SSC

Ok im going for some mobil 1 syn, found some 5 qt jugs for 17.34$ Should I use engine flush to rid the system of dino juice or just change the oil like normal? How does the syn oil react if theres still a little bit of flush in the system different from regular oil?
thanks
SSC

[This message has been edited by SSC (edited July 09, 2001).]

DartByU

Just change it like normal, the oils are compatible with each other, stay away from engine flushes, they will loosen all the crud in your engine and plug up the oil pump pick up screen and little oil passages. I have been using Mobil 1 since my car had 5,000 miles on it, it has 140,000 on it now and still runs like new and does not burn or leak a drop, it's good stuff!!!

------------------
92 Camaro RS 5.0 5-Speed (Quasar Blue)
T-Tops
14" Open Air Cleaner
3.08 Posi-trac
Edelbrock TBI Intake
Crane cam
Ported & polished stock heads 3 angle valve job
HyperTech Chip
SLP Headers (Ceramic Coated)
UltraFlo cat-back exhaust

74 Dodge Dart Sport 360 (11.2 1/4 mile)

2000 Dodge 1500 Ram Sport

[This message has been edited by DartByU (edited July 09, 2001).]

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

SSC, how many miles on dino juice?

Dart, since you had only 5k on your ride when you switched to syn, how does your experience qualify you for high-mileage advice?

The very criticism you had for the flush is exactly why it should be used. If you have sludge & varnish left over from thousands of miles of petroleum oil use, it will be quickly loosened by the synthetic and contaminate it, possibly even causing the plugging you describe. Using a flush will loosen them and allow you to drain them out before you put in the synthetic.

The post-SF oils have not been as bad about these deposit formations, so it is not as critical as it used to be. Take a look under your oil fill cap: If you see deposits on the cap or the rockers underneath, then use the flush. If not, you're probably safe not using it.

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/'87 LB9 block, ZZ3 cam and intake, World 305 heads, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat & 3" cat-back).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7 CR forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 600 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

DartByU

I'm just trying to pass on some imformation that I know about, a buddy of mine put some of that motor flush in his 70 Mustang that at the time was running perfect, he just wanted to clean it out, within 2 days of him flushing it and putting new oil and filter in, the engine seized up, when he took it apart the oil pump pickup and lots of the passages were pluged up, and the oil pan had about 4" of sludge in the bottom of it that the flush had washed out of the engine and would not drain out of the drain plug. I would just change the oil 2 or 3 times in the next 4,000 or 5,000 miles and let the Mobil 1 clean it a little at a time.

------------------
92 Camaro RS 5.0 5-Speed (Quasar Blue)
T-Tops
14" Open Air Cleaner
3.08 Posi-trac
Edelbrock TBI Intake
Crane cam
Ported & polished stock heads 3 angle valve job
HyperTech Chip
SLP Headers (Ceramic Coated)
UltraFlo cat-back exhaust

74 Dodge Dart Sport 360 (11.2 1/4 mile)

2000 Dodge 1500 Ram Sport

SSC

Its about to hit 80k thats why Im wanting to use syntetic. The engine is clean, I flushed it when I bought it, also changed the cam so I know its clean "no build up" just varnished.

Dart, I've heard about people that have had the problem that your friend had. What brand/kind of oil was he using?
SSC


[This message has been edited by SSC (edited July 09, 2001).]

SSC

GRRRR, On my way to work I was goig to get the oil and it was all gone all 11 jugs!!!!
But they do have "castrol syntec" for the same price whats the opinion on that kind of oil???
SSC

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Wait and get the Mobil 1.

Or go to www.amsoil.com and get some good stuff.

As for flush plugging the screen, in 18 years I've seen one engine do it. The car literally was rescued from the junkyard, had not been well maintained (the old SF oil to boot), and had been in a flood. 6 months after the flush and synthetic fill and about 8k miles, it finally plugged the screen and died. Without the flush, it probably would have been 3 months. Without synthetic, it probably would have lasted a month (all speculation, of course).

If your engine is clean, then go ahead and put the synthetic in straight.

SSC

Thanks for the replys guys. I guess I'll wait until they restock the mobil 1. I think next round I'll try some amsoil.
Thanks again.
SSC

BOWTIROC

Never Ever Flush an engine, over time an engine builds up deposits around the rings which actually help them seal.

------------------
Black 89 IROC...355, Solid Crower Cam, TFS heads.
12.0 @ 120.3mph with a 1.9 60ft...all motor

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Brian K

Don't flsuh an old engine.. I it would be better to remove your pan and clean it out over flushing the darn thing... I used synthetic in my 86 with 180K on it.. No problems.. I switched over at about 90K. I now change the oil every 4000 instead of 3000 and it seems happier with Mobil 1 Synthetic.

Jza

LOL . Those jugs get snatched up so quick. They're always out of them around here. The other day I was shopping for some other stuff and I saw some up; I bought a couple even though I'd just done an oil change two days before! ..just because I know when I want them they'll be out. The clerk said that they're not a regular item, but people are always asking about them.

Steves ZZ5

Don't worry about flushing your engine.....Ohh, and don't worry about flushing your engine....And one more thing, don't worry about flushing your engine..

There is no need to flush your engine, and the slight "cleansing" effect that a synthetic oil has will not immediately clog oil passages or filters. It's a very mild characteristic of synthetic oil that happens over an extended period of time. Just switch to synthetic and monitor for minor leaks periodically.

The wonderful thing about synthetics is the extended drain intervals. You can go up to two or three times longer between oil changes (although I personally feel better not going more than 6000 miles on my daily driver with it). If you DO go for an extended changeout interval, MAKE SURE you at least change your oil filter EVERY 3000 miles, and top the oil level off after the filter change.

Wal-mart has the five quart jugs here too...I stocked up since ExxonMobil doesn't give me a discount on my oil...grrrrrrr. Check other Wal-marts around you, and you might get lucky.

------------------
86 Trans Am WS6 Black with tinted windows, ZZ4, Mini-ram, true duals, LT4 HotCam, AFR 195 heads.
***Too many other mods to mention***

"In the future, cities will become deserts,
roads will become battlefields, and the hope of mankind
will appear as a stranger" The Road Warrior

SSC

Well I finaly found a 5qt jug last one at the walmart accross town !!yea!! I am going to flush the engine to make sure its clean. The last time I flushed it, I beleive 76k it took off quite a bit of varnsih from the valve train "had to change vlavecover gaskets again two months after the cam change" it was quite a bit cleaner than before. I just want to make sure nothing will contaminate the system. Im planning on doing the 6000 mile run with 1qt and an oil filter in the 3000 mark unless it starts to burn or leak."God forbid" If she blows she blows good excuse for the 327 buildup.
Thanks again guys and Jza stop coming up to Co and swiping all the Mobil 1
Thanks again!
SSC

giovanhalen

Advertising must really work judging by various comments i have seen on how great mobil 1 is, like it is the only good synthetic oil. Amsoil was the first i heard of way before mobil 1. Parts america sells havoline synthetic for less than $3 a quart. I believe that amsoil,havoline,valvoline,pennzoil,castrol,etc. all make good synthetic oil.

greearhr

I like Castrol! 5w50 year round on 4,000 miles changes.

Consider this: when you "flush" an engine you are running it on cleaner instead of oil. It doesn't get any lube! I saw an engine freeze up from that in about 30 seconds. I've had good luck using Marvel Mystery oil in old engines. Put in a quart after it uses one and change after a couple hundred miles. Also pour some down the carb.
It isn't quite so harsh on things. Heck, I even rubbed it on the old ladies arthritus.

Beartracks

86Trans Am

Steve, sorry man i'm going to have to disagree with you on the extended change intervals with synthetic. I just started here at wyoming tech and just covered lubrication systems this week. Here is what we learned

The 3000 mile intercal is technically the time for extreme conditions, under normal conditions typical oil can last 4-5-6 thousand miles. The oil doesnt go bad, the additives in the oil are what breaks down, just as the chemical comounds in the synthetic break down. Synthetic oil can says you can go 6-10000 miles, while you can you are not protecting the engine as well as you should. There are still particals that are cleaned out with an oil change, woops, i have to go back to class.....

however, if you are going to wait, like you said, at least change the filter.

------------------
1986 Trans Am
305 TPI
"If it's not one thing, it's another!"
http://www2.hanover.edu/hierlmeier

Steves ZZ5

86,

You just confirmed my statement in a round about way several times. I totally agree with you and you are correct in saying that a typical "conventional" oil will last much longer than the 3000 mile change interval which is meant for the extreme duty cycle use of an engine...Car manufacturers stress this for warranty reasons, and pretty much use it as a norm for change-outs. Also, most oil companies stress this too, because if you think about it, the more we change our oil the more money they rake in.

Also, you're very correct in saying that it's the additives that break down in a conventional oil. With this break-down, you end up with a slurry of corrosive byproducts...Combustion gasses mix with the zinc/ash byproducts to form acidic conditions in our engines.

However, Most synthetics as in the case of Mobil 1 use no additives in their oil. Since there are no additives, you don't risk the oil mixture turning corrosive after several thousand miles. The synthetics do not break down anywhere near as much as the conventionals.

With conventionals, not only do you have additive break-down, but you actually incur what is called "Base Stock Breakdown" Base stock is exactly what it says....the base stock, no additives at all being included in the make-up. Conventional oils are of a very, shall I say 'crude', make-up. The molecular structure of a conventional has a varying molecular design much like a spiral design if looked at physically. These molecules form chains of lighter and heavier ends of hydrocarbons. when you have varying size hydrocarbon chains in a base stock, you have less lubricating ability, as some of the chains will slip easily through shear surfaces between metal, and some of the larger ones will not slip as easily through. Also, as you heat up a conventional hydrocarbon chain, it will shift shape to a varying degree totally dependent on its hydrocarbon make-up. Some of the spiral-like chains will stretch out more than others, once again causing loss of complete functional lubricity. As far as the base stock breakdown, the lighter ends (composed of a molecular combination of say Pentane and hexane bound hydrocarbons perhaps), will tend to cook off during the extreme temps of extended engine operation, and the heavier ends may end up as a sludge in an engine. This leaves only the more stable middle-of-the-road chains to actually do the lubrication work....That is the true meaning of oil breakdown.

A synthetic however, does not have a spiral type hydrocarbon make-up unlike the conventionals. Think of it more like a straight string of pearls with no varying size pearls. the conventional oil would look like a wavey twisted string of pearls with varying size pearls. A synthetic has a much more uniform base stock, and instead of having a varying range of lighter and heavier ends, it retains only the middle-of-the-road hydrocarbon chains that do the lubricating, so no burning off of the light ends and sludging of the heavier ends after several thousand miles.

You answered the question when you said there are still particles in the oil due to engine wear, and to make sure to at least change the oil filter every 3000 miles just as I said. Now, remember that we are dealing with a much more refined synthetic, so there will be less particles after 3000 miles than there would be with a conventional. Conventionals lubricate, and arent as volatile just as mentioned above...remember? I still agree though, change that filter out after 3K.

To sum things up.

1) synthetics inherently last longer than conventionals due to their chemical make-up.

2) they will last more miles than a conventional.

3) they don't break down nearly as bad as conventionals.

4) the lubricating characteristics are much better and uniform throughout heat ranges than a conventional.

5) There aren't as many corrosive combustion byproducts in a used synthetic...(virtually none).

6) and mostly, you MUST change the filter out frequently regardless of the type of oil used.

It would be nice to see what your instructor has to say about these comments. I think he may totally agree.

Let me know if there's something not agreed upon, I'm open to rebuttals.


[This message has been edited by Steves ZZ5 (edited July 12, 2001).]

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

(Should I say something, or just bite my lip - again.)

Okay, I'll say it.

I cannot believe the BS being poured into heads already filled with mush at "tech" schools. 86Trans, you are saying exactly what I learned NOT be true 18 years ago. I can only conclude that there is no motivation in the repair industry to tell the truth. If what they are "teaching" you was true, I would have ruined about 2 dozen engines since I started using synthetic 18 years ago, changing it typically once a year with a filter change at half the oil change interval. In fact, I have not worn out any engine using AMSOIL in that time, some changed over at their first oil change after leaving the factory, others, like my Camaro, being changed over at 123k miles (using flush, by the way). I've done several 100k+ changeovers, using flush, and the one year/25k mile oil change w/filter change at half that interval on each and every one after the changeover. All I can say is, the earlier the better.

Guys, don't try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I am a "student" of this science, and an engineer to boot. I know I'm opening up myself to flames, making claims that don't sound any more valid than others' propaganda, but please, trust me on this one.

Steve, I could disagree with you on many points, but the biggest is "no additives". Nobody makes an engine oil without additives, the question is what kind and how much. The typical additive that breaks down in petroleum-based oils is the viscosity index improver, a polymer, which is "typically" used more extensively in petroleum-based oil than in synthetics. However, Castrol Syntec 5W50 has more VI improvers that typical petroleum 10W40's (which GM banned from their light duty diesels due to the breakdown and subsequent ruiniation of the roller lifters). You are correct, though, that the molecular structure of the typical synthetic base is more uniform and stable than a refined petroleum oil.

Get with it and and least embrace the technology of the 80's, people. Stop regurgitating information that was incorrect when it was first taught as gospel 40 years ago (at least then it was just misunderstood).

Steves ZZ5

Believe me, I know alot about synthetics, and Chemical Engineering to boot.


[This message has been edited by Steves ZZ5 (edited July 12, 2001).]

giovanhalen

Some guys love to waste time and money! Maybe they think the more often they change oil and filters the faster their car will go. Some people never change their oil they just add the cheaoest oil they can buy when they need it and there engines last 100,000+ miles. So if you change your synthetic oil and filter every year or 25,000 miles whichever comes first i bekieve you will find that your engine will last at least that long.