zrated57

I am debating which heads to get for my 383. I have been looking at the Dart Pro 1 Aluminum Top End kit from Jegs or Summit which comes with intake manifold and assembled heads. They have 2.08/1.60 valves and can accept .670 lift cam. Has anyone used these heads or know anything about them. Which would be better, Eagle Iron by Dart or the Aluminum Pro 1 by Dart. Any and all info on the Dart Heads subject would be greatly appreciated.

systalis

what is your goal for the 383? If you are going to keep the compression below 10:1, I don't really think that aluminum is nessicary, although they do save weight. But does it justify the extra cost? The Iron Eagle heads are really good. Those who run them that I know really like them

zrated57

The 383 is going to be used mainly at the drag strip. It may also be used on some cruise nights, but primairly the drag strip. It'll def. have over 10:1 comp. So far I have Speed Pro Power forged 383 Stroker Pistons, Eagle Forged "ESP" H-Beam Connecting rods and the block is prepped for the build. What are the advantages between the two Dart heads. Can somone tell me which cam to use also. I'm using a retro fit roller cam for sure.

systalis

If you are going over 10:1 and want to run pump gas, you will probably have to go with the aluminum. If you are going to run just racing fuel, then again it becomes a matter of weight. I think the aluminums are like 20-30 pounds lighter a piece. Most people that I talk to that go to the track seem to think that the aluminums are not worth the price, but if you are between 10 and 11 to 1 compression, they could be the difference between running pump fuel or having to run racing gas (or at least a mixture of pump and racing fuel.)

Thats what I have gathered from those I have talked to. Iron eagles tend to be really popular at the track though.

zrated57

Yeah, I think that sounds about right. I want to run at least pump gas and maybe a mixture of pump and racing fuel. What would your say I use for a cam?

jbenge

iTrader: (2)

I've had good luck with my Dart Pro 1 heads. AFR heads are better out of the box (more money initially)but the Pro 1's respond very well to porting(more money spent later). You cam choice depends on the rest of your combo, compression, gearing, weight, torque converter, intake, ect. Just make sure its all matched up together so you can get the most out of your combination. Check my signature for my setup, its very streetable and runs decent numbers at the track...and I'm sure theres a lot left in it once I get back to the track and get it tuned better.

sprojam

wow that thing is flyin. i have never heard of these heads being used usually i see the tfs heads but you have yours tuned in pretty well id say

zrated57

I'll be on the search for a cam now. I think i'll stick with the Dart Pro 1's and see what they will bring me. Who makes your cam?

Damon

Here's the bolt-together combo in my good friend's big fat all-steel 72 Chevelle.....

383 bottom end (cheap parts) with Speed Pro flattops, zero decked
.040" Fel Pro head gaskets
Pro 1 heads- out of the box. 200cc intakes, 2.02/1.60 valves, 72cc chambers (surprise!- not the 64cc ones- they push compression well over 11:1 on a flattop 383. With the 72cc we're right around 10:1)
Comp XE282 solid flat tappet cam & matching valve springs- chain installed "straight up"- no advance or retard
Weiand Team G intake (Like a Vic Jr.)
800 CFM double pumper, rebuilt from 30 year old swap meet core by yours truly (no tuning-all stock jetting and squirters, straight out of the Holley original specs PDF document on their website)
Aftermarket "performance" HEI giving 36* total timing by 2800- no ignition box
1-3/4" full length headers, 3" dual exaust
TH-350 automatic with no-name 3000 stall
3.73s out back
Drag radials

Goes 12.2 @ 113+ like clockwork on a low 1.8 60-foot.

AND IT'S A BOLT-TOGETHER. NO Porting, NO, polishing, NO tuning, 'fer cryin' out loud. If you build this combo for yourself you'll get the same results. It was literally bolted together from a bunch of parts that came out of boxes and went straight into the motor.

zrated57

Man that is a wicked cool combo. it sure does make for a fast run. do u know the hp & tq it?

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

i know i like the heads, i have the same pro 1s as above, my engine is alittle different though my heads have also been fitted with 918 beehve springs, manley race flow 2.02/1.6 valves, and all the necessary comp valvetrain stuff.

10.3 406

my heads have been ported and polished, 20+cfm gain over stock casting on both intake and exhaust.

i have a XR294 comp cam 294/300 .540/.562 110, ported dual plane weiand intake, demon 750, and hooker long tubes.

mine should be together pending i can get a starter issue solved this weekend. it should be a monster though

id go with the 200s honestly. little more port velocity. you are around the same cubes as me

zrated57

I think the ones I was looking at had 2.08 and 1.60 valves.

Pro 1 Top End Kit
SB-Chevy
230cc intake runners
64cc angle plug chambers
2.08'' / 1.60'' valves
1.550'' valve springs (195# @ 1.900'')
.670'' max lift

I saw a XR304HR camshaft on another post. Would this cam work well with these heads? Thank ya

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

i think those runners are WAY too big for what your trying to accomplish.

shaggy56

Also 2.08 valves may cause valve shrouding in a 4 inch bore and impede flow. Big valves like that are more suited for larger bores.

zrated57

How big of a bore are you talkin? It's 4.030 now if that helps any. What about that cam?

shaggy56

Big bore usually equates to a 4.125 or larger bore.

zrated57

I got ya, that totally makes sense. could you recommend some assembled heads i should use? and a roller cam? please thanks

shaggy56

Nothing wrong with the Dart Pro 1s. Just you seem unsure if you want an all out race or street/strip car. Lots of the setups that were already posted can do every well on the street. Remember the more radical you build the engine the less it will maintain good street manners. Especially with the high costs of fuel you may never drive your car on the street again with an overly radical car. Lots of guys boast they drive their cars on the street but I bet they dont drive it as often as you would think. I personally like the setup Damon posted but I am a man of modest means.

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

the pro 1s are a nice choice, but 200cc runners would be better suited for your application, trust me, im running them on my 406.

230s are more something youd see on a circle track car or something that doesnt see lower rpms

zrated57

Yeah, I totally understand. That makes sense. The car will be used primairly for the drag strip in mind. I will, however, use it on weekend occations, like going to the carshow or cruise nights, where low RPMS would be in need, but most of it's life will be spent on the track.

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

i built mine in mind of having a good track combo that i could street. 200 seems right for a car that will serve as a weekend warrior that wants to turn soem good times at the track. they also respond to porting, i had a mild port job (smoothing, short side radius, bowl work) and picked up 20 cfm of flow!

zrated57

do i have to use special valve springs for a roller cam, or will a roller cam use the same valve springs at flat tappet?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

You can get the 2.050 intake valve for the Dart Pro One. Might be a better choice that the 2.08.

zrated57

yea i think that's what i'll do. what would be a wicked good cam with the 215cc runners and the 2.05 valves? i want a hyd. roller?

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

remember, the bigger the runner isnt always the better, really the only gain you MIGHT see from the 215 would be at rpms that the engine wont normally see, while you sacrifice some of the low, mid end.

bigger isnt always better. 200 is more than enough for your CI and bore.

you see people everyday running 195s with 2.02 valves on VERY stout street/strip engines. hell ive seen some IMPRESSIVE flow numbers out of a 195. I know guys that run 195s on alot more bottom end than you and i have.

if you want alittle more cfm, you can always port.

as for springs, just get what the cam recommends, yes there are cams built for roller cams, as the ramp rates are far more aggressive than flat tappet.

im using 918 beehives on mine. on a XR294 cam.

zrated57

would i be able to use the XR304HR cam with the 200cc or 215cc heads with 2.05 valves & .600 + lift springs?

BadSS

Here's a very good article concerning port volumes. While I agree with most but not 100% of the text,,,,,, the dyno numbers are typical of what I've seen first hand over the years. Keep in mind that the lift on the cam used was not tapping into the full potential of the larger heads that flow considerably more at higher lifts.

Articles That Use Comp Cams® Products

If you have a power or ET goal in mind, find the heads with the flow numbers needed,, then pick the one with the smallest volume. This way you'll have the most responsive engine you can have while still putting down the numbers. Plus, you can cam down in duration and up in lift on the larger higher flowing heads and get back a lot of the responce you may loose with the larger volume and the added lift will typically generate a greater power increase.

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

that is a good read.

is this your first engine build?

Damon

The combo I posted above probably makes about 450HP at the crank, given the MPH and the incredible bulk of an all-steel 72 Cevelle (plus 225 lb. driver).

Not magazine hype numbers- REAL numbers with all the accessories turning, through a real-world exhaust system.

Torque I have no idea becuase it's so difficult to differentiate engine torque from torque converter multiplication using a 3000 stall converter. Let's just say it's got enough torque to burn the DRs down on the street and still spin them good at the track aired down and warmed up if you aren't careful about how you launch. It's no low RPM pig.

I'll also mention that this motor has been viciously abused over the last 4 years- detonation, blown head gaskets, overheating, flaky ignition systems, and..... oh yeah, wiping all the lobes on the first XE282 we shoved in it 2 years ago. We didn't rebuild the bottom end, we just changed the oil and filter and shoved a fresh cam in it. By the time we got it all figured out it was already tired- and that's when we finally laid down the good numbers that I posted, above. With a fresh motor In a 3rd gen Camaro with any kind of traction it would be a high 11 second ride almost certainly.

BadSS

I've built a number of complete small block Chevys, most in the 400 - 500 horse range and a few close to and over 600 horses - most all on pump gas, installed and sold hundreds of parts (before, during, and after I had my speed shop), and tuned on well over 50 street and strip cars (mostly carbed). I did not make a recommendation for his engine,,, just giving him some information to help him make his own decision.

There is no question you want the smallest port possible as long as it will accomplish your HP or ET objective. Usually that is best obtained as you suggested by going with a smaller sized port and working the pocket area and blending things in to up the flow while keeping the volume as low as possible. I personally like the 195 Canfields for a large range of combinations,, they’re reasonably priced, respond well to a minor clean-up, and out flow many (most) larger volume heads up to .5 lift right out of the box. I do like Dart products though. The 215 Iron Eagles are excellent cast iron heads and hard to beat the bang for the buck in the right application and I’m running an old set of hogged out Dart 220s myself. However, I have not used any of the Pro I heads, although they appear to be working well for people that have posted so far.

I did NOT post the article to question the power anyone is making or the capability of their particular combination. It’s a good reference and reflects what I’ve seen with my own experiences,,,,, that higher flowing larger volume heads do not necessarily kill the bottom end power - especially if you "cam" for it. Anyway,, just saying there are other factors that come into play other than the head volume.

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

lol man i wasnt referring to you badss, i meant that question towards zrated57

zrated57

Yes, this the first actualy build I'm doing where I have to find parts to match. I've rebuilt a number of engines, but they were just with stock OE parts and such. But this being the first powerful build and need all the advice I can get. I really appreciated everyones input. That article was very informative and something that should be taken into consideration. I didn't know a lot about head flow, although I knew it was important, I didn't know that too much was not always a good thing. Now knowing that I will surely find some small cc head flows. I think 200cc would be a decent range and I have sent a request to comp for a cam recommendation. I figure now that it's not the best idea to just buy a cam and buy a pair of heads unless they are going to perform well with each other. Any other information that will help me with this build would be great, so keep the replies going. I do a lot of searching on this forum, because I am spending a lot of money and I don't want it to be a waste. Thanks everyone.

BadSS

My bad Randy, no wonder I couldn't figure out where that question came from - lol. I hate posting magazine links because so many automatically assume when you do,, that you have no personal experience to reference,,, and thought that was why you were asking ME the question. Oh well,, hope it didn't come across as hostile, didn't intent it to be.

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

lol man no sweat, i shouldve quoted the other guy, but i guess i was in internet lazy mode lol... all is good

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Read the ariticle with some comments. Like was said above the lift of the cam was no where it should have been to take advantage of the heads. Two, I did not see where the combustion chamber cc's of each head was listed. If one head was 64cc and the next 72cc that will skew the outcome as the compression ratio would be different. 3rd, my Dart Pro 1 200cc heads with 2.05" intake valves outflow the 230cc heads that were listed. Mine were cleaned up and flowed at a local shop. They flowed 264cfm at .500 lift and 276cfm at .600" lift.

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

i agree, mine just basically gasket matched and smoothed flowed 20 cfm above stock flow bench numbers. mine are 200 also still room for improvement

shaggy56

Can you post your flow numbers and what valves you have? It would be nice to know real life flow for these heads as a comparison. Im surprised noone has created a database of aftermarket flow numbers flowed by local shops.

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

i dotn have them here but i will post them up at a later time.