twiztidz28

I need to get a new fuel pump. I got the car abck from my mechanic who i have never had a complaint about untill now cause he jsut changed the fuel lines and thaught that would help. well the fuel pump is definatly leaking from the bottom plate. I have a Holley Electric by the way. I am not taking my car to another mechanic and he wants to get rid of the electric all together and just use a mechanical fuel pump. He said it would be about $100 cheaper for him to do and right now that is a good thing. What can i expect from the mechnical vs. the electric.

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86Z28, 350 gm motor, Borg Warner 5 speed, hurst shifter, 3.73's, Edelbrock heads and carb, Edelbrock headers and cat back 3" all the way, 2 1/2" cowl induction hood, and K&N air filter.

jcb999

Prime mechanical advantage: reduced change of fire (or the fuel still flowing) if the motor is turned off.
This requires some type of single pole-double throw switch for an electric.

twiztidz28

sorry but can you explain that in a lil better english.

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86Z28, 350 gm motor, Borg Warner 5 speed, hurst shifter, 3.73's, Edelbrock heads and carb, Edelbrock headers and cat back 3" all the way, 2 1/2" cowl induction hood, and K&N air filter.

F-BIRD'88

The holley blue pumps never seem to last long. Unfortunatly they were never designed
for continous use. Seems every one I've owned
or my friends have owned, has crapped out or started leaking like yours is. So I guess ya got lots of company.
A hi flow mechanial 6/9 psi pump will have more than enough flow and just enough pressure for your carb. Holley, Edelbrock, Carter and Barry Grant are some of the better brands. These 130gph rated pumps can
easily supply a 550 plus HP motor with room to spare. They are very reliable and run quiet. They are much safer the the holley pump. They cost less and most are rebuild able if they do fail. Besides the leaks and unreliable motor the holley pump will always cause flooding if even the tiny-est bit of
dirt gets in the regulator or needle and seat
(pressure creep). Your mechanic is doing you a big favor by recommending that you remove the holley blue pump. Best to take his advice.

jcb999

Well, i have used quality (not holleys anymore since there are larger pumps that are similarly priced) electric pumps for several years with no regulator or leaking probs.

But, in my original post, i was talking about the problem with the fuel flowing even if the motor is not running. Mechanical pumps (by their very nature) will halt flow when the motor shuts-off.

Electrics will keep going as long as their is 12volts to the chassis wiring harness. A way around this is to put some type of switch in the FP circuit that will open the connection when oil pressure drops below a certain point. Mr. Gasket sells them for about 12bucks. That way, if the car goes upside down and/or the motor dies (which it will eventually if the car is upside down), the fuel pump stops and you don't burn the car to the ground.

RB83L69

IMHO your mechanic's advice is sound. I see no reason a mechanical pump will not do what you need, with alot less trouble over the long term.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

twiztidz28

thanks alot for the reply's guy. This mechanic is verry good when it comes to f-bodies. He is going to design me a single exhaust setup that he custom builds and is only $300. I don't think I am going to be taking my car back to my other mechanic ever. F-BIRD'88 are you some kind of fuel freak? everytime I post a Fuel question you are always there to answer my questions. Thanks for all your help. It seems like you have had and seen this problem many of times to know what I am talking about with out seeing it.

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86Z28, 350 gm motor, Borg Warner 5 speed, hurst shifter, 3.73's, Edelbrock heads and carb, Edelbrock headers and cat back 3" all the way, 2 1/2" cowl induction hood, and K&N air filter.

305sbc

iTrader: (3)

i would run electric as
long as it's not in the
freakin tank.



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1986 Iroc 305 small block chevy getting modded now for speed

Grim Reaper

I will tell the one thing I HATE about electric fuel pumps; generally when they go, they go all at once and leave you stranded. To top it off, for TPI, the fuel pump is in the tank.

On cars that I have owned that had a mechanical fuel pump, when the fuel pump started to go, I had some warning - as the car wasn't running right. But it didn't leave me outright stranded - unless I ignored the problem hoping it would "go away" (never does).

As for R&R, an in-tank electric fuel pump is one mother to fix compared to a mechanical fuel pump. Frankly, if I COULD run a mechanical fuel pump on my car, I would.

cort351w

As far as a shut-off switch for an electric fuel pump, I just used an on/off lever switch that I have mounted where I can easily reach it from the driver's seat. The switch is hidden, so maybe sort of an anti-theft device?

Anyway, I have had no problems with it. You can't forget to turn it off, because you can hear the pump running. You won't forget to turn in on because you won't get very far down the road before your engine dies.

jcb999

Ah.. and if there is some type of fire and you can't flip the switch, what happens?
Maybe the fire department will be able to help when they arrive.

twiztidz28

I have that swich and it leaks while the pump is on and while the pump is off. It's not as bad as when the pump is off but like it has been said before you don't go to far with no gas. Does anyone know of a good Mechnical fuel pump. Part#, company, ETC.?

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86Z28, 350 gm motor, Borg Warner 5 speed, hurst shifter, 3.73's, Edelbrock heads and carb, Edelbrock headers and cat back 3" all the way, 2 1/2" cowl induction hood, and K&N air filter.

Apeiron

Carter M6900. Probably all the pump you'll ever need.

Dr. Pepper

I am so in love with the Holley pumps I can't help but to reply. I have thrown four of them in the trash over the last two years. If I won one in a lottery I would just sell it on E-Bay now. Here are a few things I have run in to with their design.

The commutator eats up in them. For those that don't know what that is, its the copper contacts at the top of the motor that the brushes run on. It appears Holley is either using an abrasive brush material or junky copper. Usually they will last 4-6 years in street use before the brushes and commutator give out.

Their pumps also tend to run hot making vapor lock an eye lash away in summer traffic. I am not as certain as to what is causing this. I suspect an inefficient motor design causing the windings to heat up. At reduced voltage the heat build up is far less but the pump flows a smaller volume. A system could be built that inreases pump voltage with increased fuel demand but it begs for problems.

The internal clearances also appear to be inaccurate. I saw one new-style Blue pump that was chipping the windings and rotor on the bolt bosses on top of the pump housing.

Now for the real problem I have ran in to with these pumps. The bearings are lubricated by the gasoline. The seals and bearings are going out fast in these pumps since they switched to reoxygenated gas. Reoxygenated gas has a bad reputation for eating fuel system parts. It dries out gaskets faster than ever and has practically no lubrication properties. Holley has not redesigned their pumps for reoxygenated gas and now is laughing as they blow up outside of the warranty period. Folks, Holley is not a good company and they now own about half of the performance industry. All of their money, power, and fame pretty much come from the 4150/4160 design they came up with decades ago.

Unfortunately I have been told by Jegs and Summit Racing that the Holley pumps are the best pumps they sell and they never fail. As a result they have no inclination to complain to Holley or even slow down on promoting their fuel pumps. I smell a Microsoft type monopoly where distributors have no power to stand up to Holley.

As for electric pumps versus mechanical pumps in general, either is fine. The factory rigs are having no problems with electric pumps. Many systems are controlled by the computer limiting wear and tear on the pump when demand is low. I have known a few people to run the Carter electric fuel pumps on the street for a long time without trouble. In general try to use a pump that is rated for the amount of fuel you really need, not a 650HP NASCAR engine. On the other hand a good mechanical fuel pump is hard to beat. Mechanical fuel pumps are cheap and reliable. If you have a car that has the fuel line at the right location for a mechanical pump that is probably your best bet. But don't sell electric fuel pumps short based on the brown droppings of a big name company.

twiztidz28

I was looking at the Carter Fuel Pump mentioned above and they are selling for $74.00 on one site but then on another site they are selling for $24.50. The $24.50 price seems to be comming from a canadian based company and that is their american dollar price. so I e-mailed that sales dept. and am waiting for a reply. I would like to know what is up with that. their website is http://www.amotion.com/accs.html if anyone whats to look at it.

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86Z28, 350 gm motor, Borg Warner 5 speed, hurst shifter, 3.73's, Edelbrock heads and carb, Edelbrock headers and cat back 3" all the way, 2 1/2" cowl induction hood, and K&N air filter.

F-BIRD'88

The carter electric pumps are beauti pumps.
Electric pumps work the best when used in a bypass return system with a return line going back to the tank. This way they run full out all the time, draw less current (heat) and always have new, cool fuel running thru to cool them.

[This message has been edited by F-BIRD'88 (edited November 13, 2001).]

twiztidz28

What about the mechanical carter pumps. I think that is what I am going to go with.

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86Z28, 350 gm motor, Borg Warner 5 speed, hurst shifter, 3.73's, Edelbrock heads and carb, Edelbrock headers and cat back 3" all the way, 2 1/2" cowl induction hood, and K&N air filter.

F-BIRD'88

I think the mechanical is the way to go.
Just wanted to give my .02 about the Carter electric. I'ts worked very nicely in the past. I'm looking for one now, touse for for my Nitrous kit.

F-BIRD'88

Those are good prices for those pumps on that A-motion site no-matter whose money you use. Wonder if that's a current price.

twiztidz28

I am still waiting on a price back from the sales department on that site. I think at work today i am going to call them and find out and see how fast they ship their products.

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86Z28, 350 gm motor, Borg Warner 5 speed, hurst shifter, 3.73's, Edelbrock heads and carb, Edelbrock headers and cat back 3" all the way, 2 1/2" cowl induction hood, and K&N air filter.

twiztidz28

I got an e-mail back from Doug at http://www.amotion.com the prices on that site are correct. If anyone need a Carter Fuel pump check them out.

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86Z28, 350 gm motor, Borg Warner 5 speed, hurst shifter, 3.73's, Edelbrock heads and carb, Edelbrock headers and cat back 3" all the way, 2 1/2" cowl induction hood, and K&N air filter.

86Iroczttu

I have had all sorts of pumps, two Holley electric pumps, and the Carter mechanical pump (talked about above). The Holley always began to leak or the screen got clogged. I have rebuilt them(they do have rebuild kits)before and they last a while, but not like the Carter.
With a mechanical you won't forget to turn off the pump- but can't use it for an anti-theft device.
My advice- a mechanical is more reliable. The horsepower loss/gains are minimal.

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86 Iroc, 355 ci, Dart II heads, holley 750, Victor Jr., Hooker super comp headers, 4.10 rearend, MSD 6A, roller valve train, high stall converter, true dual flowmaster exhaust, NOS- 150 shot.