InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I've read some books, and I'm anxious to get started building my motor, or at least my shortblock.

I'm gonna buy:

Speed Pro Hypers for my .060 over block
These rings
Eagle cast crank for 2 pc RMS block I have
Ohio Crank I5700P rods

What else does that leave?



I'm confused about what main/rod bearings I should get. And what about wrist pins? Dont I need those too? Harmonic balancer? That kind of thing. Im not realy sure what all to get other than the obvious I already listed. And should I bother getting all this stuff balanced? This isnt going to be a high-revving racing motor, at least most of the time it wont be, but it's not stock size pistons and not a stock crank either... so I'm not sure how necessary it would be to balance it. How much does it cost to get the rotating assembly balanced, and then what all do I need to do that? Crank, bearings, rods, and pistons? Or is there more?

Im just stressig over the small things.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Well, Alot of times it is best to buy an entire engine assembly kit such as the ones from summitracing. However, you will need to balance everything anyways.

You will need a new balancer, and oil pump, and I am assuming you are getting the block hot tanked and new cam bearings put in and new freeze plugs and the works.

The engine kits are great because they usually add the things in that you forget.

So you want

Pistons, Rings, Rods, Bearings, Caps, Freeze plugs, Oil pump, Oil pickup, Usually a new oil pan, timing chain set, new pushrods, new lifters, new rockers,

Then you can think of the other odds and ends, that help improve the engine. Buy a performance build up book, and they discribe what oil ports you should wallow out to increase oil flow in certain areas, where to restrict it.

So take a step back, and think, what kind of motor do you want? What kind of fuel do you want to use, then we can talk about compression ratios, drivablity, and reliability.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure if those rings are moly coated. I'd double check that, or spend a few extra nickels and get ones that are.
I like those rods, I have them and are a fan.
Pistons come with pins.

I prefer summit over jegs, and I like the summit brand bearings. They're 1/2 groove IIRC, and about $12 for mains, and $12 for rods. They're just peachy.
I'd get a summit $60 non-sfi balancer with the engraved marks up to 60* advanced. That's a great one.
I don't think it'd be worth balancing, if you're not planning on being over 6000RPM for long periods of time.
I'd use a basic M55 oil pump (I think that's the right p/n).

The machine shop might do the cam bearings and freeze plugs for you. It's a good idea to let them.
A 2 piece timing cover setup is a good idea. Get a cheap basic one, use lots of RTV. If you decide you want to swap cams later, that's a good thing to have.

Yea, that's all you need to get the rotating assembly balanced. It's around $300 or so. I didn't opt for it myself.

Those pistons say 1.56" pin height, but I think that's a misprint. I think it's 1.54". Consider getting the block decked to compensate, or getting it 0 decked.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I've got this thing pretty well laid out already, but I figure I"ll iron out the details beyond the shortblock later on.

I've got an, I think, '72 4-bolt 350 block bored .060 over. All the machine work is fresh on it, but my friend who I bought it from had an air leak into his coolant system, changed everything on it over to another block and found out that he had a crack in his heads after all. It's got a few thousand miles on it since all the original machinework. I'm hoping I can get away with just rehoning the cylinder walls but I'm gonna be taking the block out to the machinist as well to see what else needs to be done. But the thing looked really fresh, Im hoping it wont take too much more to get it ready to go.

So in theory I guess the caps, the freeze plugs, that kind of thing should still be okay. I think I remember reading something that made me think I might have to replace all the cam bearings though... but iM not sure, that's what the thread is for.

I've got some Vortec 906 heads for it. They're actually already assembled with guideplates, clearanced for higher lift with springs that can handle higher lift. Also they have 2.02/1.60 valves in them. Now I'm not sure if I'm gonna just throw them on as is or not, because even though I bought them from a guy here on TGO, I realy dont know what these parts on it are. But in a pinch I bet they would work fine, but I just dont know. I'll deal with that when the time comes.





Planning on grabbing a Comp xe262 cam and lifters.


Rotating assembly kits that I've seen are so expensive. I've never seen any that were that reasonably priced and I actually already have all the pistons already, minus one (it got dropped and broken). They've just been sitting in a box... I wouldnt mind buying a rotating assembly kit, though, as long as it costs me less than $1000 or so balanced. Less is better, I dont have excessively deep pockets. I was hoping

I was planning on just getting a straight 350 crank setup, I'd rather avoid dealing with the clearancing for a stroker.

And with the decking of the block, (I think he said it was pretty close to zero-decked, but not quite. I'll find out) a .041" head gasket should get me around 9.6 or 9.7:1 compression. I think. A tad higher than I was hoping but definitely in the right ball park. Not sure if I should go for a set of dished pistons or not. So like I said, I've got a lot of it planned out, just trying to line things up to get started now.

How much of a difference am I gonna see going from 9.7/8 to 9.3:1? I want to be able to run it on pump gas EASILY. I want this to be a toy car, I want it to be stupid quick. But I want it to be a daily driver if I need it to be, and if that means sacrificing power, then so be it. I want this thing to last. I'm sure I'll build another engine in 10 years with the express purpose of snapping my head off when I punch it, but at the moment I'm willing to sacrifice some fast for the sake of practical. THat cam is a bit more aggressive than I expected to end up with... so I may step back down to an xe256. But Im not sure.


http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

I'm looking at this now. It's already balanced, the dished pistons with a decked block should get me a tad closer to 9.5:1. I wish I knew EXACTLY what this block is decked at so I could do some math with headgaskets and piston head volume... But Im starting to lean towards just getting one of these balanced kits now. The only thing is that I'd like get thoes Ohiocrank 4340 rods over the 5140 rods. But Im not sure that would make that big of a difference for me. Maybe I could sell the rods in the kits and put the money towards the ohio crank rods... Not that i NEED 4340 rds, but it's nice. And I dont know if those kits include ARP bolts or not. Not even sure if that's a big deal but I hear ARP this and ARP that about everything.

F-Body Demon

iTrader: (1)

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/3177...ssemblies.html

This one is good

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/3176...ssemblies.html

This one would work if you had a .040 block but eh.

But check out the speedway site too. lots of really good stuff for very cheap.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

do a better set of heads before buying any expensive rotating assembly stuff.

Apeiron

They are.

A new Eagle crank is going to come with unmolested counterwights. It'll need to be balanced.

A 2 piece timing cover is nice, but the cheap ones are all garbage. If you want one, spend the money on the cast Comp Cams one or its Summit clone. Otherwise don't worry about it.
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Not much.

After you assemble the shortblock you can measure how far down the pistons are with a dial indicator.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

You think those cheesy stamped 2 piece timing covers are prone to leaking?

Do you think a brand new crank needs the balance job more-so than a stock one? Hmm, never thought of that, I figured it'd be pretty close off the shelf.

Ok ok, pick what you want. 87 octane, stupid fast, play toy car only, daily driver, snap your neck back fast. Choose! 9.7:1 with lowish timing on vortec heads should be ok with 89 octane. Depending on many other factors. I'd step up on the cam, rather than down ???

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Really? Why is that?

I figure that cam is small enough to be more on the practical side. I've already said I want a fast street car, not a race car, if htat makes a difference.

218/224 seems like it's bordering on the mild side of hot cams to me, but Im not nearly as knowledgable about this stuff as you guys, and I'm likely gonna be running 9.8:1 compression and I know that has a lot to do with it.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

9.8:1 is hefty on the compression side. That's premium fuel territory - unless you use enough cam to bleed off some pressure.
A big cam has that big cam feel, sluggish low end, etc. If you bump up the CR, it helps alleviate that. That 9.8:1 with 218/224 would make it feel totally normal IMHO.
A Compxe256 would feel like a stock car. You'd barely notice it. It'd also ping a fair bit with that high compression. I'm sure you'd need premium fuel there. It'd be faster than stock obvously, but I think with the modified vortecs, you're leaving power on the table. An xe262, or even the xe268 isn't really a "wild" cam yet. That's high enough CR that it'd offset the slight loss in torque from an xe268. That's easily a streetable cam.