1BadaGTA

I'm in alittle bit of a pickle here and need a new motor for my car to enlighten you guys I'm going to be running a t-56 with 3.73 gears and shortys with 3" y-pipe and a new muffler. If I am to put this motor http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...9711&engCat=sb in it what kind of 1/4 mile times would I be looking at? Oh and I want to keep the Tpi so I don't have to worry about changing any electrical wiring.

Supervisor42

Their website is a mess. The description says it comes with intake, carb, and distributor and the picture shows a longblock???
Also the tech specs say it has a hyd flat tappet cam but it has centerbolt valve covers???
Maybe some of the resellers have this info straightened out.
Oh yeah, keeping the stock TPI will give you about 250 HP just like when the car was new. You can expect slightly better 1/4 mile times than stock due to the exhaust upgrade.

1BadaGTA

well what I had meant was I wanted to keep the car (fuel injected) TPI so I can still run all my electrionics and not have to worry about messing with the computer. But now that I think of it maybe since its a speed density car not maf maybe it wont mess with the computer? But I was looking to put that motor in my car but I think I want something to get me to mid 12's. Would that motor cut it or no?

1badrocZ

iTrader: (1)

Mid 12s no. The easiest way to get 12s out of that motor would be to do a cam swap, rpm air gap, and nice carb (700 DP) assuming you can hook up. If you are dead set on the tpi you wont come close to 12s.

Supervisor42

Or buy one of these and not have to swap anything: http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...9710&engCat=sb

1BadaGTA

Isn't the only difference between the two motors is that the one you said I should drop in has the fastburn heads and the other only has the vortecs. I'm sure they are also running diff. cams which might help alittle. But I was running with a 300hp eclipse gst who only got a fender on me until I hit my 5th gear then I pulled on him like it was nothing. Mind you that was with a almost bone stock motor with just headers and cai with the t-56. Now I have 3.73 gears at the house I'm putting in. So wouldn't the bolt-ons I have along with the 330hp motor make almost the same amount of power as that other motor? And I was going to add some nitrous later when I have the money and I heard that if you put that on a stock thirdgen you'd be mid 13's. So with that motor close gears and maybe some juice I don't think that 12's are totally out of the picture but they wont be easy to attain.

Supervisor42

Remember it won't be a "330HP motor" anymore with the TPI on it. Now if you spray it... that's a whole different story.

84z28350

^^^

Yep, the TPI will choke it down a bit!

Another thing you may not have thought about, going to a steeper gear on a TPI isnt usually a great idea. They fall flat on their face in the upper RPMs, you want to keep the RPMs down and take advantage of the gobs of torque the TPIs produce down low.

1BadaGTA

Yeah I know Thats why I got 3.73's that are going in. But I'm going to have to watch it at a launch because I'll prob. just sit there and spin. I was thinking that if I got that motor and just kept the tpi on it for awhile then go to like a hsr or something. After I get some other upgrades like underdrive pulleys, bigger tb then I think the hp #'s would go up to something like 385hp or around there right? Which should put me in 12's if I'm a good driver .

1badrocZ

iTrader: (1)

I think you are missing the whole point. The tpi will not push that motor into the 12s w/o a power adder. A bigger TB and underdrive pulleys are not going to do a darn thing other than empty your wallet. 3.73 are a steep gear for a tpi, you would be better off with 3.42.
Now if you put a hsr on and had the time and ability to learn how to tune the computer with the hsr, then thats a whole different story. Dont think for 1 minute that you are going to have a 12 sec car and not have to mess with the computer. I think you should do some extensive research on here.

Damon

Your stock lower TPI intake won't bolt up to the Vortec heads on that motor. Figure on a rather pricey lower intake from Scogging Dickey to put your TPI system onto Vortec heads. Even then, your EGR system won't operate correctly- there are no exhaust crossover passages in Vortec heads. That could lead to EGR codes in the computer- and guess how you would need to fix that? Yep, turn it off inside the chip or spend even more money to plumb in an external EGR feed.

The cam inside that motor is indeed a flat tappet design. It's 214/224* on a 112* LSA with lift of about .430/.450 with stock stamped 1.5 rockers, if memory serves.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

If you want TPI and the Vortec engine, here's the only way to go (IMO).

http://www.sdparts.com/product/SD360...ripEngine.aspx

1BadaGTA

Well I see now what you are saying 1badrocZ. I was just thinking you meant I couldn't put the tpi into 12's ever. But now I understand what you are saying. But I was wandering why would that motor that I listed lose 80hp just from the intake being a tpi? The cam in that motor only lives up until about 5,300 rpms and I read somewhere on these message boards that if you port the tpi intake you can max out the breathing on it to 5,500 rpms then it loses its breathe (and thats maxing it out I know). So if the cam lives the around the same rpms as the intake how would it lose so much hp? I thought it would match up just fine and since fuel injection is more efficent than a carb I thought it would prob. raise the hp #'s alittle.


That motor would be great but I only have $2500 to work with maybe $3,000 with my next paycheck. Maybe If you guys can tell me some options that would be within my buget it would greatly help. I want to make a mean street machine one that can run with the newer trans am's and camaro's and still be a daily driver.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Scoggin-Dickey developed their Vortec TPI base (~$400) thinking it would be good for people wanting to replace their TPI engine with the 330HO. What they quickly discovered is exactly what Supervisor42 said - it was lame with stock TPI on it. They had to do all the stuff they've done with the crate engine I linked to get up to 330 HP (and then overachieved a little). The "T" in "TPI" stands for "tuned" - as in, the runners are "tuned" to enhance power within a certain RPM range. That range dies at about 4500 RPMs stock runners (arguably lower), and gets to a little over 5000 RPMs with shorter aftermarket runners. Flow is only one issue, which porting partially helps, but stock runners cannot be ported, and are too long for 5300 RPM operation. Porting the stock base doesn't change any of that.

You need to understand you aren't going to get there with $2500. The 330HO engine itself costs that much, and that doesn't include tax and freight. Then you need the base, another $400, plus all the little things that you need when doing a swap (gaskets, hoses, plugs, wires, etc.).

The good news is you wouldn't have to do any PROM tuning from a stock 350, most likely.

Do you need a new engine, or just want to keep up with newer TA's? Either way, I doubt $2500 is going to get you there. If you already have a running L98 with exhaust upgrades, your money would be better spent on TPI upgrades (base, runners), head & plenum porting, cam upgrade, and PROM tuning. Since you've got SD, you really should consider PROM tuning a necessary skill to aquire. You could probably get those things done with $2500, but you probably still wouldn't keep up with LS1's. Maybe LT1's.

1BadaGTA

Well would that motor you posted make a big diff. to my car? $4000 is alot to ask but I can maybe get my hands on it as long as it makes a pretty good diff. And if I went that way how much would they charge for shipping?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Freight is typically $200-$300. Depends upon where you are and what kind of a deal you can make. It would be a significant upgrade over a stock L98.

The modifications to the L98 I mentioned would give you more bang for the buck, as long as your shortblock is in decent shape.

1BadaGTA

Well I thank you for your help but I ran all the ideas passed my dad. Who was awed by the prices of things and said he would give me his 350 motor out of the hot rod Its carbed though so I don't know if that will mess with the computer would it? If I can keep the car going for another year I'll have plenty of money to drop into it so I think that now that my dad said he'll part with the motor for now I should go that route until I have enough money for something else. But can I just unplug the electronics on the intake manifold without having any problems starting or running the car? Sorry about all the ?'s but I'm pretty sure that I'll go this way if I can.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I still don't undestand what's with your current engine.

Whether the 350 carb engine would cause problems depends upon a lot of things, cam being a big one. Need more details about exactly what the engine is.

And, is there anything wrong with your current engine? Is it a 350?

1BadaGTA

Well the motor might have spun a bearing so I was looking for a drop in replacement for it but thats not going to happen because My mother said that the motor is hers and she's not going to let me have it. So my father told me that I NEED to go with a rebuild but he says I should rebuild it into a 383 stroker with trickflow heads. Now he said he would help me with the money issue so I'm going to ask you guys again (sorry ) but what type of intake should I run on the 383 (hsr, carb, miniram, etc.) and what would be a good cam for it? But I don't have unlimited funds prob. going to max it out at $2000 more. But also since I'm spending this kind of money I want this car to GO!

Supervisor42

You sure can. I did. All of the wiring and the ECM is still on my car. I could go back to TPI if I wanted. (and lose 150 HP)
We don't know what state you are in and if you have to meet emmisions requirements and vehicle inspections. This will be the major deciding point on which way to go. If you change to a carbed motor, the only external functions you need to replace that are handled by the ECM are: cooling fan, fuel pump, and torque converter clutch (on auto trans) operation. A bypass regulator will supply plenty of fuel with your existing fuel system to a carb.

1BadaGTA

Well I'm in Fl. But where can I get the 383 kit that I would need to rebuild the motor and do you know what type of cam I can run thats good with a 383? And I'm thinking of running the trickflow heads so would any old intake manifold for a carb fit on them?

1badrocZ

iTrader: (1)

Professional products ( i believe thats what its called) makes a intake that is indentical to the RPM air gap, which is one of the best duel plane intakes. It's called the cyclone i think. I paid around $130 for mine. For the 383 rotating assembly, check summitracing, jegs or doug herbert. They all have good kits, just depends what you want and how much you want to spend.

DartByU

Not identical at all, it's a cheap china made imitation of the best intake around, I'd rather spend a few more dollars and get the real thing. But I'd like to see a dyno run comapring the two.

5.7RamJet

iTrader: (2)

Not to rain on your parade or sound like a jerk, but I think you will be in over your head. I'm not saying that you won't be able to do what your are saying, but it sounds like you have a lot to find out. Unless you know exactly what your are doing from the get-go, there's going to be a lot of surprises and hidden costs that you won't see coming. The good news is (or bad, depending on how you look at it) is that the only way to learn is to do it yourself.

Good luck!
----------
They probably bought the Edelbrock intake and made an identical mold, I bet its almost identical to the real thing. I have seen 1badrocz's in person, it doesn't look like a bad casting, but I didn't see the ports either though.

DartByU

I just don't believe in supporting the Chinese economy when you can support the US blue collar workers, yeah it's more money but it's worth it to me.

1BadaGTA

Well you see my dad is helping me so any little surprises I think I can deal with. But as for the hidden cost not only did my father said he'd help me with some money(because I've done alot for my parents) but I work for napa too . My only real prob. is that I haven't learned cam specs so I dont know really what would be a good street/strip cam for the 383?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Decide first whether you are going to stay with EFI or convert to carb. There are a lot of cams that will work well with a carb, but the selection for EFI is more limited. I would recommend staying with a roller lifter cam, assuming whatever is wrong with your current engine didn't wipe out the lifters. It isn't hard to "over" cam and get yourself into a situation that requires more expensive upgrades to other things such as torque converter stall.

Certainly the least expensive route is carb. I'm not sure Trickflows are the best choice for heads, but they are good. I'd be inclined to save some money and reuse your L98 heads.

A 383 is a pretty big jump. Your engine is the one-piece rear main seal design, so you need a stroker kit for one-piece rear main seal. They are typically more expensive than two-piece kits, but not more expensive than the seal adapter to put a two-piece crank in a one-piece block. The other advantage is one-piece kits are often available internally balanced so you don't need a counterbalanced damper or special flexplate.

You've got a lot of research to do, so I would suggest you start tallying up the costs before you get started. You may soon find you're over the price of the carb'd 330HO. Of course, the 383 has more power potential.

Welcome to the world of cost/benefits analysis. $2000 isn't a lot to work with. Hope dear ol' dad is good for at least that much more.

1BadaGTA

Well I don't think you guys read what I posted in the first place. Now its more like $1000 is the limit that dad will help me with but I have about $3000(of my money) to work with it so total comes to $4000 which I would think is more than enough. I've been looking at 383 kits and the one on summit is about $1000 then I figured convert my motor to a carb.(cheaper) and just get a topend kit from trickflow(includes all valvetrain components cam, heads, rockers,etc.) about $2000. Which leaves the rest up to my dad but he has already got a carb, distributor, coil, and msd box that he said is now mine(lucky me) and then I still can use the $1000 that he said he'd help me out with. So I'm still new to engine building and stuff but I think I've got it made. Right? And I am running a t-56 6 speed tranny behind that motor which came out of a 97 trans am. So I don't need a converter. Prob. will need a new clutch but I'll wait until it goes then replce it cause it'll give me some time to build up my money again. Idk am I on the right track or no?

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

I'd replace it right away, unless it's in seriously good shape. The last thing you want to do is drop everything in only to drive it for 3 months and have the clutch start slipping.

Do you need to prep the block before building?

1BadaGTA

well I got the tranny in like maybe 2 months ago and the clutch was brand new from my work. But the thing is that I dont want to have a new clutch and have a stock flywheel with it. So my dad said I can just hold off until I have the money to get a lightweight flywheel and high performance clutch to match it. So even if the clutch only lasts 3 months it'll give me enough time to get the money. But yeah I'm going to have the block cleaned and bore .030 over all that good stuff. If thats what you meant by prep the block.

Red`84Z28