IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

this weekend im planning on starting to tear apart my camaro for body work and paint.. but before i start that i want to clean up the engine bad a lot..

i have a whole network of coolant lines running all over on the passanger side engine bay, most going to a black square box about 4" sqare (well cube shaped) , is there any way i can eliminate some of these hoses, by rerouting them to work without entering the ugly box...

ive got some nice valver covers and and a clean engine everywhere else, but these hoses cover up stuff, and make it too cluttered

which hoses can i run to which inlets, how does the flow go? why does it appear to be different on my brothers 87 GTA TA from my 87 IROC??

any help is appreciated.. photos as well...

Stekman

Do you need heat? If yes, leave those hoses that go to that "black box" - which is the blower motor, heater core, etc case. The 2 hoses that go to that are the heater hoses.

If you don't, just find where the 2 hoses end (on the radiator/water pump/block) and put a hose from one to the other.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Yup. Thats all I did. I just have upper and lower hoses. Its a summer car so I never need heat. I plugged the radiator port and the one on the intake.

ZZ28ZZ

I would connect the port on the front of the intake manifold to the port on the radiator like Stekman said.

I'm not sure abt capping the heater hose port at the front of the intake manifold would be a good idea. When the thermostat is closed, where is the water flowing thru the eng supposed to go??

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

It doesnt matter.

Zed'er

The only thing on the front of the intake that connects to the radiator is the thermostat housing/waterneck. The other hose runs directly to the heater core.

Capping the heater hose wouldn't hinder the circulation of coolant throughout the block. It travels in a continous loop from one side of the block to the other via the pump, not the heater core. what do you think electric pumps do?

ZZ28ZZ

He wants to bypass the heater core..




Last time I looked at a sbc water pump it had an inlet for the lower radiator hose and 2 outputs. 1 output for each side of the block.
How is water supposed to be back to the input of the pump with no heater hoses and the thermostat closed???

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Last time I looked at one I have just the big opening. I do not have any other holes in the pump. Ye i have seen them with them but they are used for the heater core when there is not a port on the intake to use.

joe350

I believe that the black box he refers to is the AIR diverter which diverts air from the AIR pump to the exhaust manifold or the catalytic converter. These can be removed, as long as you don't need to pass an emissions visual inspection. Now the sorta mushroom shaped thing is the heater control valve and can also be bypassed as said earlier with no consequences except loss of heater function.

ZZ28ZZ

The output ports I was refering to are where the pump mounts to the block. Some pumps use an extra inlet port on top for a bypass hose (like the 454 in my pickup), but my 3rd gen has that port plugged.
When the thermostat is closed; water flows into the water pump, out of the pump and into the block, up thru the heads, into the intake, out of the intake, into the heater core (if used), back to the passenger side of the radiator, out the bottom of the radiator (still on the pass side), and back into the water pump.
If the port is blocked where water leaves the intake, where's the water going to go?? Nowhere!! It can't (until the thermostat opens).

Here's my theory of what can happen:
Since the water isn't moving, the water that's close to the cyl walls and near the combustion chamber will boil. When the water boils, there's no longer water aginst the hot metal so it continues to get hotter and hotter (locally). The temp differences will cause uneven expansion, leading to warpage and possibly cracking of block and/or cyl head.
Eventually the water in the thermostat housing will get hot enough to open the thermostat and all will be well, but that could take a while since there's no moving water to carry the heat up to the thermostat housing.

See any holes in my theory??

MrDude_1

i think so too... it sounds in his first post like its the AIR system he wants out of the way.

you dont need the heater core (or outlets for) as a "bypass" with the waterpump... the thermostat, even when closed fully, allows some coolent flow.

Guest

Hows that? A closed thermostat, at least a typical SBC one, doesnt have any space or holes to allow flow. You'll be waiting until the rated temp, +/-10 degrees F, until it opens at all. Sometimes people drill them, or some thermostats for other applications that fit a SBC have a small hole and little brass thing that fits loose that can allow flow.

The stock system on a TPI application uses the bypass from the intake base, to the TB, through the heater core or heater control valve (depending on app, some years used a control valve, some didnt) and then outlet into the passenger side of the radiator. Without some form of 'bypass', no coolant will flow until the coolant is hot enough to open the thermostat. Drilling holes in the thermostat can be enough to form your bypass, but you need something to allow the coolant to flow otherwise you'll end up with some weird coolant temperature activity.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I've ran it with just the upper and lower radiator holes for at least 5 years with 0 side effects. We also run my GF's car this way too and its been about 2 years. 0 changes on the coolant temp guage. MrDude is right about the thermo. Its passes JUST ENOUGH so that everything will still flow. What about a V6 motor that has ONLY 2 openings on the radiator? Upper and lower hoses. How does circulate if there was no heat? Same way.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

What about peeps who do the LT1 setup with no heat. What do you do then? Theres only 2 nipples on the back of the intake you have and both go to the remote thermo housing where the thermostat is. You have a dead end there.

ZZ28ZZ

I guess the next question would be; will enough coolant frow thru a "closed" thermostat to prevent the localized overheating I mentioned prev.

Also, wouldn't a restricted flow path cause a serious load on the water pump? I know the water pump isn't a "positive displacement" type pump, but seems like it would be under a pretty heavy load.

I'm not usually this argumentative, but I'm pretty bored today..

MrDude_1

the pump just cavities...spins there with nothing happening..
the load isnt much more then the normal substantial load.
theres 1000s of SBCs running right now with no heat or "bypass" of anykind... its worked for decades that way without issues, so i dont put much worry into it.

Guest

Some engines have an internal bypass, maybe the 6 does. I'm not aware of any in the SBC.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

wow, sorry i havent been online in a while, ive been real busy, gettin my brohers black 87 GTA runing and back together, working, and doing maitenence on my Jeep

i will post up some pictures of my engine bay to here in a few days (like next monday) when i get my better computer back running.. cuz this one is slow and 56k too

-basically i dont think the black box is A.I.R system, because all hoses going into it carry coolant... i've had them disconnected before. however i do NOT need to use the heat or heater core inthe car, because i only drive it in summer spring, and never have to use the heat...

i'm going to take some photos of the hoses and engine bay withint he next few days,, maybe then i can get a better explination

-thanks guys for the help so far

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

please check my updated post in this forum, it has pictures and more information....

link:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=341208

any help is appreciated