetable.. right?

xgtharo86x

iTrader: (1)

ya he tows it

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

3.875" stroke + 4.030" bore + 6" rods = one hell of a beastly 396 Small Block. I've built one with Dart Iron Eagle 200s on it. Nice roller cam. Performer RPM intake. 780 CFM Holley. More torque than you could possibly use and still could turn 6,000 rpm.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'm still waiting to hear what the engine really is.

Slayre

These threads kill me. NEVER ask opinions, you always get a billion reasons why/why not to build whatever it is you asked about. Its always better to state what your GOING to build then ask specifics. You get better response or they tell you to do a search. But the threads are entertaining.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

FWIW, this is why I recomeend a 396.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yVcQ3XD-qTc

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

why not a 408? 4"bore 4" stroke, 6.125 rods i think?

Supervisor42

Sure. It's called a Ford 400. We need a taller cam bore and deck to run that long of a stroke (World). In my book when you change the block it's no longer a SBC.
BTW, anybody besides me notice that the original poster has left the building?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

yea he seems to be AWOL

Camaro5690

iTrader: (1)

Im back, Ive just been really busy. I can get the casting numbers today, but I prolly wont be able to get to the crankshaft. All I know right now is its a 2bbl and doesnt have "double hump" heads. My dad says he might have some of the double hump heads hiding somewhere. I wanna keep it a 327, mainly because its unique. Im building more for long lasting than for power, My stepdad is going to teach me how to blueprint an engine when we build it so it will last longer and have a little more power. Im thinking of going with forged insides for extra strength. Im not to sure about doing a stroker kit, if I wanted a 350 or 383, Id start with a 350, and then Id prolly end up building just a 355.

p.s. its got a 12 bolt rear end on the rolling chassis should I check that out?

Supervisor42

Well, good for you. Everybody hear that: "I wanna keep it a 327, mainly because its unique." Now the good news: the 327 will get better gas mileage than a 350 or 383 built to the same power level. I would leave the rods and crank stock. Plasigauge the bearings and if they are within spec just put in new bearings. In stock form they will support any level of power that is streetable. The stock pistons will support 300 hp. If they are not worn too bad consider keeping them. This will save the cost of having it balanced. The heads on the two barrel version of the 327 cannot be improved. 1.72" intake valves and runners so small you can't fit your thumb in them is a sight to behold. Heads and valvetrain is where to spend your money. Oddly enough the main thing to think about first is what kind of gas you want it to run on.
We're all waiting on that all important block casting number...

ljnowell

I would disagree that a 327 and 350 built to the same power would yeild a more effecient 327. To build a 327 to the same hp rating it will require more radical go go parts. Alas, you can build a nice engine, because its still a SBC. get some good heads and a decent cam, and have fun.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

A 327 built with the same parts might get better mileage than the 350, but that's about as far as you can take that comparison.

Not much point to the discussion until it is known what exactly the engine is.

327???

you can make that cheap 327 faster than just about all the cars in the school parking lot for fairly cheap. mine had some crappy (70's) 305 heads, no porting, an xe268, and a perf.(non rpm) manifold. there was a bit over $500 in this engine. the car with 3.73's ran 14.5 all day long and would have gone faster without the 2.5" exhaust.(yes a 350 would be faster, thats what i'm building now) that's pretty fast at 17. when you really want to go faster, later on, sell the 327 rotating assy. and make it a 383.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Camaro5690, PM me when you know what engine you've got (at least the casting #'s). Until then, this is