WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

OK, i got the afr 210 race heads p/n 1050. they come with roller springs with these specs; installed height 1.9" at 144 lbs. open, 426lbs at .650, 396lbs at .600, 370lbs at .550 im thinking these are going to be too much for a hyd flat tappet cam with lifts in the .580 range. Anyone have some input on if these will work or what springs i should change to? thanks

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

For racing only, they're probably OK. For street use, too much.

They're probably too much for break-in, regardless of the usage. This would be a DEFINITE case of needing to remove the inners for the first half-hour or hour of operation, which would need to be at moderate RPMs (2000-4000 or so).

Check with the cam mfr; they're the ones that will, or won't, warranty the cam. Whatever we say here has no standing with them.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

AFR 210 race heads, with .580" lift HYDRAULIC flat tappet cam? Why not a solid flat tappet?

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

i dont know why, mainly because its more of a set it and forget it, im trying to keep it simple, if i decide to go solid flat tappet, am i going to be able to keep the springs i have or get new ones either way?

5678TA

hydraulic flat with Afr 210's?!?! you should be going roller with heads like that.. or at least a big solid flat tappet.. pressures do seem kinda high.. i would try get it down to 130ish seat pressure..

Damon

Compare them with the specs on the springs that are recommended for use with that cam by the manufacturer. I bet it will be more like 120-130 on the seat and in the low 300s over the nose. Yes, they sound like a bit much for a flat tappet hydraulic run on the street.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I'm just thinking that with those big heads, and the large lift cam, you'll need to rev it up kinda high to get into your power band. Floating hydraulic lifters really sucks. You have too big of a cam to have low end, and hydraulic lifters float so you have no high end. Worst of both worlds
At least that *could* happen.

That's why I was thinking solid flat. That should be enough spring for a solid flat tappet of roughly the same size. Like Damon said see what the cam manufacturer says. You shouldn't have to relash the valves more than once an oil change anyway, not a big hassle IMHO.

5678TA

if you have to more frequently, then i would check the cam and lifter for premature wear.. i've heard of people adjusting once every 8k-10k miles..

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

ok i guess ill go with a solid flat tappet cam, i would go with roller, but the shortblock is already assembled and the block work is done, i was going to go with the 195's but i figure if i get the 210's now i wont have to buy better heads in later builds (looking to do f series procharger and more cubes next) thanks for all the input guys, ill just get the recommended springs from the manufacturer, also i guess i had the misconception of the amount of adjustments associated with solid cams, once every 3k+ miles will take a long time driving under 100 miles a month lol

Supervisor42

For non-roller cams, non-stock hydraulic lifters will work to the 7000-7500 range. This is past streetable in my OHpinion. My rule of thumb: If it's going to be driven on the street, it can use hydraulic lifters.
With a .580 lift, he's building for the track anyway...

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

its my weekend car club cruiser, it will see a lot of track time as well, but i would think the duration has more to do with it than the lift as far as streeetability...i've seen MUCH larger cams in very streetable cars.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

With ANY flat-tappet cam, hyd or solid, you'll need to remove the inner springs for break-in.

Once that is done and the lifters are successfully observed to rotate like they're supposed to, you can put the inners back.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Ah, so the hydraulic roller lifters are heavier and float sooner right? I thought even flat tappet hydraulic lifters floated at 6500RPM or thereabouts. I figured .580" lift on a hydraulic flat tappet meant about 4000-7000RPM powerband ( due to the fact that with a flat tappet cam .580" lift is only achieved with long duration, i'm not saying that lift has much to do with powerband), so with hydraulic lifters you'd be narrowing your powerband even further.

Either way, since you said 100 miles a month (which is about what I assumed with such a radical type of build anyway, probably not a DD), I still think you'd be happier with a solid cam. It's an additional tuning device as well, you can always set the lash a bit wide and tame the cam a bit, etc.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Just to add some personal experience. I broke a roller SBC I built so I threw the heads as they were on to a flat tappet SBC. This equaled a flat cam in about a year.

The heads were 200 ETEC. THe springs were a double Crane design at about 425 Lbs/in. The Cam was a COMP cam flat tappet hydraulic extreme marine series. Lift in the .510 area with 1.6 rockers and duration in the 220 area.

My opinion step up to a retrofit roller set up of get some matched springs. Save lots of grief. Got some pics if your interested

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

well that means new cam bearings too, so i'd have to tear the motor down...not to mention 400+ for a set of retrofit roller lifters and a 250+ for a cam...... ill just go with a new set of springs for around $150 and go with solid flat tappet cam

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Post up the cam you think you'll go with. I'm curious what you're thinking about. Sticking with the nitrous on this motor?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Why? You tear em up or something?

F-BIRD'88

Remove the roller springs and get the recomended spring to match your Flat tappet cam reguardless of the final choice.
They are just way too much spring for a any flat tappet cam.
You could either sell them off to recover the cost or save them for another project.

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

I havent picked a cam, but any custom grind roller cam is going to be in that price range. Yes im sticking with nitrous on this one, i already have close to 2000 into my 2 stage directport/plate with progressive controller and extra bottles
i thought roller cams used differnt cam bearings? maybe i was wrong....

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

No, roller and flat tappets use the same cam bearings. All SBC's (even BBC's IIRC) use the same cam bearings.

You meant custom grind flat tappet cam right? Shouldn't cost ya more than $200 or so. Big split pattern due to the nitrous eh?

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

well i had a cam spec'd out already, 241/249 dur @.050 .565/.580 lift on a 110 LSA i'm just going to go with that, accept in solid flat tappet, and get some new springs

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

This sounds like a mostly strip type of car? (or pure strip?)
I might recommend a tighter LSA, especially on a 385 motor. 107 is probably ideal, since it's a custom ground cam...

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

i still want to be able to drive it an hour away to a track if need be, this cam will be fine