questions for upgrading the ole LG4
10-30-2001, 11:52 AM
#1
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questions for upgrading the ole LG4
86 camaro sport coupe - lg4, 700r4 - mostly stock
first off, it looks like my best bet for intake is going to be the edelborck performer (with EGR) - any comments on a better one that fits under stock hood?
secondly, a big queston on cams
should i:
a) get the edelbrock performer package that includes the cam
Duration at .006 Lift: Intake 278° Exhaust 288° Centerlines
Duration at .050 Lift: Intake 204° Exhaust 214° Lobe Separation: 112°
Lift at Cam: Intake .280 Exhaust .295 Intake Centerline: 107°
Lift at Valve: Intake .420 Exhaust .442
Timing at .050 Lift: Open Close
Intake 5° ATDC 29° ABDC
Exhaust 44° BBDC 10° BTDC
B)comp cam:
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/056_057.html
either the xe250h or the xe256h
i've heard good things about the comp cams, but don't know if it will give me more performance than a matched intake to cam
also, the standard quadrajet will be used as computer is intact, and i'd kinda like to keep it that way, along with all the smog stuff which brings up my third point
what would be the best set of headers (already have flowmasters in back) - i suppose that it would need a hole for the o2 sensor also
any other options that i have while i'm working on the engine?
besides of course the obvious drop in a larger cheaper motor
first off, it looks like my best bet for intake is going to be the edelborck performer (with EGR) - any comments on a better one that fits under stock hood?
secondly, a big queston on cams
should i:
a) get the edelbrock performer package that includes the cam
Duration at .006 Lift: Intake 278° Exhaust 288° Centerlines
Duration at .050 Lift: Intake 204° Exhaust 214° Lobe Separation: 112°
Lift at Cam: Intake .280 Exhaust .295 Intake Centerline: 107°
Lift at Valve: Intake .420 Exhaust .442
Timing at .050 Lift: Open Close
Intake 5° ATDC 29° ABDC
Exhaust 44° BBDC 10° BTDC
B)comp cam:
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/056_057.html
either the xe250h or the xe256h
i've heard good things about the comp cams, but don't know if it will give me more performance than a matched intake to cam
also, the standard quadrajet will be used as computer is intact, and i'd kinda like to keep it that way, along with all the smog stuff which brings up my third point
what would be the best set of headers (already have flowmasters in back) - i suppose that it would need a hole for the o2 sensor also
any other options that i have while i'm working on the engine?
besides of course the obvious drop in a larger cheaper motor
10-30-2001, 03:03 PM
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Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: LS1/LQ4
Transmission: 4L60E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Exhaust, cam, heads, intake, in that order. See sig for my choices.
The Weiand Action+ claims slightly higher RPMs, but I've never seen a side-by-side comparison. I found the ZZ3 (new take-off, same as ZZ4) for $75, so went with that.
I ended up going for the largest Crane computer-compatible PowerMax cam in Summit - 216/228 @ .050, .454/.480. A substantial step up from the Performer. I haven't heard good things about the Xtreme Engergy and computers/emissions. A higher stall torque converter highly recommended.
The Hooker headers have the O2 bung, A.I.R. tubes, and 3" slip-on at the converter y-pipe. The only complaint I have about them is the ball flange opening (1.9"), but that will change (have diegrinder, will grind...
).
------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4. 2.93 limited slip. 2-1/2" cat-back, ZZ4 intake, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax cam, Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster, restalled TC, Spohn SFCs).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7 CR forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 600 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).
The Weiand Action+ claims slightly higher RPMs, but I've never seen a side-by-side comparison. I found the ZZ3 (new take-off, same as ZZ4) for $75, so went with that.
I ended up going for the largest Crane computer-compatible PowerMax cam in Summit - 216/228 @ .050, .454/.480. A substantial step up from the Performer. I haven't heard good things about the Xtreme Engergy and computers/emissions. A higher stall torque converter highly recommended.
The Hooker headers have the O2 bung, A.I.R. tubes, and 3" slip-on at the converter y-pipe. The only complaint I have about them is the ball flange opening (1.9"), but that will change (have diegrinder, will grind...
).------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4. 2.93 limited slip. 2-1/2" cat-back, ZZ4 intake, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax cam, Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster, restalled TC, Spohn SFCs).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7 CR forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 600 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).
10-30-2001, 11:11 PM
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what is it exactly that a higher stall torque converter does over my old one?
i assume you installed the crane cam in an lg4, or 305 - how much hp gain did you see, and does that cam keep the low end power intact also? - i'm a sucker for low end torque :-) - in other words, do i have to rev it up to 3000 before i make any serious hp?
Thanks for your help
-RD
i assume you installed the crane cam in an lg4, or 305 - how much hp gain did you see, and does that cam keep the low end power intact also? - i'm a sucker for low end torque :-) - in other words, do i have to rev it up to 3000 before i make any serious hp?
Thanks for your help
-RD
10-30-2001, 11:16 PM
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also, i did a little research on the hooker headers, and i'm a bit confused - can you give me some sort of direction in the way i need to go? hooker competition/ super comp
anything like that
anything like that
10-30-2001, 11:29 PM
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umm my carb is the only thing the same as yours...sorry if i confused ya, i have the CompCams XE in mine, no Crane Compu. But Im thinking the Crane would get along with the Qjet alot better.
10-31-2001, 12:51 AM
#7
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Car: 1989 IROC-1
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700r4
I have a Comp XE cam in mine, 262, so a little bigger than what you're asking about. It is NOT friendly to the computer carb at all. Steer clear there. I absolutely agree with that.
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http://www.gruveb.com/z28
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10-31-2001, 06:14 PM
#8
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Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: LS1/LQ4
Transmission: 4L60E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
I assume you were talking to me about the compucam. Notice it's "work-in-progress" - meaning I don't have results yet. The engine removal to finish the WIP is starting this Friday.
BTW, I wouldn't go with much bigger a cam than the Performer unless you go for upgraded springs and screw-in rocker studs (i.e., World 305 heads), and long slot rockers.
A higher stalling torque converter allows the engine to get up into the cam powerband before the engine has to start moving the car. An analogy is reving the engine up as you let the clutch out in a manual tranny car - if you just pop the clutch out at idle and floor it, the results aren't going to be too pleasant. But, rev the engine up a bit, let the clutch out as you step on it, the engine doesn't bog and you get going much quicker.
Same with a higher stall converter. I'm shooting for a 2200 RPM stall when it goes back together so it's into the cam powerband before the car even moves.
As for headers, the Hooker Competition shorties (p/n 2460, I believe) listed for our cars don't have a y-pipe, and I believe also don't have A.I.R. tubes or the O2 sensor bung. The Super Comp shorties, 2055's, have the y-pipe, A.I.R. tubes, O2 bung, and a CARB EO tag welded on the #1 pipe. For obvious reasons, the Super Comps are more than twice as expensive, but worth it when you figure what you'll have to do to get the Comps plumbed in.
Hope that helps.
BTW, I wouldn't go with much bigger a cam than the Performer unless you go for upgraded springs and screw-in rocker studs (i.e., World 305 heads), and long slot rockers.
A higher stalling torque converter allows the engine to get up into the cam powerband before the engine has to start moving the car. An analogy is reving the engine up as you let the clutch out in a manual tranny car - if you just pop the clutch out at idle and floor it, the results aren't going to be too pleasant. But, rev the engine up a bit, let the clutch out as you step on it, the engine doesn't bog and you get going much quicker.
Same with a higher stall converter. I'm shooting for a 2200 RPM stall when it goes back together so it's into the cam powerband before the car even moves.
As for headers, the Hooker Competition shorties (p/n 2460, I believe) listed for our cars don't have a y-pipe, and I believe also don't have A.I.R. tubes or the O2 sensor bung. The Super Comp shorties, 2055's, have the y-pipe, A.I.R. tubes, O2 bung, and a CARB EO tag welded on the #1 pipe. For obvious reasons, the Super Comps are more than twice as expensive, but worth it when you figure what you'll have to do to get the Comps plumbed in.
Hope that helps.
10-31-2001, 09:06 PM
#9
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I would agree with five7 on the order you should switch out parts with one exception. I would go with the intake at the same time as the cam swap. The intake is already off the engine and it would be the least expensive piece to buy. Edelbrock Performer or Weiand action plus are both good intakes and emissions legal. good luck
10-31-2001, 11:31 PM
#10
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Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: LS1/LQ4
Transmission: 4L60E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
In reality, I threw "order" out the window and I'm going for all of them in one shot.
Not often I can swing that.
Of all the restrictions, though, I'd say the intake is the least offender. It's also the easiest to do. But, you have to take it off for two of the other three items, so "same time" does make a lot of sense.
Not often I can swing that.
Of all the restrictions, though, I'd say the intake is the least offender. It's also the easiest to do. But, you have to take it off for two of the other three items, so "same time" does make a lot of sense.
11-01-2001, 01:25 AM
#11
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Car: 1986 Sport Coupé
Engine: 305-4v
Transmission: 700R4 and TransGo2
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by five7kid:
As for headers, the Hooker Competition shorties (p/n 2460, I believe) listed for our cars don't have a y-pipe, and I believe also don't have A.I.R. tubes or the O2 sensor bung. The Super Comp shorties, 2055's, have the y-pipe, A.I.R. tubes, O2 bung, and a CARB EO tag welded on the #1 pipe. For obvious reasons, the Super Comps are more than twice as expensive, but worth it when you figure what you'll have to do to get the Comps plumbed in.
Hope that helps.</font>
As for headers, the Hooker Competition shorties (p/n 2460, I believe) listed for our cars don't have a y-pipe, and I believe also don't have A.I.R. tubes or the O2 sensor bung. The Super Comp shorties, 2055's, have the y-pipe, A.I.R. tubes, O2 bung, and a CARB EO tag welded on the #1 pipe. For obvious reasons, the Super Comps are more than twice as expensive, but worth it when you figure what you'll have to do to get the Comps plumbed in.
Hope that helps.</font>
The Competition Shorties DO have the O2 bung, so that is not a worry if you can get away without the air tubes.
11-01-2001, 01:09 PM
#12
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Car: 1986 Z28
Engine: 355
Transmission: th400
Headers. Gears (3.73) a posi.
As far as the heads went. I used the stock 416's with a mild port job, pocket porting, bowl blending,and a 3 angle valve job. remember to put decent springs, and new guids in. should cost round 500 bucks
rebuild the bottom end. my 86 Lg4 had flattops with 4 vavle releifs with the cleanup deckjob it ran a shade over 9.5 compression. I ran a performer intake portmatched to the heads.
Ran a stock computer, and the freshly rebuilt jet.
I ran a summit verison of the edelbrock cam
If i wer going to have a cruising car i'd probalby build the identical motor, but with the compe xe 250 h cam instead
with a vette converter it stalled 2400 and handled everthing stock short of an ls1.
the computer isn't going to notice that lil cam in there, but it should really fly.
As far as the heads went. I used the stock 416's with a mild port job, pocket porting, bowl blending,and a 3 angle valve job. remember to put decent springs, and new guids in. should cost round 500 bucks
rebuild the bottom end. my 86 Lg4 had flattops with 4 vavle releifs with the cleanup deckjob it ran a shade over 9.5 compression. I ran a performer intake portmatched to the heads.
Ran a stock computer, and the freshly rebuilt jet.
I ran a summit verison of the edelbrock cam
If i wer going to have a cruising car i'd probalby build the identical motor, but with the compe xe 250 h cam instead
with a vette converter it stalled 2400 and handled everthing stock short of an ls1.
the computer isn't going to notice that lil cam in there, but it should really fly.
11-01-2001, 08:51 PM
#13
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Car: 83Z28 HO
Engine: Magnacharged Dart Little M 408
Transmission: G Force 5 speed
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" w/Detroit Trutrac
I run a Compu-cam, and no complaints whatsoever. I would also like to get a set of TES headers, with O2 bung, but without stupid air manifold hookups.
I love the power it has, but the gears are so low, it makes for a busy time shifting around town.
Go with the flat top 9.5:1 flat top pistons, and get the headers. I think that would be the biggest "bang for the buck" for starters.
------------------
-1983 L69 Camaro Z28 305 H.O. (Bored .030 over,Teflon oil seals,Melling H.V. oil pump,Hyperetic pistons,chrome-moly rings,2040 Crane compu-cam) T-tops, 3:73 Open rear, BW T-5, Rebuilt E4ME 4 Barrel, Duel Snorkle Air Cleaner w/K&N Filter , Rhino Clutch, Crane 2040 Compu-cam, LS1 valve springs, porting, PST front end kit. Now for paint, interior, etc...etc.... Also:
2000 S10 4.3L 4WD LS
1995 Ford Thunderchicken, 4.6 V-8
I love the power it has, but the gears are so low, it makes for a busy time shifting around town.
Go with the flat top 9.5:1 flat top pistons, and get the headers. I think that would be the biggest "bang for the buck" for starters.
------------------
-1983 L69 Camaro Z28 305 H.O. (Bored .030 over,Teflon oil seals,Melling H.V. oil pump,Hyperetic pistons,chrome-moly rings,2040 Crane compu-cam) T-tops, 3:73 Open rear, BW T-5, Rebuilt E4ME 4 Barrel, Duel Snorkle Air Cleaner w/K&N Filter , Rhino Clutch, Crane 2040 Compu-cam, LS1 valve springs, porting, PST front end kit. Now for paint, interior, etc...etc.... Also:
2000 S10 4.3L 4WD LS
1995 Ford Thunderchicken, 4.6 V-8
11-02-2001, 08:42 AM
#14
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thanks for the info guys, this oughta keep me busy for quite a while - not only deciphering all the info, but actually attempting to do such things. oh yeah, one last question - i've heard that after putting headers on, the last two spark plugs have to be removed from under the car - they are a pain in the a$$ as it is stock - how much harder is it?
11-02-2001, 09:19 AM
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Car: 04 GTO
Engine: LS1
Transmission: M12 T56
I just wanted to correct the people in this post that siad they had cams that weren't compatible with the computer. I'd venture that is not the case and your problem is lying elsewhere. I've seen a stock L69 computer/carb/distributor run a 305 w/ a comp 280 magnum in it (230/230 on a 110 LSA.) It was WAY too much cam to be sure, and only made like 12" of vacuum at ~1k idle speed, but the computer couldn't have cared less.
And if CCCS doesn't complain about big hairy animal cams like that, then i'm sure that any remotely streetable cam would also be just fine.
------------------
Ed Maher - Moderator @ The TPI & Carb Boards
92 Z28 Convertible - Quasar blue / Tan top
305 TPI A4 2.73 - 14.7 @ 93.6
Stock except ported plenum and dual cats
-=ICON Motorsports=-
- Definitely prototypes, high powered mutants of some kind. Too weird to live, too cool to die
And if CCCS doesn't complain about big hairy animal cams like that, then i'm sure that any remotely streetable cam would also be just fine.
------------------
Ed Maher - Moderator @ The TPI & Carb Boards
92 Z28 Convertible - Quasar blue / Tan top
305 TPI A4 2.73 - 14.7 @ 93.6
Stock except ported plenum and dual cats
-=ICON Motorsports=-
- Definitely prototypes, high powered mutants of some kind. Too weird to live, too cool to die
11-02-2001, 06:51 PM
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Car: 1986 Sport Coupé
Engine: 305-4v
Transmission: 700R4 and TransGo2
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 86-red_dawg:
thanks for the info guys, this oughta keep me busy for quite a while - not only deciphering all the info, but actually attempting to do such things. oh yeah, one last question - i've heard that after putting headers on, the last two spark plugs have to be removed from under the car - they are a pain in the a$$ as it is stock - how much harder is it?</font>
thanks for the info guys, this oughta keep me busy for quite a while - not only deciphering all the info, but actually attempting to do such things. oh yeah, one last question - i've heard that after putting headers on, the last two spark plugs have to be removed from under the car - they are a pain in the a$$ as it is stock - how much harder is it?</font>
11-04-2001, 12:35 PM
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I have a 84 Z28 with the LG4 and put in the comp cams XE250 and love it! Mine's non-computer though.
I also have Dynomax headers and I can get some of the plugs with the ratchet/socket - the others I just put on the socket and use a 11/16" (?) open end wrench to loosen them up and twist them out by hand... all from the top!
I also have Dynomax headers and I can get some of the plugs with the ratchet/socket - the others I just put on the socket and use a 11/16" (?) open end wrench to loosen them up and twist them out by hand... all from the top!
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