pyro719juggalo

Who has it and what parts and mods did you do?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Tim burgess, nitrous. 11.xx time, TPI 305

Or mwnova66, 13.05, NA. 4bbl 305.

LO3's aren't fast.

Token

pyro719juggalo

So the LO3 is not worth building into a performance engine? And Why?

Token

Not at all. Take it from someone who has tried- like me. I spent less money building a mild 350 than I spent on my 305 to have less than 300 horsepower. You will regret modding a 305, I can promise you. A lot of people don't feel like pulling an engine and swapping a new one in- that's fine... but modding the 305 you might as well throw your money in the trash can. You'll be in the 14s at best unless you have some SERIOUS cash. Save yourself the struggle, start with a better platform.

90FormulaWS6

Once i get my gears installed, I should be mid 13s w/ TBI, this all for under $1700.

edit go to my profile for mods.

Token

Here, look at my signature. It would be longer but I wasted $1500 on a stupid 305 TBI.

pyro719juggalo

yea it sounds like id be better off with a 350. I just thought if I added a zz4 cam in take and carb I would be around 300hp Guess not!

90FormulaWS6

well you might be around there at the flywheel, but your gonna need to do a whole lot of tuning to get it all out of it. ive been tuning my car for 5 months off and on and its still not perfect, but then again i dont think ill ever be satisfied with the tune.

Unless you hell bent on doing something truly unique to your 305, then id suggest going for a 350 because its easier.

CreepingDeath94

iTrader: (4)

I think the problem lies in trying to mod a 305 TBI...I think you can get some fast times with the TPI setup on it and not spend too much more than you would changing to a 350 and modding it...

90FormulaWS6

This isnt true, TBI can be as fast or faster than TPI.

CreepingDeath94

iTrader: (4)

If thats the case, then you should be able to make a killer 305 with either application without spending a boat load of money. I just dont know much about the TBI setup. I dont believe in the 305 bashing that usually goes on either though...

90FormulaWS6

i agree, with the correct mods and the correct tuning the 305 can be made to perform regardless of induction

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

15.20s @ 95ish in a 5,300 lbs Fullsize Van with a 312 (.040" over 305), heavily ported 081 TPI heads, BIG crane retrofit roller cam, Holley Projection/Edelbrock 3704 manifolds (2" bores on both), 454 TBI assembly, 68 lb/hr injectors at 32 PSI, VAFPR, lots of prom tuning, 1 7/8" X 3" headers, 3" dual exhaust, 2,800 stall in the built 700r4, 3.73 gears, P295/50/R17s.

I had maybe $600.00 into the long block making 300 RWHP.

It needed less cam, more gear and possibly more stall. To me it was a dog out of the hole. But then again 5,300 lbs is not easy to push from a dead stop either.

Mcdamit

Fastest a TPI305 will break is a high twelve completely N/A. Its gonna cost ya,, and your gonna spend alot of money doing it.

You would need off the bat.. New Injectors, an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, a ported plenum, a ported baseplate, ported large tube runners, headers, exhaust, rear end gears (3.45's work nice for the 305's powerband), at least a 268/272 cam, heads with 1.94 valves and 1.55 exhaust, 10:1 pistons, and a full computer tune, manual transmission obviously.

That will shutup an LSX.

pyro719juggalo

Im doing away with all the emissions junk and the computer and putting a carb on. If the 305 isnt fast then I can tranfer all my mods to a 350 later. I am going to run a 150 shot on it.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

For maybe 660 feet.. after that any TPI setup is going to get trashed by an LSx motor.

Token

those heads would hold you way back... as well as your poor displacement.

sasser43

TPI's hold their own down low, up top is a different story.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

He did not mention a stock TPI piece in that list, IIRC. The aftermarket is there for TPI with the right $$$.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

If Fast355 were to have put his 312 combo into an f-bod it would have the potential to run low 13's. JPrevost ran a 13.5 with his TBI vortec 350 and had a slipping trans. Lo-tec ran a 13.5 with his swirl port headed and LT1 cammed LO5.

Dewey316 ran a 14.5 with a cam, tuning, 3.42's and headers. That doesn't sound worthless to me for $1000 in mods. He then ran a 12.9 with a small shot on top of that combo.

People who throw parts at a TBI set-up and fail to do the necessary ECM work all come back crying and claim TBI is junk. Granted it is not intended for all out performance (best suited for a DD with economy and emissions in mind) it isn't worthless (per Dewey's and Fast355's results). That is unless you feel dropping more than a second off your ET for only $1000 is worthless.


The best LO3 times have yet to be seen. TGO has unlocked a tuning crowd that has figured these cars out. TBI cars are unique in that power is made in the chip. Certain parts will make it "theoretically fast by hot rod standards" but without the chip work the set-up isn't going anywhere. Stay tuned because many people on TGO are about to eat their words.

sasser43

Yes but i was referring to urbanhunters post who was referring to Mcdamits post. If that makes sense. Mcdamit gave a list of mods to a 305 TPI that would "shut a lsx up"

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I have to wonder what it would have done in my G20 with a 60' of less than 2 seconds. My fastest was a sundial slow 2.18, ETs were correspondingly high, but my trap speeds were in the mid 90s though!


I agree with you word for word.

90FormulaWS6

shiftys got it down to a T

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I ran both my G20 and a theoretical Camaro RS through Car Test using DD2003 number of my HO LO3. Keep in mind the van ran the following

0060' = 02.18
0660' = 09.93 @ 74.7
1320' = 15.23 @ 95.4

Here is the simulation of my G20, 5,300 lbs, 3.73 gear, P295/50/R17s, 2,800 stall, launch at 1,200 to keep from burning the tires (thats what I launched at), the simulation predicted light wheelspin (which there was in real life)

0060' = 02.21
0660' = 10.03 @ 75.8
1320' = 15.32 @ 92.7

The simulation predicted 21 MPG Highway, I was able to get 19+.

Now insert the same driveline into a 3,550 lbs 1990 RS Camaro with 3.23 gears, 2,800 stalled 700r4, P245/50/R16s, 800 RPM launch (simulates lighting the tires up) LOTS of wheelspin showing in the simulation.

0060' = 02.14
0660' = 09.01 @ 87.8
1320' = 13.32 @ 106.3

The simulation predicts 26 MPG highway.

I guess bottem line is there should be a low 13/ high 12 second pass out of a NA 305 powered F-Body with reasonable street manners.

sasser43

Wow, thats a cool program. I knew they had ones that predicted the ET but i didn't know it predicted things like wheel spin.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I still gotta wonder....why? 295 17's on a VAN??? I saw the picture you posted of it a while ago, didn't have 17's that I noticed.... either way....

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Because I needed tires and wanted a new set of wheels at the same time. Really made the van handle and grip alot better. I have alot more confidence in slick rainy weather now.

The picture had 255/70/R15s on the stock sized 15" wheels. It now has P295/50/R17s on17" Impala SS rims(5 on 5" pattern).

Rally Smith

iTrader: (3)

You can always stroke it.
Chris 335 Camaro

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

it was actually a 13.03@103mph.

the 305 is going back in with a bigger cam and better heads. hoping to break 12's n/a.

also, don't forget about Willie's tt305.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

When did you decide this? What heads are you going to go with? I am thinking the worked 113s that you have on your current 350, combined with a nice solid roller cam. You should have NO problem running in the high-mid 12s. Especially considering the TAME cam you had in the 305 and the stock 416s on top!

I almost wish that I had bought some ZZ4 heads, worked them, and put them on my 312, I would be in the 14s instead of the 16s.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i decided it when i cracked the 350 block i'm currently using. only money i'm spending is on 1 new .030 over 305 piston, new bearings, rings, and head gaskets.

10.2:1 c/r
worked 113 heads
crane powermax solid cam 238*/248*@.050 .480"/.500" lift 114 lsa.

quick question for you fast355: i'm thinking of notching the top of the bores where the intake valves go to de-shroud them some...think it'll be worth it or just cause more trouble by adding turbulence and hotspots in the combustion chamber?

sully91rs

How much would that cost.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a good combo.

I have never tried that on a small block chevy. I do know that Hot Rod notched the bores on their junkyard 400 HP 318 that they put larger valves on. On the dyno it showed no ill effects. 2.02/1.60 valves in a 318=shrouding.

Junkyard Jewel:400hp 318 - Hot Rod

EDIT-Trying the picture again.

Then again, if you are running the stock 1.94/1.50 valve size, I see no benifit to notching the block. I ran 1.90/1.55" valves in my 312 and it was a great breather.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

the kits are available through Powerhouse and i want to say they are around $700 total if you get it with balancer and flexplate for a 1pc rear main seal...then plus the cost of clearancing the block.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

do you think i could get away without doing the notches, and run faster than my previous bests?

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I know that the TPI 305 guys switch to stock aluminum L98 heads from stock 081/416s all the time. Yours being worked should show even more of a gain. Combine that with the hotter solid cam and you are getting somewhere. I don't recall of a single one, not improving their times.

I know that this is only computer modeling, but my old 305s dyno numbers (converted to FWHP from RWHP) plugged into a stock weight, fully optioned RS camaro showed to give low 13s with 3.23 gears, 700r4, and 2,800 stall. The numbers are farther up in the post.

Now imagine that same engine in your lightweight camaro.

EDIT- The DD2000 numbers are with stock L98 aluminum head flow numbers from Chevy High Performance.

PS-I made a mistake entering numbers on the first chart.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

would you mind running my combo through your dd2003?

race weight with me in it is 3260lbs.
4000stall 10" ati converter, 700r4
3.73 posi, 275/60/15 m/t et street radials, traction is not an issue.
holley 750 double pumper
holley street dominator intake
cam and heads i posted above with c/r i posted above
hedman longtube headers 1 5/8" x 3" with dual 2.5" pipes.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

This is worst case scenario given that I am using STOCK 113 flow numbers. It should be better with you worked over heads, how much better is unknown without flow numbers. It would be cool to find out how close these numbers really are on your combo. On mine they were damn near what I actually ran.

Not that I am assuming a few things with this, first are all the constants. 65 degrees farenheit, 29.38 in/hg barometer, 55% humidity, 5,800 rpm redline shift points.

0060' = 01.97s @ 37.23 mph
0660' = 08.48 @ 84.27 mph
1320' = 13.12 @ 105.3 mph

Keep in mind that I modeled using STOCK 113s as I could not find a reliable source for ported 113 flow numbers (they are all way different).

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

hmm...best 60' with old combo was a 1.75...is there a way you could plug that in? cause it should run way better than that to the 60'.

i believe the mph may be pretty close, i'm expecting 106ish mph...which with a properly setup car is good for 12.6 or 12.7

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I played with the Launch RPM and the coeffiecient of friction, even bumping it form 1.00-1.50 trying to model slicks, it only helped a little. Modeled tons of wheelspin.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i keep thinking that it's 1 tenth drop in the 60' is worth 2 tenths on the big end...that right there would imply a 12.7 pass...so i suppose i'm right on track.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I am thinking that I have heard the same rule of thumb somewhere too. Puts you close to my initial guess of high-mid 12s.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

excellent!

r0nin89

Agreed. Anyone who cant get power out of a LO3 simply cannot tune the chips properly. Not to mention a mid 13sec N/A car that gets 18mpg and is driven everyday sound pretty good to me... Hell $800 dollars for a big open element into a cowl that feeds it fresh air and hookers headers 3inch all the way out gives you around 230-240hp. Thats just bolt on... throw in a $200 cam $800 Heads and your well near 300hp. Then TBI porting, spacer, Intake manifold larger injectors and fuel pumps and a good chip tune from a knowedgable person and your hittin 300hp

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

You are not going to be hitting 230-240 HP without chip tuning and increased fuel delivery. The most HP I have ever gotten out of a 305 with the STOCK chip is 193 RWHP.

sasser43

Yea the rule for 1 tenth in the 60 is 2 tenths in the total ET works fairly acurate.