kingmonkey

So how would one do this? I know you can get your car running on 85% ethanol but as it is I'd rather use 100% and forget the gas. I've heard horror stories about switching to ethanol messing up your existing motor BUT I'm going to be putting a fresh one in my car.

So what all do I need to do to the new motor and fuel system to get it to run 100% home distilled ethanol? If there is a resource on the net or in a book please point me in that direction.

Thanks!

Mitchell

ME Leigh

Alcohol will screwup a lot of stuff in an engine. It will ruin hoses, rubber and gaskets really quickly.

Why do you want to do this? Alcohol is more expensive than gas, it has less energy and causes lots of headaches.

But if you wanted to do it you would have to get a special license from you county/city/state agencies and the ATF to be producing that much moonshine. You would have to use parts that would live in a alcohol environment. And you would have to raise the compression to gain back alittle of the energy lost from using a less energy dense fuel.

kingmonkey

Dude...obviously it doesn't screw a lot of stuff up and has around the same amount of energy as gas. It may be a little lower than gas but from what I understand if you adjust the timing and air/fuel mixture you get the same performance.

Drag racers have been using and still use alchohol to run their cars. So, obviously it works for them then it would work for me.

Peace.

Apeiron

Methanol is used in drag racing, not ethanol.

rx7speed

two different types of alchy.
one is bad for rubber, seals and stuff the other isn't
can't remember which is which though

as far as energy it actually has quite a bit less energy
another thing is you have to do more then just a minor adjusting to of the a/f. alchy you have to use around whatI think 4-7:1 a/f ratio vs the 14-15:1 af ratio of gas

another thing is on a mostly stock car your not going to gain much but prolly lose some by using alchy


most the ppl who use alky are running 13, 14, 16 or so to 1 compression. or maybe they are running close to 30 pounds of boost on the motor and normal gas wouldn't tolerate that much pressure without going BOOM.


soo all in all if you are trying to get any decent gas mileage your out of luck with alchy

if your trying to gain power your out of luck also unless you are highly modded and I don't mean just a little larger bump stick with a mild set of heads

Streetiron85

Ethanol is the stuff that's easy on your plastic parts. It's grain alchohol.
Methanol is highly toxic. I just read something that said it'll make you blind and crazy just from touching it too much. Damage to the nervous system.
I have some friends who've actually tried 100% ethanol, as well as in a mix with gasoline. It makes a great octane booster, in fact it works best with high compression, 9:1 min up to 15:1 or so.
Detroit did some tests in cooperation with the EPA and the petroleum industry back in the early 80s, and did such a good job of screwing things up by using 8.5:1 CR, that they never took a second look at ethanol as a fuel. At 8.5:1 CR one of the combustion by products is formaldehyde, but at 10:1 or better, ethanol is considered a clean air fuel, like propane. It also has a lower combustion temp than gasoline, you can use a smaller radiator.
There's tons of info on it, but you'd probably have to really dig to find anything on thirdgen specific apps, especially with EFI.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It is quite a bit lower than gasoline. You have to increase the MR significantly, and in order to gain the power benefit, you have to increase CR significantly. It isn't a simple change-over if you want the complete benefits. MPG will be much less.

It also has the undesireable characteristic of absorbing a lot of water. Storage has to be done very carefully or you'll mess it up.

kingmonkey

The only reason I really bring this up is because in Brazil over 50% of their vehicles run on 100% ethanol. Now, if a country like Brazil can do it then why the hell can't we? That's my point. It'd be better than killing our planet and making those damn Arabs richer and have so much control over our country.

Peace.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

We could.

Did you realize Brazilian cars have a small gasoline tank for use in starting the engine when cold?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

....and that's in Brazilian cold...

I'm not going to dignify this with an answer, I figured this thread would get locked anyway. Just out of curiosity, is this going to be a weekend car, or do you plan on home distilling enough ethanol to drive your car daily, ie. 15,000mi a year? Sounds like a bit of a chore....

Perry Faircloth

i'm new at this site but how much real damage will ethanol do to an older but street built 350 1979 4 bolt main 600 cfm carb motor just wondering?

Keegan84

iTrader: (1)

The ignorance, please someone lock this thread before it spirals out of control.

Ronnie Brennan

U know.... if you are looking for an alternative that is cheaper than gas.... you could always run propane....... wouldnt be able to drive your car a lot lol but it'd be a LOT cheaper and has been done before. I had also considered running some lines and shoot propane instead of NOS... It does the same thing and is a lot less expensive and more readily available.

Probably never will do this but it is feasable

Ronnie Brennan

getting back to this propane thing, before people here go all nuts, there are cars that were built and run by propane in the 70's - 80's

The only issue with running propane is that it does burn extremely hot and is one of the issues why the cars didn't do well... The fuel was extremely cheap but the savings was outweighed by the constant repairs to the engines.

305sbc

iTrader: (3)

+1

383RAT

Well, kingmonkey if you really want to run ethanol go for it. There are somethings that have to be considered though.
Ethanol has roughly 30% less energy over gasoline but it does have an octane rating of 112. If you build a motor compression ratio for gasoline like 10:1 you are going to have to use roughly 30% more fuel to go the same distance as gas OR build the motor with higher compression that ethanol can take advantages of but you will be stuck using at least E85 if you do. I've been told thats around 13:1 to 14:1 but I'd talk to the motor builder first to get that ratio right .
REPLACE YOUR FUEL PUMP! Gasoline is a dielectric while ethanol is conductive. Last thing you want is an arc inside your gas tank. Replace your steel fuel lines with stainless steel. Eliminate the steel gas tank and change it to a compatible plastic or Stainless. I'll assume your using new injectors since it is a fresh motor and the o-ring on the injectors they have now should be compatible. Be sure not to use magnesium or incompatible rubber(s) parts anywhere where the fuel might be. Also if you live where it is really cold and you're doing 100% ethanol you are going to have a hell of a time starting your car if you don't preheat the fuel and block. If you are going to make your home made fuel be sure that you use oil with acid neutralizers and you will most likely need to run chemical additive to kill any bacteria that may grow in your fuel due to water that will be in your ethanol (read reason for water bellow) If that bacteria gets going it will clog the fuel filter and fuel lines.
As far as making your own fuel that will be a bigger problem. Government considers that drinking alcohol. You will have to get permits and stuff and it will be taxed like drinking alcohol. Ethanol plants get around that tax buy denaturing the alcohol. I don't know if the government will let a private citizen do that. Also alcohol has an affinity for water in fact it forms an azeotropic bond. Without a molecular sieve you will only be able to achieve 92% water free ethanol. Ethanol with that much water will make any engine run like crap by the way.
As far as the farmers and the ethanol community speaking about how good it is for environment it is it a bunch of bull crap. Every bushel of corn (8 dry gallons) produces 17 pounds of carbon dioxide. Every bushel of corn only makes 2.6 gallons on a perfectly running ethanol plant. Actual is around 2.4 gallons. Ethanol is a HUGE contributor to green house gasses. The only time ethanol doesn't contribute to green house emissions is when it is actually burned in your car.
As far as not spending US money over seas I support you their but for different reasons.
Oh I used to work in an ethanol plant. Without government funding ethanol would not be able to compete with oil. In fact most ethanol plants make little to no money on the ethanol even with government funding they make it on the dried distilled grains (whats left of the corn) they sell to cattle/pig farms. That last part is not particularly relevant unless the government decides to quit funding or a different fuel cheaper additive comes about in the near future which may leave you with a useless motor if you build it only for ethanol and was using it as a daily driver.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Our education system used to produce people who put men on the moon. Now this.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

It's easy to mock the King. Very easy. But maybe he could explain how he ended up thinking like this. Inquiring minds want to know. A little.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

guys, kingmonkey posted this almost 7 years ago and hasn't been back since.

Perry, we don't know if your asking about running pure ethanol or a mixture.
with the 10% ethanol fuel vs pure gasoline we are stuck with right now, you can expect lower performance and fuel mileage.
it breaks rust loose in fuel systems and rubber fuel hoses don't last like they should. if left sitting and exposed to air, it breaks down pretty quick, like whats sitting in your carburetor right now.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Maybe he drank some of his own alcohol and can't see to type.

Vader

In case anyone is wondering, it can be, has been, and will continue to be done. My neighbor's '81 Corvette has a 385 SBC running 13.25:1 and E-85 through an alky carb. It tends to go lean on cold starts. I imagine that 100% ethanol would be a really tough start in cooler weather, a little like the old Deere R series diesels, or the Kohler kerosene engines.

Anyway, his car runs decent once it's at temperature, or, at least it did until his aluminum rockers **** the bed this past fall.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

Vader, something i've been wondering about.
do you know how fast E-85 goes bad like if its sitting in a carb?

Jabpir8

Hi,
Got a 92 Roadmaster Wagon with 350 ci TBI.
Today it is almost stock except dual exhaust system with headers and EBL flasher.

In my country the E85 (almost 30% gas and 70% ethanol in winter to avoid freezing and 15%/85% in summer) cost 0.9 EURO Vs. 1.6 EURO for regular gas Liter these days.
My car drinks 15.5 Liter for 60 miles (around 15-16 MPG)
But I don't want to buy a 4 banger and want to keep my daily drive V8 US style !!!

one friend has a new European car which is flexfuel (E85).

I heard the new Impala 3.5 VVT also has an option to run E85 so this is not that complex I guess.

Because I have one gas station close to my village I had in mind last week that maybe I could take good advantage of the EBL flasher to get an ignition and VE profile set for the E85.

If gas price raises to 2 EURO per Liter (2.65 USD) then It will allow me to still drive every day, even for less money than before coz E85 is less taxed by the State

I plan to rebuild heads and change the camshaft soon. Then I could possibly change the two injectors, fuel regulator, fuel pump and fuel lines.
Then I have no idea if the plastic tank also need to be replaced ? (how to find out ? read the stamp on it for material composition ?)

Have any recommendation for this mod ?

rusty vango

racers build maybe two or three engines per season ,so for them alcohols corrosive properties arent a concern.but on a street engine.its a diffrent story.forget ethonol as a fuel.drink it instead!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

the issue with ethanol going bad is that is absorbs water like a sponge becasue it's an alcohol. It shouldn't leave as much varnish behind as gasoline, but unless it's in a perfectly sealed cnotainer it's gonan suck up alcohol. I'm not well versed in carbs, but since they are mechanical I bet they will let moist air get to the fuel sitting in them.

Ethanol does not create a corrosion issue, your thinking methanol. Ethanol is a great fuel for racing, cheap, and e85 is like 106 octane. It works fine in street cars as well, just at reduced fuel mileage